Negative account balance [merged repayment of SEN overdraft thread]
Sep 28, 2007, 4:48 pm
#61
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: A Sight For Roll Eyes
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Posts: 5,461
Sep 28, 2007, 8:17 pm
#62
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Nr. Zurich
Programs: LH SEN, IHG Platinum, Marriott Lifetime Gold
Posts: 1,610
The term "morally bankrupt" comes to mind.....
Sep 29, 2007, 2:46 am
#63
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Eurozone
Programs: LH SEN, HH Gold
Posts: 3,002
You refrain from reading the answers you do not want to read and I repeat it a very last time in particular for you:
...
But rest assured: I will never ever borrow YOU anything. The risk of enterering intoi a discussion that I gave it to you as a present is evident.
- The value of the miles was always knwon because M&M always sold miles to consumers. If you took an overdraft of 10k miles you always knew what you had to pay if you had to buy the miles to redeposit them
...
But rest assured: I will never ever borrow YOU anything. The risk of enterering intoi a discussion that I gave it to you as a present is evident.
No worries: I want not to borrow anything from you, for fear that it would become scratched and you would mysteriously place a higher cash value on it than originally conceived or demand an immediate replacement while I'm standing naked in a sauna. And thank you for basically calling me a thief, even when I've long repayed M&M.
Sep 29, 2007, 3:02 am
#64
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Capetown
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Plat, IHG and Hilton Diamond, LH SEN, BA Gold
Posts: 10,167
As long as you are not standing naked in a lounge like this guy (see there: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=740982) it could be worst. However, it appears that you are standing bare naked with your opinion as the voice of the people appears to be "loans have to be paid back".
Allthoug reading and understanding every word you simply do not read what you do not want to read. At the very beginning I said: "You (not personally) got something as an overdraft which is a loan and all kind of evasive arguments are used not to repay the loan." (Emphasis added) Nobody is calling you a thief, neither "basically" nor otherwise. And certainly everybody appreciates that you paid back and did not use evasive arguments like others.
Allthoug reading and understanding every word you simply do not read what you do not want to read. At the very beginning I said: "You (not personally) got something as an overdraft which is a loan and all kind of evasive arguments are used not to repay the loan." (Emphasis added) Nobody is calling you a thief, neither "basically" nor otherwise. And certainly everybody appreciates that you paid back and did not use evasive arguments like others.
Sep 29, 2007, 3:11 am
#65
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Eurozone
Programs: LH SEN, HH Gold
Posts: 3,002
As long as you are not standing naked in a lounge like this guy (see there: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=740982) it could be worst. However, it appears that you are standing bare naked with your opinion as the voice of the people appears to be "loans have to be paid back".
Allthoug reading and understanding every word you simply do not read what you do not want to read. At the very beginning I said: "You (not personally) got something as an overdraft which is a loan and all kind of evasive arguments are used not to repay the loan." (Emphasis added) Nobody is calling you a thief, neither "basically" nor otherwise. And certainly everybody appreciates that you paid back and did not use evasive arguments like others.
Allthoug reading and understanding every word you simply do not read what you do not want to read. At the very beginning I said: "You (not personally) got something as an overdraft which is a loan and all kind of evasive arguments are used not to repay the loan." (Emphasis added) Nobody is calling you a thief, neither "basically" nor otherwise. And certainly everybody appreciates that you paid back and did not use evasive arguments like others.
My thief referral has to do with your personal wish to not loan me anything (because of my thief potential(?)), and nothing to do with your boldfaced sentence. Please quit accusing me of not being able to read and comprehend.
Can we all not just let this go away...
Sep 29, 2007, 9:34 am
#66
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: FRA,HAM
Programs: M&M
Posts: 944
LH lent you miles at its discretion!
First I am happy that I am not a member of Miles and More.
Miles and More, like many other FFPs, is a courtsey program which benifits both the airline and the customers. It is designed to reward loyal customers.
If LH had lent you 50,000 miles, it would have assumed you would keep earning miles at Miles and More based on the previous flight history.
I think this whole matter rather concerns ethics than legality.
Miles and More, like many other FFPs, is a courtsey program which benifits both the airline and the customers. It is designed to reward loyal customers.
If LH had lent you 50,000 miles, it would have assumed you would keep earning miles at Miles and More based on the previous flight history.
I think this whole matter rather concerns ethics than legality.
HI!
I was wondering if Lufthansa is screwing with me. I have an negative balance of 52600 miles, meaning that I made som overdraft before the new rules got in power. Now i got a letter that says that I have to pay for the miles despite touching the account since 2004. Now, do you think that Lufthansa has the right to charge my credit card. They can't just change the rules and then say that I have to pay.
What do you think?
I was wondering if Lufthansa is screwing with me. I have an negative balance of 52600 miles, meaning that I made som overdraft before the new rules got in power. Now i got a letter that says that I have to pay for the miles despite touching the account since 2004. Now, do you think that Lufthansa has the right to charge my credit card. They can't just change the rules and then say that I have to pay.
What do you think?
Last edited by flytofly; Sep 29, 2007 at 9:42 am
Sep 30, 2007, 12:30 am
#67
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Programs: LH SEN, EK Gold, Sixt Plat, HHonors Gold
Posts: 157
And people are still surprised why Lufthansa M&M (and others) then constantly "enhance" their rules ?
Sep 30, 2007, 1:16 am
#68
Join Date: Oct 2004
Programs: Darth Vader of AMEX, A ladys best friend of Hilton, Pt78 of SPG, *G ,*S, ANA VIP
Posts: 3,930
my friend got it too.
he used the miles in 2003 and asked me what to do.
i told him to pay back the miles if possible, but he said that in 2003 he was told that he doenst have to pay it back.
i think if you used them for a great trip etc. and you have lost SEN you could pay them back.
this would be the right thing.
the people who think they are screwed now thought that they are "smarter " than LH and could use the miles and walk away.
good morning , this is the same as everything in the past " die vergangenheit holt einen immer ein"
dp
i told him to pay back the miles if possible, but he said that in 2003 he was told that he doenst have to pay it back.
i think if you used them for a great trip etc. and you have lost SEN you could pay them back.
this would be the right thing.
the people who think they are screwed now thought that they are "smarter " than LH and could use the miles and walk away.
good morning , this is the same as everything in the past " die vergangenheit holt einen immer ein"
dp
Sep 30, 2007, 12:33 pm
#69
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: bella italia
Programs: LH HON, AF FB Platinum
Posts: 633
Sep 30, 2007, 3:51 pm
#70
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: BRU
Programs: LH SEN, SN Gold, Eurostar Carte Blanche, BA, QF, AF
Posts: 6,856
Sep 30, 2007, 3:55 pm
#71
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2007
Programs: AA Plat, BMI Gold, Lufthansa Senator, SAS Gold, QF Bronze
Posts: 90
Face facts, Lufthansa is so dumb that it didn't expressly say how or how long it should take to pay off the points. As per the terms of the previous agreement I would have an 'unlimited' time to pay off the points. So wait until I die.
Sep 30, 2007, 4:34 pm
#72
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Point Place, Wisconsin
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I think you are talking a load of bol***ks.
Face facts, Lufthansa is so dumb that it didn't expressly say how or how long it should take to pay off the points. As per the terms of the previous agreement I would have an 'unlimited' time to pay off the points. So wait until I die.
Face facts, Lufthansa is so dumb that it didn't expressly say how or how long it should take to pay off the points. As per the terms of the previous agreement I would have an 'unlimited' time to pay off the points. So wait until I die.
See here too: "Farting in plane"
LH only offered the overdraft to SEN status holders.
Therefore it can be argued that once you lose you status you will have to pay back your overdraft and not "when you die".
Sep 30, 2007, 4:40 pm
#73
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: BRU
Programs: LH SEN, SN Gold, Eurostar Carte Blanche, BA, QF, AF
Posts: 6,856
Easy: Legal costs are reimbursed on the basis of statutory fees. Talking about a 1000 Euro claim you might get reimbursed 100 Euro legal fees. And you would not even find a lawyer from the suburbs to file a claim and go to court for 100 Euro. If they need to chase after 500 members, they need 500 law suits in the small claims court all over Germany. Don't know how many in other countries, in particular the UK. They would use one law (big) firm, because coordinating several law firm would increase the internal costs dramatically. Let every case only require 10 hours incl. briefs, travel to a hearing, the hearing itself. Minimum rate 250 Euro per hour. 2500 Euro per case. 1250000 Euro lawyers' fees. And getting reimbursed 50000. No thanks. This would consume any benefit, give bad press and destroy costumer relations.
It might very well cost 2,500 EUR or more to win one case, but only get them 1,000 EUR in revenue. But I think you will find that the willingness to pay of the next 499 freeloaders will be much higher if LH can point them to a court decision where someone else in the same position was ordered to pay. So, overall, committing to sue might be profitable to LH after all.
SmilingBoy.
Sep 30, 2007, 4:48 pm
#74
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Posts: 90
[QUOTE=Rambuster;8486966]Indeed, how nicely worded your posts are !
See here too: "Farting in plane" QUOTE]
What's wrong with the wording of that post. It was in proper english and understandable by all. All words were in correct order and tense. Unfortunatly I do not live in la la land and know people fart. Fart can either be a verb or noun for your information.
There was no specific wording. I would take the term to mean until death or for an unlimited period.
See here too: "Farting in plane" QUOTE]
What's wrong with the wording of that post. It was in proper english and understandable by all. All words were in correct order and tense. Unfortunatly I do not live in la la land and know people fart. Fart can either be a verb or noun for your information.
There was no specific wording. I would take the term to mean until death or for an unlimited period.
Sep 30, 2007, 4:48 pm
#75
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Point Place, Wisconsin
Programs: LH HON, BA Gold, EK Gold
Posts: 14,505
I don't necessarily disagree with your final conclusion, but I take issue with your calculation.
It might very well cost 2,500 EUR or more to win one case, but only get them 1,000 EUR in revenue. But I think you will find that the willingness to pay of the next 499 freeloaders will be much higher if LH can point them to a court decision where someone else in the same position was ordered to pay. So, overall, committing to sue might be profitable to LH after all.
SmilingBoy.
It might very well cost 2,500 EUR or more to win one case, but only get them 1,000 EUR in revenue. But I think you will find that the willingness to pay of the next 499 freeloaders will be much higher if LH can point them to a court decision where someone else in the same position was ordered to pay. So, overall, committing to sue might be profitable to LH after all.
SmilingBoy.
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