Korean Airlines Not for Us

Reply

Old Dec 12, 14, 10:30 am
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1
Thumbs down Korean Airlines Not for Us

Brian Williams reported that the 2014 Airplane Etiquette Study found that seat kickers and inattentive parents were the worst offenders (NBC National News, (Dec. 2014) I can confirm the study's conclusions, since my husband and I were tortured by kicking children on our fourteen hour flight from Seoul to Washington last Dec. 2013.

Two young children repeatedly kicked the back of our three seats despite numerous requests by my husband and me to the cabin crew and the mother to control the children..The communication consisted of both the cabin crew and my husband and myself asking the woman who accompanied these children to control them. The control didn't happen because the kicking and bumping would only stop briefly while the attendant was around and then resume. In fact, it is *not* the case that, as claimed by Jiyoung Moon, Vice President of Customer Relations, "the children's parent was cooperative." After being asked a second time by the flight attendant to stop her children from kicking, the mother complained that she could not be expected to keep her eye constantly on her children despite their seats being next to her. At that point, we realized the fruitlessness of notifying the flight attendant every time a kick to the back of the seat was felt. If the attendants claim that they didn't notice any further disturbing actions, it is because they weren't checking with us.

We didn't realize until the flight was almost over that the father of the children was sitting across the aisle from the mother and the two children. Since the male child was a worse offender than the female child, the flight attendant could have moved the father to sit behind us..The fact that we had purchased an additional seat ($1330) to give us comfort for our long flight did not make it tolerable.

When I emailed Korean Air customer service, Jiyoung.Moon,.Vice President, Customer Relations insisted that the kicking had stopped and my complaint was due to my "state of mind." There was neither a legitimate apology nor an offer to refund the cost of the additional seat ($1330).

In.January, 2014 I sent copies of the insulting emails between Jiyoung Moon and myself to.Yang-Ho Cho,.Chairman and Chief Executive Officer,.Korean Air Lines Co., Ltd.,.260 Haneul-Gil,
Gangseo-Gu,.Seoul,.Seoul, 157240.South Korea.USPS International mail. No response.

In April, 2014, I emailed Chairman Cho's daughter, Heather Cho, then Vice President for Cabin Service and Catering, Korean Air through LinkedIn. No response.

Heather Cho has resigned.her position as Vice President on.Dec. 10, 2014 (Korean Air’s Cho Quits After Outburst Prompts Criticism,.Kyunghee Park,.Bloomberg). Was she asserting her authority to address the lack of airplane etiquette that was most.offensive and annoying like seat kickers and inattentive parents? No, she deplaned an attendant for not asking her if she wanted macadamia nuts before giving them to her.

Korean Air passengers deserve the right to be protected against passengers who are annoying and offensive inflight. When obvious exceptions to airplane etiquette are brought to the attention of KAI customer service, managers should be instructed to provide customer service instead of insulting.the customer. It's time for the KAI family of owners who are managers to rethink their expectations for airplane etiquette and communicate those expectations to their employees. For now, my husband and I will be flying on other airlines..
patlnorris is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 14, 10:35 am
  #2  
nux
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Programs: BA Gold, QF WP
Posts: 12,551
Good idea, because disruptive children only fly on KE...
nux is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 14, 10:38 am
  #3  
Senior Moderator/Moderator: United MileagePlus
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: UA Plat/2MM [23-yr. 1K, now emeritus] WN-A List; MR LT Titanium; HY Whateverist.
Posts: 12,066
As this is specific to an incident which arose on Korean Air, please follow the thread as it moves to the dedicated forum for that airline. Ocn Vw 1K, Moderator, TravelBuzz.
Ocn Vw 1K is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 14, 10:56 am
  #4  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: East Coast
Posts: 1,018
Originally Posted by patlnorris View Post
Two young children repeatedly kicked the back of our three seats despite numerous requests by my husband and me to the cabin crew and the mother to control the children...
Bad manner children (poorly raised) can be anywhere and annoy us. I had somewhat similar experience while "resting" at Lufthansa First Class Lounge where {ethnic reference removed by moderator - unnecessary to make poster's point}family let their children run and scream. I moved to another lounge, but to my surprise, they moved to that one. I was so mad!

The children behaved very badly, and their parents just sat there, and their grandma said nothing to them. I had enough of it it told them that it wasn`t their personal lounge and other things, but they didn`t care. Then I walked to the children with an angry face, and they became a bit quieter. I also said to LH about that (of course, the staff was annoyed as well, but I still said that).

Just deal with the children and the parents on the spot, and if they don`t get it, then ask to be seated at another seat or to show your point, try to exchange your seat with the one behind the parents (even for a few minutes) and kick them-see how they like it. Ignorance is not acceptable.

Last edited by Moderator2; Dec 15, 14 at 3:41 pm
Kat007 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 14, 12:40 pm
  #5  
Formerly known as HuwRLewis
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Holland, Michigan, USA
Programs: DL-DM (Charter); DL-MM; Hilton: Diamond
Posts: 139
Originally Posted by Kat007 View Post
Bad manner children (poorly raised) can be anywhere and annoy us. I had somewhat similar experience while "resting" at Lufthansa First Class Lounge where {ethnic reference removed by moderator - unnecessary to make poster's point}family let their children run and scream. I moved to another lounge, but to my surprise, they moved to that one. I was so mad!

The children behaved very badly, and their parents just sat there, and their grandma said nothing to them. I had enough of it it told them that it wasn`t their personal lounge and other things, but they didn`t care. Then I walked to the children with an angry face, and they became a bit quieter. I also said to LH about that (of course, the staff was annoyed as well, but I still said that).

Just deal with the children and the parents on the spot, and if they don`t get it, then ask to be seated at another seat or to show your point, try to exchange your seat with the one behind the parents (even for a few minutes) and kick them-see how they like it. Ignorance is not acceptable.
It's not appropriate or fair that customers should be put in the position of 'policing' the quiet atmosphere of a lounge when others are violating it.

I think everyone in the lounge would applaud if the Lounge Staff had the courage to warn families with badly behaving children that they must control their children or be required to leave the lounge; and follow through if the disruptive behavior persists. (Even using security agents if necessary.)

Last edited by Moderator2; Dec 15, 14 at 3:41 pm
CrazyCelt is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 14, 7:48 pm
  #6  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 453
Well, this is exactly why business class and first class are sort of necessary if you want to guarantee pleasant flying experience.

I've had acceptable experience in economy but also seriously awful experience.

But seriously, why the hell would you think that paying for three seats will give you more comfort than paying for two seats?
For that matter, why didn't you just pay a little more for business class?
dkjb3t4 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 14, 8:29 pm
  #7  
Original Member
 
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Costa Mesa, CA, USA
Programs: AA (Life Plat), Starwood (Plat) and every other US program
Posts: 4,994
Originally Posted by dkjb3t4 View Post
Well, this is exactly why business class and first class are sort of necessary if you want to guarantee pleasant flying experience.

I've had acceptable experience in economy but also seriously awful experience.

But seriously, why the hell would you think that paying for three seats will give you more comfort than paying for two seats?
For that matter, why didn't you just pay a little more for business class?
I haven't checked the specific routing in question, but I think you will find that the Business Class seats are a few thousand each, additional, not just 1330.
sbrower is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 14, 8:46 pm
  #8  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: IAH
Programs: UA&Mariott Plat Prem.
Posts: 4,035
Originally Posted by sbrower View Post
I haven't checked the specific routing in question, but I think you will find that the Business Class seats are a few thousand each, additional, not just 1330.
If OP booked through a TA the difference should not be anymore.
TennisNoob is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 14, 9:25 pm
  #9  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: LAS HNL
Programs: DL DM, 5.7 MM, UA 3.1 MM, MARRIOTT PLATINUM, AVIS FIRST, Amex Black Card
Posts: 4,455
Originally Posted by dkjb3t4 View Post
Well, this is exactly why business class and first class are sort of necessary if you want to guarantee pleasant flying experience.

For that matter, why didn't you just pay a little more for business class?
These kicking little "bundles of joy" can fly in any class of service offered. No guarantees. The same could have happened in business class or FC.

I am still laughing at the $1330 paid for an empty seat.

Unreal.

KE is laughing all the way to the bank with that $1330.
kettle1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 14, 9:26 pm
  #10  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: East Coast
Posts: 1,018
Originally Posted by CrazyCelt View Post
It's not appropriate or fair that customers should be put in the position of 'policing' the quiet atmosphere of a lounge when others are violating it.

I think everyone in the lounge would applaud if the Lounge Staff had the courage to warn families with badly behaving children that they must control their children or be required to leave the lounge; and follow through if the disruptive behavior persists. (Even using security agents if necessary.)
Lufthansa has been a mess lately, they care less about anything but money. So after patiently waiting for the staff handle the situation, I had to act myself.
Kat007 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 14, 9:28 pm
  #11  
Formerly known as HuwRLewis
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Holland, Michigan, USA
Programs: DL-DM (Charter); DL-MM; Hilton: Diamond
Posts: 139
Originally Posted by dkjb3t4 View Post
Well, this is exactly why business class and first class are sort of necessary if you want to guarantee pleasant flying experience.

I've had acceptable experience in economy but also seriously awful experience.

But seriously, why the hell would you think that paying for three seats will give you more comfort than paying for two seats?
For that matter, why didn't you just pay a little more for business class?
Actually, I think everyone should be able to take a flight that is not made uncomfortable by any passenger being unruly - whether the culprit is a child kicking the back of your seat, or a drunk adult shouting.

Your suggestion that only by buying a business or first class seat can one 'guarantee' avoiding this sort of thing is wrong on two counts: First, what you suggest implies that if you buy a seat in coach you and anyone else can behave like an animal and disrupt everyone else. That's so wrong it's stupid. Second, seats in first and business do not guarantee any escape from this sort of experience, as posts on this website will attest. So considering the facts, that's stupid too.

I don't meant to suggest that you're stupid per se, just your response. In fact, it's doubly stupid. LOL

Last edited by CrazyCelt; Dec 12, 14 at 9:43 pm
CrazyCelt is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 14, 9:49 pm
  #12  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA, SPG, Hilton Gold, Hyatt (Lifetime Diamond downgraded to Explorist)
Posts: 6,470
Take a page from the Governator's playbook.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp043py-Rqs
Yoshi212 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 14, 10:10 pm
  #13  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Programs: Aadvantage Platinum, Ritz-Carlton Rewards Silver, Le Club Accor Silver
Posts: 8,359
Originally Posted by kettle1 View Post
These kicking little "bundles of joy" can fly in any class of service offered. No guarantees. The same could have happened in business class or FC.

I am still laughing at the $1330 paid for an empty seat.

Unreal.

KE is laughing all the way to the bank with that $1330.
The bolded is all too true. Years ago, I flew a short hop between JFK and SJU, having recently had orthopeadic surgery. I was flying in J (domestic F, J to and from the Caribbean on AA). Seated behind me was a child, accompanied by his mother. The mother promptly put on her headphones and decided to mellow out. The child kicked away at my seat. And kicked. And kicked. I asked the child not to kick. To no avail. I tried to get the mother's attention. She ignored me. Every time the child kicked, the pain I experienced was immense and intense. I asked the FA to speak to the mother. The mother's reaction was that this was how children behaved on airplanes. Really? Really?
ysolde is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 14, 10:59 pm
  #14  
formerly known as Tad's Broiled Steaks
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: @BuildingMyBento
Programs: Metro-North Rubbish, Keisei Skinflint, KCR Headphones, Kopaja Platinum
Posts: 5,134
Originally Posted by dkjb3t4 View Post
Well, this is exactly why business class and first class are sort of necessary if you want to guarantee pleasant flying experience.
Guarantee? Unless you personally book the whole J/F cabin or own a plane in which you offer Y/J and/or F, that's an impossible guarantee.
BuildingMyBento is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 14, 11:04 pm
  #15  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oxford, Mississippi
Programs: Delta Silver thanks to Million Miles; Choice Plat., point scrounger everywhere
Posts: 1,574
Originally Posted by ricski64 View Post
You actually paid $1330 for an extra seat that no one sat in ??? Mom always said " Some people have more money than brains"
How much extra would two business class seats have cost? On many European airlines "first class" is merely a regular seat with the middle seat blocked, along with some extra service.

Many of us have no need for extra legroom. However, the seats are so narrow that if you have to sit by a stranger it is almost certain that you will be touched constantly, something many of us find repulsive.

I've never paid extra for a "comfort seat," but the practice isn't uncommon, and for those with money it is a way to avoid unwanted touching by strangers at a price far less than that of business class.
Rebelyell is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread