EC 261 "extraordinary circumstances" ?
Jan 27, 2019, 5:46 am
#16
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC GGL/GFl, HH Diamond, BW Diamond, Virgin Voyages Deep Blue Extra, Blue Peter Badge Holder
Posts: 3,937
Glad you got the compensation, I’ve held back until you did before posting a theoretical discussion points (which is not where we are at currently as @Often1 points out.
Had the weather not happened first but the technical fault, it was fixed and the push back occurred say 2 hours late, with the then delay caused by the extraordinary circumstances.
Had the weather not happened first but the technical fault, it was fixed and the push back occurred say 2 hours late, with the then delay caused by the extraordinary circumstances.
Jan 27, 2019, 8:39 am
#17
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,754
As per ECJ, only the technical delay would be considered to determine if compensation is payable:
See page 4 here: https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites...judgements.pdf
The judgment has also confirmed that any delay caused by an extraordinary circumstance needs to be
deducted from an overall delay in arrival in order to assess whether compensation must be paid.
deducted from an overall delay in arrival in order to assess whether compensation must be paid.
Jan 28, 2019, 6:41 am
#18
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: PVG, FRA, SEA, HEL
Programs: UA Premier Gold
Posts: 4,783
The reasoning is the following. As you write the aircraft left the gate 2 hours late due weather and/or third party (de-icing). As 8420PR describes, this is an "extraordinary circumstance", which is excluded for compensation by EU261/04.
At an airport with a lot of winter snow (e.g. HEL, DME etc.) airlines must add these times into their schedules.
If a certain event occurs several times during a year, it is not extraordinary anymore.
Snow at SIN or HKG -> this is extraordinary.
Third party screw-ups (no deicing fluids) is not always extraordinary either.
Feb 7, 2019, 8:34 am
#19
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SRQ
Programs: UA Plat-Million Miler (1.6MM), IHG-Plat Amb; Amex Plat-P, Marriott-Gold;Hertz Gold; Hilton-Gold
Posts: 762
UPDATE: $980 was confirmed paid on Jan 25
UPDATE: GREAT NEWS !
As promised, I want to update all the great LH Flyertalkers with today's (JAN 24) response from [email protected] concerning my EC 261 Claim.
I just need to know from some experienced LH folks if it is normal for Lufthansa to handle Customer Service Issues and EC 261 Claims on behalf of Austrian. I provided all of my data, including bank data, at a Austrian.com/feedback portal and the response below, including the request for bank data came from Lufthansa. It seems all legit, but I am always nervous about providing bank details to yet another party. Please let me know that this is normal and not a sophisticated scam.
Here is the response I received about my EC 261 Claim:
Dear Mr. Gpicur
Thank you for your online feedback dated January 18, 2019.
We regret that your flight did no go as smoothly as you rightly expected due to unforeseen technical defects and that your baggage was delayed on your flight to Cairo. We sincerely apologise for the inconvenience that this caused you.
Therefore, we are glad to offer EUR 600 equivalent to USD 692 compensation for your flight irregularity. In addition, we will offer EUR 250 equivalent to USD 288 for your delayed bag. Please provide us with your account number and routing number so that we can proceed with the payment and allow us to explain that it may be up to two weeks before you see the amount on your account.
Moreover, we are very sorry that you did not receive every assistance from our staff in Washington in this situation. We agree: This should not happen. We sincerely apologize that you had to have this experience.
It is our hope that you will fly with Austrian Airlines again and that in the future your journey will be in accordance with your expectations.
Sincerely,
AAA
AUSTRIAN AIRLINESFeedback ManagementHeadoffice Office Park 2, P.O. Box 33,A-1300 Vienna Airport, Austria Fax +43 (0)5 1766 51002www.austrian.com/feedback
As promised, I want to update all the great LH Flyertalkers with today's (JAN 24) response from [email protected] concerning my EC 261 Claim.
I just need to know from some experienced LH folks if it is normal for Lufthansa to handle Customer Service Issues and EC 261 Claims on behalf of Austrian. I provided all of my data, including bank data, at a Austrian.com/feedback portal and the response below, including the request for bank data came from Lufthansa. It seems all legit, but I am always nervous about providing bank details to yet another party. Please let me know that this is normal and not a sophisticated scam.
Here is the response I received about my EC 261 Claim:
Dear Mr. Gpicur
Thank you for your online feedback dated January 18, 2019.
We regret that your flight did no go as smoothly as you rightly expected due to unforeseen technical defects and that your baggage was delayed on your flight to Cairo. We sincerely apologise for the inconvenience that this caused you.
Therefore, we are glad to offer EUR 600 equivalent to USD 692 compensation for your flight irregularity. In addition, we will offer EUR 250 equivalent to USD 288 for your delayed bag. Please provide us with your account number and routing number so that we can proceed with the payment and allow us to explain that it may be up to two weeks before you see the amount on your account.
Moreover, we are very sorry that you did not receive every assistance from our staff in Washington in this situation. We agree: This should not happen. We sincerely apologize that you had to have this experience.
It is our hope that you will fly with Austrian Airlines again and that in the future your journey will be in accordance with your expectations.
Sincerely,
AAA
AUSTRIAN AIRLINESFeedback ManagementHeadoffice Office Park 2, P.O. Box 33,A-1300 Vienna Airport, Austria Fax +43 (0)5 1766 51002www.austrian.com/feedback
As promised, I wanted to give everyone an update on my EC261 Claim. As you can see above, LH/OS advised that they would pay my EC261 Claim but advised that it might take up to two weeks to receive the payment. I provided my Bank Details both at the OS Portal on 1/18 and via email to LH Customer Relations on 1/24. So, after two weeks without seeing any deposit, I contacted LH Customer Relations to ask about the status of my claim. They Responded : " Thank you for your email dated February 6, 2019. We are pleased to inform you that your payment we have processed amounting to USD 980 on January 25, 2019 has already been confirmed on our end. It was processed on the bank details you have provided. If you have not received this yet, kindly follow up with your bank." Austrian Airlines remains at your service. Mit freundlichen Grüßen AUSTRIAN AIRLINES. Now I am very grateful for OS/LH agreeing to recognize and process a $980 claim payment, but their advice to "kindly follow up with your bank" is a bit patronizing to say the least. If their bank processed a payment on 1/25 and it was not yet deposited in my account on 2/6, it safe to say that there was a problem and it is certainly not on my side. I did as they requested and contacted my bank (Bank of America) who conducted a diligent search and found no rejected or pending inbound transfers. I advised LH Customer Relations what my Bank said and asked for their Transfer Number. I have yet to receive a response.
Mar 16, 2019, 6:51 am
#20
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SRQ
Programs: UA Plat-Million Miler (1.6MM), IHG-Plat Amb; Amex Plat-P, Marriott-Gold;Hertz Gold; Hilton-Gold
Posts: 762
Finally Received $980
Hello LH Flyertalkers,
As promised, I wanted to give everyone an update on my EC261 Claim. As you can see above, LH/OS advised that they would pay my EC261 Claim but advised that it might take up to two weeks to receive the payment. I provided my Bank Details both at the OS Portal on 1/18 and via email to LH Customer Relations on 1/24. So, after two weeks without seeing any deposit, I contacted LH Customer Relations to ask about the status of my claim. They Responded : " Thank you for your email dated February 6, 2019. We are pleased to inform you that your payment we have processed amounting to USD 980 on January 25, 2019 has already been confirmed on our end. It was processed on the bank details you have provided. If you have not received this yet, kindly follow up with your bank." Austrian Airlines remains at your service. Mit freundlichen Grüßen AUSTRIAN AIRLINES. Now I am very grateful for OS/LH agreeing to recognize and process a $980 claim payment, but their advice to "kindly follow up with your bank" is a bit patronizing to say the least. If their bank processed a payment on 1/25 and it was not yet deposited in my account on 2/6, it safe to say that there was a problem and it is certainly not on my side. I did as they requested and contacted my bank (Bank of America) who conducted a diligent search and found no rejected or pending inbound transfers. I advised LH Customer Relations what my Bank said and asked for their Transfer Number. I have yet to receive a response.
As promised, I wanted to give everyone an update on my EC261 Claim. As you can see above, LH/OS advised that they would pay my EC261 Claim but advised that it might take up to two weeks to receive the payment. I provided my Bank Details both at the OS Portal on 1/18 and via email to LH Customer Relations on 1/24. So, after two weeks without seeing any deposit, I contacted LH Customer Relations to ask about the status of my claim. They Responded : " Thank you for your email dated February 6, 2019. We are pleased to inform you that your payment we have processed amounting to USD 980 on January 25, 2019 has already been confirmed on our end. It was processed on the bank details you have provided. If you have not received this yet, kindly follow up with your bank." Austrian Airlines remains at your service. Mit freundlichen Grüßen AUSTRIAN AIRLINES. Now I am very grateful for OS/LH agreeing to recognize and process a $980 claim payment, but their advice to "kindly follow up with your bank" is a bit patronizing to say the least. If their bank processed a payment on 1/25 and it was not yet deposited in my account on 2/6, it safe to say that there was a problem and it is certainly not on my side. I did as they requested and contacted my bank (Bank of America) who conducted a diligent search and found no rejected or pending inbound transfers. I advised LH Customer Relations what my Bank said and asked for their Transfer Number. I have yet to receive a response.
As promised earlier, I wanted to give you what will amount to my final update on my EC261 Claim with Austrian Airlines. FYI: Even though I made my initial claim at the Austrian Airlines Feedback Website, all my subsequent dealings were with Lufthansa Customer Relations. Finally, on March 14, I received $980 in my Bank Account as promised from Lufthansa. I guess there was some sort of mix up and after finally listening to me and allowing me to re-confirm the Bank Details, I received the funds in 48 hours. I hope this thread serves the Community, especially in determining the definition of "extraordinary circumstances". If anyone ever needs "verbage" as to what to write when filing an EC261 Claim with LH or OS, do not hesitate to contact me via PM. Best Regards to All !