Hear hear!
 

KL's 739 Y seats:

I agree and I argue this isn't a small achievement. The popular media mythology that all Y seats are the same is not believed or accepted by FT members but there does seem to be a pervasive suspicion that the differences in Y seat quality are small and that mean quality levels are very low.

I say it's all too easy with relatively large budgets and strong internal corporate justification to provide comfortable J seating. If your company can't get that right, give it up!

But Y is much, much harder to get right. There's less space, less money, and most importantly, less corporate will to improve the cabin. Some argue it's not even worth spending time or money on Y because it's too difficult to provide even a modicum of comfort.

Well done KL on repudiating the myths and actually providing us with good seats in Y on a common ac type, something that seems beyond almost all other operators (CO? NW?)

I haven't encountered Y on the AF A320 yet but it doesn't sound promising. I've only ever flown EP on AF (772), so that might account for my happy recollection of their comfort and service :p

If I am not mistaken, the reduction was made from 125% to 100% and the PE bonus used to be calculated including the COS bonus, not excluding. A very dramatic reduction indeed.

e.g. on a 1000 mile biz segment:

1000 miles
1000 COS
2500 PE bonus
---------
4500 miles then

vs. now

1000 miles
1000 PE bonus
500 COS
--------
2500 miles now

Well for positive improvements I would list:

Much improved Schengen-area lounge at AMS - with better seating, better range of drinks, better range of snacks (which change throughout the day), much better acoustic isolation of the TV (something missing from so many other lounges, sadly), and better availability of electricity sockets for laptops, etc. I remain really impressed by this lounge.

For negative things I would add:

Website has deteriorated and is now even harder to make a booking, using either Safari or Firefox. Yes, hard to actually give them money! I usually resort to Expedia now.

Techno

Negative:

In many "off" markets such as Turkey, not only has KL been raising their unpublished Biz prices, often by twice as much as they were in recent years, but has also made these fares much more restrictive. To shoot themselves in the foot even more, many of these fares are more expensive than more direct (or direct) rouings with often better airlines.

Personally, I believe the fact remains that KL/FB is one of the most inexpensive airlines in the Skyteam alliance (in Europe) that remains to make Elite Plus level. The airline is about to go down the drain but in the end, they are not bad if your travel is economy. In C, as full fare passenger, I am upset, but whenever I travel in economy they always live up to my expectations. They are not BA when it comes to SPA treatments etc... but then again, you would not make the same level with BA for the same amount of flights/price.

Completely agreed, I think that the general impression is that the crew actually do a good job.

I would like to add my personal view to that. They may be inexpensive, but they are also getting 'cheap'. And that is a shame for what was once considered one of the best airlines in the world.

Anyway...back to the facts now...

The new (I'm not sure how new?) longhaul Y meals I was served on trips to DAR and NBO lately were bit on the small side. Soup on the left, salad on the right and a dessert cake in the middle, is this standard Y grub now? I'd have preferred the ol' pasta or chicken, which was more of a proper meal (in lack of a better word).

KL will tell you that they have done this in order to save the environment. Less food = less weight = lower fuel burn, see?

Johan

I have spent considerable time cleaning up this thread tonight. I deleted several off-topic and trolling posts and removed quotes and references to them.

I commend Zembla for taking the initiative to create an objective and comprehensive list, and think it is a healthy exercise for forum members who may be questioning their loyalty to KLM as well as everyone at AMS should they care to absorb what's been contributed here.

Please keep responses confined to the topic at hand. We are pretty casual about off-topic posts in this forum, but the kind of trolling and navel-gazing going on in this thread was ridiculous.

Improved:

* Breakfast for Economy Class passengers on intercontinental flights
* Amenity kit in WBC
* General Inflight service
* 738's and 739's Y seats
* Award booking
* IFE

Ha ha! LOL.

The contents of the amenity kit have been downgraded over the years.

General inflight service is a subjective view point but I haven't noticed anything to improve it. Food in economy?

Award booking? How has this improved?

* Awards Europe to North America have increased from 80,000 to 90,000.

* I can no longer upgrade from economy to business on cheap fare.

* As the highest tier on Flying Blue/Flying Dutchman I could get any spare seat providing there was one available. Not any more I don't believe.

* Free tickets used to be FREE. You didn't even pay the taxes. Now the taxes run into hundreds of Euros! You even have to pay the fuel surcharge on KLM, which NOT a tax and therefore one shouldn't pay it.



You have a very strange and blinkered view of KLM.

Looking through blue-coloured glasses, me thinks?
I am surprised the word "enhanced" didn't show up or that no reference to a Peter Hartman interview was made.

Aw, come on! How long have you been flying KLM? I can assure you that the amenity kits have been getting worse for each new generation for as long as I can remember, and that's quite a few years. I've yet to see the latest incarnation, but in another post Halfdan describes the contents as "rubbish".

I actually think they should do away with the kits entirely, for a premium cabin they are frankly insulting. Rather put a basket with some toiletry essentials in the lavatory, and distribute socks + slumber shades separately (as they used to do back in the metal box amenity kit days, remember?).

Johan

Hmm, I read. that they have been upgraded very recently.

Unfortunately the bizarre high oil prices and Government taxes are to blame, not the airlines. Out of interest, are there airlines that still offer tickets that are 100% free?

I really do think the FA's have become friendlier, but you are right, that is subjective and a personal experience.

They have upgraded the amenity kits to even worst kits apparently!

I don't know if there are still airlines that offer 100% free tickets, but the other day I reserved a "free ticket" YUL-CDG-MXP-CDG-YUL and the tax bill was 363$$$ (CAD wich is now the same as USA). 363 $ looks like a huge amount of taxes to me! I tried booking a paying fare the same trip (same days, same flights) and there were "only" 260 $ of taxes... Go figure...

Ciao!