Am I entitled to compensation? [merged]
Sep 26, 2019, 4:08 am
#466
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Belgium
Posts: 270
This isn't my reading of the Regulation. If the flight is earlier then you're eligible for compensation if its 1 or more hours earlier than originally scheduled. The arrival time is irrelevant because its a canx, not a delay. Canx gives automatic compensation if the criteria are fulfilled.
This isn't at all about delay. The response from LH is wrong, what a surprise...NOT.
This isn't at all about delay. The response from LH is wrong, what a surprise...NOT.
Sep 28, 2019, 3:35 pm
#467
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 11,582
Helga must have feared the wrath of Brenda Hale and one of her scary brooches because she has had a change of mind. She has been assiduously researching these past few weeks...
Thank you for your continuous correspondence.
We understand your frustration with our previous correspondence in regards to the decisions that have been made. Please accept our sincerest apologies in this respect.
After extensive research, we have amended our decision and would like to fully compensate you with the amount of EUR 250 in accordance with EU Regulation 261/2004. Please provide us with your account number and sort code, as well as the postal address linked to your nominated account. Kindly also indicate whether you have a EUR account or GBP account. Once we receive the requested information, we will proceed with payment without issuing any further correspondence. Please allow for several days for the payment to clear and reflect accordingly.
We understand your frustration with our previous correspondence in regards to the decisions that have been made. Please accept our sincerest apologies in this respect.
After extensive research, we have amended our decision and would like to fully compensate you with the amount of EUR 250 in accordance with EU Regulation 261/2004. Please provide us with your account number and sort code, as well as the postal address linked to your nominated account. Kindly also indicate whether you have a EUR account or GBP account. Once we receive the requested information, we will proceed with payment without issuing any further correspondence. Please allow for several days for the payment to clear and reflect accordingly.
Oct 1, 2019, 11:22 am
#468
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Belgium
Posts: 270
This isn't my reading of the Regulation. If the flight is earlier then you're eligible for compensation if its 1 or more hours earlier than originally scheduled. The arrival time is irrelevant because its a canx, not a delay. Canx gives automatic compensation if the criteria are fulfilled.
This isn't at all about delay. The response from LH is wrong, what a surprise...NOT.
This isn't at all about delay. The response from LH is wrong, what a surprise...NOT.
The EU compensation 261/2004, passengers are entitled to a compensation of 600€ in case of delay of a flight of more than 3500km with a delay of more than 4 hours against the original schedule.
Please be advised that because you had arrived in Brussels a day earlier than originally scheduled, the airline therefore may reduce the compensation by 50%. As previously mentioned, you had arrived more than 1 hour earlier than the scheduled time of arrival.
Therefore, since there was no delay in your flight but you had been rescheduled a day earlier, we had therefore processed only 50% of the compensation.
I apologize again for any inconvenience caused and hope that we can retain your confidence in us.
Guess I'll just have to settle for half of it...
Nov 21, 2019, 1:33 pm
#469
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 1
My flight from FRA to POZ was cancelled back in August. The situation was as follows - when we entered the aircraft a storm came over Frankfurt. We waited in the plane until it passed (about an hour). Then we were ready for take off but the pilot informed us that our waiting time for our slot is 2h. After 2,5h the flight was cancelled (the pilot said "due to operational reasons" - they probably wanted to use the plane for another route) and we returned to the terminal. I was rebooked over MUC and arrived well over 9h after my planed arrival. I had to run to the MUC flight and it took off without any problems so the airport was normally operational.
Lufthansa says that the cancellation was due to weather conditions so I am not entitled to compensation. But it's only half true. If we had taken off simply later (even after waiting those 2h) I would not have said anything. Ultimately "they" cancelled the flight even though we were ready to fly
Do I have the right for compensation or should argue more with LH or is LH right?
Thanks for advice
Lufthansa says that the cancellation was due to weather conditions so I am not entitled to compensation. But it's only half true. If we had taken off simply later (even after waiting those 2h) I would not have said anything. Ultimately "they" cancelled the flight even though we were ready to fly
Do I have the right for compensation or should argue more with LH or is LH right?
Thanks for advice
Nov 21, 2019, 1:38 pm
#470
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,452
My flight from FRA to POZ was cancelled back in August. The situation was as follows - when we entered the aircraft a storm came over Frankfurt. We waited in the plane until it passed (about an hour). Then we were ready for take off but the pilot informed us that our waiting time for our slot is 2h. After 2,5h the flight was cancelled (the pilot said "due to operational reasons" - they probably wanted to use the plane for another route) and we returned to the terminal. I was rebooked over MUC and arrived well over 9h after my planed arrival. I had to run to the MUC flight and it took off without any problems so the airport was normally operational.
Lufthansa says that the cancellation was due to weather conditions so I am not entitled to compensation. But it's only half true. If we had taken off simply later (even after waiting those 2h) I would not have said anything. Ultimately "they" cancelled the flight even though we were ready to fly
Do I have the right for compensation or should argue more with LH or is LH right?
Thanks for advice
Lufthansa says that the cancellation was due to weather conditions so I am not entitled to compensation. But it's only half true. If we had taken off simply later (even after waiting those 2h) I would not have said anything. Ultimately "they" cancelled the flight even though we were ready to fly
Do I have the right for compensation or should argue more with LH or is LH right?
Thanks for advice
Nov 23, 2019, 12:34 pm
#471
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 1
Flying Edelweiss into EU - delayed flight
Dear All,
Would you mind taking a look at my case and help me out?
Summary: Flight delayed 3+hrs due to "restrictions imposed by air traffic control", Edelweiss Airlines, route: non-EU -> Switzerland -> EU.
Details, planned route:
Start: TIA (Albania, non-EU)
Flight 1: Edelweiss, WK 413 / LX 8413 - this flight was delayed
Change: ZRH (Switzerland)
Flight 2: Swiss, LX 1348 - I missed that flight
Destination: WAW (Poland, EU)
Due to delay of flight 1, I missed my ZRH -> WAW flight, were redirected through Brussels, and effectively arrived with 3hrs+ delay.
My e-mail exchange with Edelweiss can be summarized as follows:
Me: Yo, your flight was delayed
Edelweiss:Restrictions imposed by air traffic control. In accordance with Regulation (EC) 261/2004, airlines are not required to make compensation payments if the delay is attributed to extraordinary circumstances
Me: According to Interpretative Guidelines on Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 carrier must give a proof of stuff. I want proof
Edelweiss: District court Bülach, 02.02.2016: No compensation payments are due for late flights to and from Switzerland.
I wanted to keep it simple, so I omitted some (I believe, insignificant) details, but I can provide more facts if necessary.
So, my question is: Is there anything I can do from here? Is it a lost cause, or is there a way to push Edelweiss?
Would you mind taking a look at my case and help me out?
Summary: Flight delayed 3+hrs due to "restrictions imposed by air traffic control", Edelweiss Airlines, route: non-EU -> Switzerland -> EU.
Details, planned route:
Start: TIA (Albania, non-EU)
Flight 1: Edelweiss, WK 413 / LX 8413 - this flight was delayed
Change: ZRH (Switzerland)
Flight 2: Swiss, LX 1348 - I missed that flight
Destination: WAW (Poland, EU)
Due to delay of flight 1, I missed my ZRH -> WAW flight, were redirected through Brussels, and effectively arrived with 3hrs+ delay.
My e-mail exchange with Edelweiss can be summarized as follows:
Me: Yo, your flight was delayed
Edelweiss:Restrictions imposed by air traffic control. In accordance with Regulation (EC) 261/2004, airlines are not required to make compensation payments if the delay is attributed to extraordinary circumstances
Me: According to Interpretative Guidelines on Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 carrier must give a proof of stuff. I want proof
Edelweiss: District court Bülach, 02.02.2016: No compensation payments are due for late flights to and from Switzerland.
I wanted to keep it simple, so I omitted some (I believe, insignificant) details, but I can provide more facts if necessary.
So, my question is: Is there anything I can do from here? Is it a lost cause, or is there a way to push Edelweiss?
Nov 23, 2019, 5:13 pm
#472
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: WAW
Programs: LH SEN *
Posts: 1,153
Welcome to FT, Raczek!
Edelweiss Air is owned by Swiss, and Swiss is very stingy with EU261 compensation, playing with rules and making up excuses.
A word of warning on Swiss International [interpretation of EU261/04 & ECJ rulings]
Edelweiss Air is owned by Swiss, and Swiss is very stingy with EU261 compensation, playing with rules and making up excuses.
A word of warning on Swiss International [interpretation of EU261/04 & ECJ rulings]
Nov 24, 2019, 1:00 am
#473
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,452
Dear All,
Would you mind taking a look at my case and help me out?
Summary: Flight delayed 3+hrs due to "restrictions imposed by air traffic control", Edelweiss Airlines, route: non-EU -> Switzerland -> EU.
Details, planned route:
Start: TIA (Albania, non-EU)
Flight 1: Edelweiss, WK 413 / LX 8413 - this flight was delayed
Change: ZRH (Switzerland)
Flight 2: Swiss, LX 1348 - I missed that flight
Destination: WAW (Poland, EU)
Due to delay of flight 1, I missed my ZRH -> WAW flight, were redirected through Brussels, and effectively arrived with 3hrs+ delay.
My e-mail exchange with Edelweiss can be summarized as follows:
Me: Yo, your flight was delayed
Edelweiss:Restrictions imposed by air traffic control. In accordance with Regulation (EC) 261/2004, airlines are not required to make compensation payments if the delay is attributed to extraordinary circumstances
Me: According to Interpretative Guidelines on Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 carrier must give a proof of stuff. I want proof
Edelweiss: District court Bülach, 02.02.2016: No compensation payments are due for late flights to and from Switzerland.
I wanted to keep it simple, so I omitted some (I believe, insignificant) details, but I can provide more facts if necessary.
So, my question is: Is there anything I can do from here? Is it a lost cause, or is there a way to push Edelweiss?
Would you mind taking a look at my case and help me out?
Summary: Flight delayed 3+hrs due to "restrictions imposed by air traffic control", Edelweiss Airlines, route: non-EU -> Switzerland -> EU.
Details, planned route:
Start: TIA (Albania, non-EU)
Flight 1: Edelweiss, WK 413 / LX 8413 - this flight was delayed
Change: ZRH (Switzerland)
Flight 2: Swiss, LX 1348 - I missed that flight
Destination: WAW (Poland, EU)
Due to delay of flight 1, I missed my ZRH -> WAW flight, were redirected through Brussels, and effectively arrived with 3hrs+ delay.
My e-mail exchange with Edelweiss can be summarized as follows:
Me: Yo, your flight was delayed
Edelweiss:Restrictions imposed by air traffic control. In accordance with Regulation (EC) 261/2004, airlines are not required to make compensation payments if the delay is attributed to extraordinary circumstances
Me: According to Interpretative Guidelines on Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 carrier must give a proof of stuff. I want proof
Edelweiss: District court Bülach, 02.02.2016: No compensation payments are due for late flights to and from Switzerland.
I wanted to keep it simple, so I omitted some (I believe, insignificant) details, but I can provide more facts if necessary.
So, my question is: Is there anything I can do from here? Is it a lost cause, or is there a way to push Edelweiss?
Apr 22, 2020, 3:24 pm
#474
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5
My daughter (22) traveled on LH 960 on Jan. 13, 2020, from Frankfurt to Glasgow. This flight was scheduled to arrive in Glasgow at 15:00. Her flight never landed in Glasgow because of what the crew described as 'heavy winds,' even though other scheduled aircrafts, at this time, were landing in Glasgow Airport. (Have airport arrival info screenshot from the day.)
The plane took a detour to land in Manchester(!). Upon arrival, the plane spent some time on the tarmac, LH decided that the flight would end in Manchester, after which decision all passenger off-boarded. Then LH took some time to figure out how to get everyone to Glasgow and decided to get buses. In 30-60 intervals, a single bus arrived to take only a portion of the passengers back up to Glasgow Airport. My daughter got onto the 2nd one and the bus journey alone added 5 extra hours to the trip. Net, net she arrived in Glasgow around 00:10, on January 14th (the following day), a9+ hour delay.
The way we read EC Regulation 261/2004 and subsequent court decisions for my delayed travel she would be eligible a compensation for €400.00. However, Lufthansa customer service is adamant that "unfavorable weather conditions caused the diversion of your flight as the adversity of the weather made it impossible to operate your flight as scheduled" and "occasionally factors outside our control, such as adverse weather, may cause delays for our passenger at the airport". Then LH continues that the case has been carefully reviewed and closed without any possibility for escalation.
Questions: Am I reading EC Regulation 261/2004 right? If so, can cases like this really stopped by LH Customer Service vs. say LH Legal?
Not asking for legal opinion, just others' experience in similar situation. Thank you in advance!
The plane took a detour to land in Manchester(!). Upon arrival, the plane spent some time on the tarmac, LH decided that the flight would end in Manchester, after which decision all passenger off-boarded. Then LH took some time to figure out how to get everyone to Glasgow and decided to get buses. In 30-60 intervals, a single bus arrived to take only a portion of the passengers back up to Glasgow Airport. My daughter got onto the 2nd one and the bus journey alone added 5 extra hours to the trip. Net, net she arrived in Glasgow around 00:10, on January 14th (the following day), a9+ hour delay.
The way we read EC Regulation 261/2004 and subsequent court decisions for my delayed travel she would be eligible a compensation for €400.00. However, Lufthansa customer service is adamant that "unfavorable weather conditions caused the diversion of your flight as the adversity of the weather made it impossible to operate your flight as scheduled" and "occasionally factors outside our control, such as adverse weather, may cause delays for our passenger at the airport". Then LH continues that the case has been carefully reviewed and closed without any possibility for escalation.
Questions: Am I reading EC Regulation 261/2004 right? If so, can cases like this really stopped by LH Customer Service vs. say LH Legal?
Not asking for legal opinion, just others' experience in similar situation. Thank you in advance!
Apr 22, 2020, 3:29 pm
#475
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,452
I doubt you have a case here. Lh doesn't want to land in Man just for the fun of it, and the fact that other aircraft landed on or about the same time in GLA is pretty much irrelevant. The captain decided that landing in GLA was unsafe and that is the end of it. Exceptional circumstances, meaning no no EC261. Probably not what you wanted to hear, but I fear this is a lost cause.