Am I entitled to compensation? [merged]

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Old Nov 3, 14, 7:32 am
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Am I entitled to compensation? [merged]

Hello,
my husband's flight from DEN to Franfurt got delayed for 4 hours 15 min due to mechanical issues. The ticket was bought using UA miles for a trip DEN-FRA-PRG on LH flights.

After we learned about the delay, I contacted LH asking them to help with rescheduling the flight FRA-PRG as the check in rep simply refused to help.
On the phone I got rude customer service rep who told me that since the flight was purchased with UA miles, I have to talk to UA, which I believe was not correct, but fortunately UA was able to help and reschedule the flight FRA-PRG.

So my husband got to his final destination at 18:15 instead of at 13:55.

We have no experience with filing any compensation requests, so I would like to ask you for an advice, how to do so?

thank you.

Last edited by Boleslav; Nov 3, 14 at 7:56 am
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Old Nov 3, 14, 7:44 am
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Your post is somewhat confusing. I presume that you meant to say that your husband was scheduled to arrive at PRG at 13:55 and ultimately arrived at 18:15. Thus, 4:20 late.

You have two separate issues:

1. Rebooking due to IRROPS. If your husband asked an LH agent at DEN or FRA, one of them (most likely at FRA) would have rebooked him. As the late delivering carrier, it was LH's responsibility to handle the reroute. But, to the extent that you called LH before the aircraft landed in FRA, LH would properly have referred you to UA to handle the rebook, if any. In fact, chances are that if you did nothing, LH would have automatically rebooked your husband on the next PRG flight when it became evident that his flight would not make up time and the PRG flight would depart before his arrival.

2. This is likely a case for EC 261/2004 compensation. If I am correct, this is a LH/UA codeshare operated by LH and it is the operating carrier which is responsible. As an EU carrier, the delay rules would apply. If I am incorrect and the operating carrier was UA, EC 261/2004 would not apply. Presuming that I am correct, you can make the request for compensation (should be EUR 600) to LH on its webform for feedback. All LH needs is the date and flight number. It has all the gory details.
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Old Nov 3, 14, 8:12 am
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Thanks
You are right, the last sentence in my post was a typo, thanks for pointing it out.
Yes, the flight is operated by LH, it is LH 447.

I found the feedback form, and it seems that I should file under: Ground services - flight cancellation/ delay.
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Old Nov 3, 14, 8:45 am
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Originally Posted by Boleslav View Post
After we learned about the delay, I contacted LH asking them to help with rescheduling the flight FRA-PRG as the check in rep simply refused to help.
I appreciate your eagerness to sort things out, but there is no point talking about "rebooking" until he actually departed DEN and therefore there is a reasonable expectation of what time he may arrive in FRA and which rebooking options are therefore viable - unless your aim was to reroute him away from FRA.

When it cannot be immediately determined when he may have been expected to land in FRA, there is no point in rebooking - what if the rebooked itinerary becomes unviable due to a prolonged delay? What if the rebooked itinerary was too pessimistic, and there were earlier options available?

There usually is no need to intervene in such simple, straightforward cases - at the very latest, when he gets to FRA, he would be rebooked on the next available flight to PRG, of which there are 4 each day on LH (and up to an additional 2 each day on CSA, though it is unlikely they would need to rebook him on to this carrier).
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Old Nov 3, 14, 9:20 am
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LH is actually pretty good in automatically rebooking passengers in these kind of situations. Seems that it has worked out here.

Usually LH will send you a lame response why EC261 does not apply. Respond (firm, short and friendly) to that, make sure you mention that according to your information EC261 applies because the delay was mechanical. Normally they give in then and pay.
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Old Nov 3, 14, 10:37 am
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I may have been a bit apprehensive about getting him on the next available flight, I was nervous as his flight ticket was bought with miles, that they will keep bumping him around a bit.
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Old Nov 4, 14, 12:08 am
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From reading OP, I would be concerned that LH could argue that the case was not involuntary re-routing as required for EC261, but voluntary re-routing by passenger... Particularly if the rebooking was done by UA... Just my 5c worth...
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Old Nov 4, 14, 2:03 am
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Flight cancellation - right to compensation

Yesterday 3 Nov my flight SN 2711 BRU GVA was cancelled. They booked me on an alternative flight arriving more than 2 hours later. When I enquired about EC261/2004 compensation, the answer was that this is not valid for technical issues with the plane...???
Questions
* the flight was cancelled approx 12 hours before it was due to depart, in the major hub of SN. Can you then expect that the technical issues are still unexpected, external and unavoidable?
* on the GVA flights, they seem to cancel pretty often - it's a high frequency route and they've alternatives a few hours later - i suspect they choose this route to cancel because they can combine two flights if the load is pretty low; i've seen that quite often on the evening flights... where more recently they've cancelled the 17.10 flight regularly and rebooked everyone on the 18.50 flight... And for the new season, one of these flights has disappeared.

Can anyone here, with some insight in the tools find out what the load was on SN 2711 and SN 2713 on 3 november?

Or give some advise how to deal with it?

Thanks
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Old Nov 4, 14, 3:31 am
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From my experience with LH - was on LH463, 1,5h into flight we turned back to MIA due to technical issues and eventually flight was cancelled. Got home exactly 24 hours later and inquired for EC261/2004. LH response was that EC261/2004 does not apply as these were unexpected circumstances. My response on their b****t was that tech issues with plane that are not caused by external factors (lightning strike, bird strike etc.) cannot be unexpected circumstances as per EU court rulings in some cases... In couple of weeks got compensation on my bank account...
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Old Nov 4, 14, 4:07 am
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I agree. If UA rebooked the pax to a later PRG flight (upon request from the spouse of the OP) it is no longer a EC 261/04 case. The OP made it on the flights for which he was booked. End of story.

It is beyond me why someone would contact UA and ask for a rebooking in this situation when LH would have solved everything upon arrival at FRA and the pax would be entitled to comp. according to EC 261/04 for the delay.
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Old Nov 4, 14, 6:13 am
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It is reasonable sometimes to act fast.
If you see e.g. that your only alternative (later) flight this day holds 1-2 places free, then I am normally trying to act as fast as possible, even before first flight takes place...
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Old Nov 6, 14, 3:27 am
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Originally Posted by keretey View Post
It is reasonable sometimes to act fast.
If you see e.g. that your only alternative (later) flight this day holds 1-2 places free, then I am normally trying to act as fast as possible, even before first flight takes place...
IME if you can afford an extra day (in terms of time) it pays off to be lazy (but vigilant) in these situations. You usually get to your destination in a reasonable time window and compensation requests are (more) straightforward.
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Old Nov 6, 14, 3:30 am
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Originally Posted by maarisk View Post
tech issues with plane that are not caused by external factors (lightning strike, bird strike etc.) cannot be unexpected circumstances as per EU court rulings in some cases...
Can you please cite those cases? It would be good to have them here for future reference.
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Old Nov 6, 14, 3:33 am
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Originally Posted by mmff View Post
Can you please cite those cases? It would be good to have them here for future reference.
Here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulat...ion_261.2F2004
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Old Nov 6, 14, 3:38 am
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Originally Posted by Gnopps View Post
Thanks. Anything besides Wallentin-Hermann vs Alitalia (2008) and Jet2 vs. Huzar (2014)?
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