M&M going revenue based [for award miles on LH group tickets] 12MAR2018
Oct 25, 2018, 5:53 am
#331
Join Date: Jul 2017
Programs: AY Plat Lumo, LX SEN, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 468
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Oct 25, 2018, 8:58 am
#333
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 150km from MAN
Programs: LH SEN** HH Diamond
Posts: 29,520
Oct 25, 2018, 9:00 am
#334
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: GVA,OPO
Programs: BD the last decent FFP
Posts: 1,856
if that meant you requalified for SEN, well done. if not I'll doubt the sanity of that
Oct 25, 2018, 9:26 am
#335
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 150km from MAN
Programs: LH SEN** HH Diamond
Posts: 29,520
Yes, I did. Somewhere over England on the way back to MUC. 
I also attended a DO in YVR but thanks for your concern all the same! 
if not I'll doubt the sanity of that 
Oct 25, 2018, 1:52 pm
#336
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,113
Oct 28, 2018, 1:38 am
#337
Join Date: May 2006
Location: BRS (Bristol, UK)
Programs: LH SEN/*G
Posts: 1,266
Seems a legit routing to me. Given the insane cheap fares to CHI/SFO/LAX in K, combined with very generous routings, it did look cheaper for me to fly UK to TXL via ORD at one point. (£270-ish pounds via ORD, compared to £340-ish direct).
Oct 28, 2018, 2:56 am
#338
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 150km from MAN
Programs: LH SEN** HH Diamond
Posts: 29,520
Nov 17, 2018, 1:44 am
#339
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: LON
Programs: LH M&M SEN, Accor Plat
Posts: 83
I have to say I am VERY surprised some members on here insist the new system works better for them (!). Get this: £4,500/€5,000 ticket LON-ZRH-SIN-SYD return - going in D and returning in C and here’s what my account shows so far: LON-ZRH (D): 2500 status miles / 492 award miles!!! ZRH-SIN (D): 14409 status / 6588 award; SIN-SYD (J; operated by SQ): 7824 status / 3355 award; SYD-SIN (C; operated by SQ): 7824 status / 4785 award. The rest of the flights are yet to post but I’m literally getting at most half the award miles I usually got before the changes and some don’t even make sense. LON-ZRH for instance. What the... As I fly this segment often I want to demonstrate a comparison on award miles I earned this year: 642 miles in P, another time it was 1170 in Q (Economy!), another time 270 in Q.. I get it’s based on amount paid not booking class but come on: how the hell do I get only 492 miles for a D class flight on a flexible €5000 ticket?? And I have no visibility as to how this was calculated/broken down and just have to ‘trust’ LH even if they get it wrong? Might as well just fly SQ all the way next time...
Nov 17, 2018, 4:54 am
#340
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: BRU
Programs: LH HON**
Posts: 387
Some of my recent experiences:
MUC-YUL Z = 9246 award, 5823 status
ZRH-YUL A = 14484 award, 11157 status
SIN-ZRH D = 11748 award, 12808 status
BRU-ZRH D = 12300 award, 2000 status
If only HON miles could always be whichever is the highest of the two...
MUC-YUL Z = 9246 award, 5823 status
ZRH-YUL A = 14484 award, 11157 status
SIN-ZRH D = 11748 award, 12808 status
BRU-ZRH D = 12300 award, 2000 status
If only HON miles could always be whichever is the highest of the two...
Nov 17, 2018, 5:16 am
#341
Join Date: Jan 2010
Programs: LO
Posts: 150
I have to say I am VERY surprised some members on here insist the new system works better for them (!). Get this: £4,500/€5,000 ticket LON-ZRH-SIN-SYD return - going in D and returning in C and here’s what my account shows so far: LON-ZRH (D): 2500 status miles / 492 award miles!!! ZRH-SIN (D): 14409 status / 6588 award; SIN-SYD (J; operated by SQ): 7824 status / 3355 award; SYD-SIN (C; operated by SQ): 7824 status / 4785 award. The rest of the flights are yet to post but I’m literally getting at most half the award miles I usually got before the changes and some don’t even make sense. LON-ZRH for instance. What the... As I fly this segment often I want to demonstrate a comparison on award miles I earned this year: 642 miles in P, another time it was 1170 in Q (Economy!), another time 270 in Q.. I get it’s based on amount paid not booking class but come on: how the hell do I get only 492 miles for a D class flight on a flexible €5000 ticket?? And I have no visibility as to how this was calculated/broken down and just have to ‘trust’ LH even if they get it wrong? Might as well just fly SQ all the way next time...
Nov 17, 2018, 5:17 am
#342
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SIN (with a bit of ZRH sprinkled in)
Posts: 9,458
Well, it's exactly what was told before: People booking promo/special fares in premium classes will get much less miles, people paying full fare will win.
Apparetently, LH knows well that people paying full fare for premium classes are very often not actually paying it themselves, but a company will cover those costs. And if get to keep those miles, some might push their company to buy their last-minute premium tickets at LH, since they'll profit from it more than when they're flying another carrier which is more equal (not that many are left)
I mean, discrimination by how many miles you got is around for many years now, the only difference was that it wasn't cash-related but booking class related, so it was possible to "game" the system a bit easier.
Now, it seems they really want to attract those NOT having to pay for the high fares themselves, while profiting from the award miles. While those having to pay their tickets themselves are losing out (and possibly eventually looking elsewhere)
LH clearly hopes that the extra revenue from those "forcing" their companies to pay expensive LH fares will make up (and more) for those looking elsewhere..
Apparetently, LH knows well that people paying full fare for premium classes are very often not actually paying it themselves, but a company will cover those costs. And if get to keep those miles, some might push their company to buy their last-minute premium tickets at LH, since they'll profit from it more than when they're flying another carrier which is more equal (not that many are left)
I mean, discrimination by how many miles you got is around for many years now, the only difference was that it wasn't cash-related but booking class related, so it was possible to "game" the system a bit easier.
Now, it seems they really want to attract those NOT having to pay for the high fares themselves, while profiting from the award miles. While those having to pay their tickets themselves are losing out (and possibly eventually looking elsewhere)
LH clearly hopes that the extra revenue from those "forcing" their companies to pay expensive LH fares will make up (and more) for those looking elsewhere..
Nov 17, 2018, 5:48 am
#343
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: BRU
Programs: LH HON**
Posts: 387
Perhaps... I should have added more details to my post as well, so here goes:
BRU-MUC-YUL-FRA-BRU (Z) (€ 3,600) = 20,292 award and 13,671 status
BRU-ZRH-YUL-ZRH-BRU (JAZZ) (€4,500) = 25,842 award and 19,986 status
BRU-ZRH-SIN-ZRH-BRU (D) (€ 4,200) = 37,408 award and 29,616 status. I suspect one leg received more award miles than it should have, but it is in my favour, so...
For what it’s worth, my tickets are paid out of my own pocket.
BRU-MUC-YUL-FRA-BRU (Z) (€ 3,600) = 20,292 award and 13,671 status
BRU-ZRH-YUL-ZRH-BRU (JAZZ) (€4,500) = 25,842 award and 19,986 status
BRU-ZRH-SIN-ZRH-BRU (D) (€ 4,200) = 37,408 award and 29,616 status. I suspect one leg received more award miles than it should have, but it is in my favour, so...
For what it’s worth, my tickets are paid out of my own pocket.
Last edited by Vixit; Nov 17, 2018 at 11:33 am
Nov 17, 2018, 2:40 pm
#344
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreux CH
Programs: FB Platinum, M&M FTL, BA Blue
Posts: 11,629
I still think that to target high spenders, who will be mostly people who are not paying for their own tickets, to the total detriment of the incremental passengers if a big mistake in the long term. It will backfire somehow as it becomes an uninteresting and totally useless entity, like Bahnbonus (the loyalty of Deutsche Bahn, the German train company). We will see in time. M&M is just a rebate program now, not a loyalty award scheme. At least on Bahnbonus award tickets there are no taxes and bogus charges.
Nov 18, 2018, 12:04 am
#345
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: BRU
Programs: LH HON**
Posts: 387
Industry price pressure and 3rd party charges are indirectly and directly contributing to making most loyalty programs worse.
I can buy a ticket BRU-MUC-ARN-MUC-BRU in Eco K for € 125,99 for the four flights. The LH fare component of that is € 17,00 while taxes & surcharges are 108,99. I don’t expect to get a lot of miles from an airline when their revenue is 17 euros for 4 flights... Generally speaking, I nowadays get more award miles via credit cards than from actual flying.
Since we all have different travel patterns it’s always going to be comparing apples with pears, but is there any loyalty program that seems to be positioning itself significantly better & better for the mainstream traveler? If so, which one?
I can buy a ticket BRU-MUC-ARN-MUC-BRU in Eco K for € 125,99 for the four flights. The LH fare component of that is € 17,00 while taxes & surcharges are 108,99. I don’t expect to get a lot of miles from an airline when their revenue is 17 euros for 4 flights... Generally speaking, I nowadays get more award miles via credit cards than from actual flying.
Since we all have different travel patterns it’s always going to be comparing apples with pears, but is there any loyalty program that seems to be positioning itself significantly better & better for the mainstream traveler? If so, which one?