On a different website was a discussion regarding the frustration over the proliferation of 6:5 blackjack in the Las Vegas casinos.

The discussion remarked that as long as properties were able to attract people to 6:5 tables either thru entertainment or ignorance they would continue to crowd out 2:3 tables especially with games with low or moderate limits. Concern was also expressed that 6:5 was noticed making inroads, albeit somewhat slower, into higher limit tables.

Therefore, consideration to referencing 6:5 blackjack at any limit as "crapjack" to help raise awareness of the its drawbacks/cons to those less informed was proposed.

I thought that 6:5 ripoff tables were an experiment that had imploded when the recession hit Vegas. Sorry to hear that they still proliferate. I remember seeing it more a few years ago, mostly at the tables that were closest to the door on the strip. In one instance I had to hike some distance in Treasure Island to find a normal table, where I proceeded to win $200 with a 10 minute hit/run. Thanks TI, for diverting me to a table with better cards

I will never play 6:5 - if they were to convert all tables I would simply stop playing BJ and continue to enjoy craps, video poker and similar delights. Boycotting 6:5 is a matter of principle, it isn't a simple tweak like hit/stand on soft 17 or restricting double-down to 9,10,11 etc.

I've seen 6:5 in two types of locations: (a) single-deck games and (b) high traffic locations (like the open area of the Flamingo facing the Strip.

Players who gravitate to single-deck like the game because they believe they can "count" cards, and/or because the deck is shuffled after just several hands. Players who frequent the high-traffic locations are casual players who are looking for action.

Either way, the additional 1.4% edge that 6-5 gives the house is minimal with those factors. While that edge is enough to dissuade more "serious" players, it really amounts to almost pennies for casual ones. For example, I've seen the average bet for 6:5 tables are generally $20. The 1.4% edge equals to 28 CENTS.

The 1.4% edge they already had (assuming perfect basic strategy) is what built those steel-and-polished aluminum towers, don't ya know. Paying double that (60 cents per hand) adds up very quickly.

Agreed, the 60 cents per hand adds up quickly from a macro perspective. But my argument isn't that it's inconsequential - my argument is that it's viewed as inconsequential to many casual gamblers. These casual gamblers are the same who pour pennies into slots with a house edge in double figures, the same who used to pay a $1 collection for the "privilege" of making a $5 blackjack bet (20 percent!) at an Indian casino (when they used to have a collection).

The good news is that larger bettors have a better selection. 3:2 still proliferates at the $25 and higher tables. In fact, I have just came back from the high limit room at the MGM, where shoe games offer surrender, DAS, multi-split aces, and dealer stay on all 17s. 6:5 may be here to stay, but I doubt that they'll proliferate much beyond the $15 tables.

Many casual gamblers are doofuses who make face-palm BJ plays like hitting 15 against a 6. These people will give away their money to the house almost as rapidly as with a 6:5 table. So why do some properties (you know) make it hard or even impossible to find a real BJ table? Why the need for the greed?

At 100 hands/hr, that means you lose an extra $28/hr.

QL

I've played 6:5 Blackjack a few times but always at the Paris where it's single deck. Looks like the new policy has made the Las Vegas Sun:

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010...aking-headway/

Why?

To the OP's original comment, I think crapjack is an excellent name for this terrible game. The fact that this game is expanding upwards to higher-limit tables is a testament to the ignorance of so many players. I don't blame the casinos, as they do post the odds and rules in clear sight. It is up to the gambler to understand the game they are playing, and walk away if they don't like the rules. So long as there are uninformed gamblers, there will be casinos offering crapjack.

Because I was 21, didn't have much money (table was $5 minimum), wasn't very good at Blackjack and I liked the slow pace of play at the Paris as well as the abundance of cocktail waitresses.

But casual gamblers don't even see it that way - that's my point.

The likelihood that the 6:5 game will go away is as likely as slots going away (which offer even worse odds).

"True" blackjack hasn't been common for years. I know of only one place that offers surrender, double on any two cards, resplit aces, double after split, and dealer stay on soft 17 - all on a single deck game.

When I was cutting my teeth on blackjack on the single deck games at the Frontier two decades ago, even then they allowed doubling on 10 or 11 only. Perhaps not as offensive as 6:5 (I'm sure Wizard of Odds has an idea), but certainly "anti-player".

6:5 will likely proliferate, but most likely where casinos feel that they don't need the 3:2 (e.g. high traffic locations, low limit games, party pits). I cannot imagine the high-limit salons resorting to 6:5. In fact, some of the best blackjack rules are there....

Finding this thread made my heart hurt. I just booked a vegas trip for October. I guess I'll be playing a bit more craps. The Las Vegas Sun article says that 25% of strip games are 6:5 and 6:5 games can be found in in all of the Harrah's properties.

There are still plenty of places, on-strip and off-strip, with good BJ rules and conditions.

Hopefully, the unfortunate proliferation of 6/5 BJ has reached its saturation point.