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I think the main point here is that KLM just has a strategy that we as Flyertalkers would rather not see:
This does not seem to be SQ's strategy. They seem to focus on connecting passengers as well (EU - Oz e.g.), and they have a strategy that enables them to offer higher fares and use that money to offer a different service model. Unless SQ is doing something terribly wrong I really think this should lead to a better service standard experienced by the majority of the passengers, even though some may feel otherwise. Some of the things I think KL is doing wrong:
Note that my experience is mainly based on flights to Africa and Asia and within Europe. I have little recent experience with KLM to other continents. Kind regards, Maurits |
Originally Posted by AshleyB
On all three flights (AMS-KUL-CGK, HKG-AMS) the most desirable seats were reserved for KL employees. On two of the flights (all full to overbooked) the purser upgraded employees after the doors were closed and moved relations of the employees to the best seats (at the front of the cabin).
Johan |
KLM staff in general are the worst mannered and treat customers with contempt. They love their jobs if it was without having to serve customers. They go out of their way to put friends and family into premium seats and treat their top FF's with an atitude that is now killing the company, They are the inter continental Ryanair with customer service to match.
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I had recently a web award to GRU.
AMS-GRU was in Biz and return GRU Ams in coach the flight was a new 777 Biz class with the new seats was a rather pleasant experience, I personnally prefer the seat and cabin of AF NTC but overall it was good. Service was good even and as the coach cabin was not full several FA came in the biz section when they had finish the service in coach in order to help Return in Coach was horrible: First on a web award ticket and as a plat memebr I have not been able to get a prefered seat at the front. I have been assigned to row 41 and despite many try before and at the airport this was my only choice. The worst part was really the food. The flight left at 9 in the evenning. KLM on this route only serve what they call a snack served in a paper box (but I have never been informed of this before as it was not written on my ticket). Here in that case the snack was 3 leaves of old salad plus a cherry tomato, half a portion of rice with 2 small pieces of beef a cracker and a small cream cheese. No choice at all no additional bread available. I am not very complicated for food in plane but at least I always expect to have a full meal in a plane when flying for 12+ hours. After a full meal and a few glass of wine I can sleep easily. I asked the FA whether they would serve any thing else prior to arrival and the answer was "NO we will serve breakfast 2 hours prior to arrival" so in that case about 9 hours latter. I find this absolutly unbelivable and I have never experience such kind of food service even on some transatlantic fly on US company it is better. Is this the regular way KLM handle food in coach for latine american market? I have flown them 2 years ago to SIN and at that time it was a standard service (one meal with 2 main course choice). Is it specific to that route? The breakfast when it was served was on the top of everything barelly eatable, the industrial omellette was the worst I ever had in a plane. Really at the end of this trip I had the impression too that KLM is heading toward a LCC for long haul and I am not really motivated to fly them again for long distance if I have a viable alternative with AF. |
Curate's egg
KLM is the curate's egg - good in parts. I tend to agree with Sjoerd and broadly prefer KLM, but I have never experienced KLM in economy or SQ in economy for that matter. The much-praised SQ certainly has its faults in C though.
I think the problem is the inconsistency with KLM in C. But when it's good, it's very good. I particularly like their recent food offerings, their cabin staff can be absolutely fantastic - and I think this only comes out when you have a genuine problem that needs sorting out, not 'I was served with the wrong sort of spoon and my bread roll was 2 deg C below the ideal' type problems. I never watch the TV in flight - books are my thing. The seats are fine. The space is great. The connections from UK airports not served by our national carrier(s) are massively helpful. The lounges are fine if full. The prices are vastly better (try booking alternative flights on BA or VS). All purchases are based on what you get for your money - for my money WBC is great value. Techno |
Catering enhancements
Originally Posted by TechnoOenology
I particularly like their recent food offerings.
There have also been some changes to the à la carte breakfast, which now, in addition to the usual choice of hot dishes, offers salmon as one of the cold plate choices. Unfortunately, the catering department had failed to read the menu, so the only choice was cheese or cheese. The sweet breakfast dish was new too, the Amarula custard sauce that has accompanied the pancakes for the last few years has been replaced by an apple and cinamon compote. Just as unfortunately, the catering department had still not read the menu, so the pancakes came without any compote whatsoever. I nevertheless tried a piece of pancake, which tasted like last week's tabloid newspaper. Another new feature is the "eye opener" : "As an eye-opener we will serve several juices and healthy drinks". Unfortunately, the FAs did not succeed in their endeavor to open many eyes. When I woke up about two hours before arrival, more than half the pax were still asleep. Next to me I found a "hot" towel, which might have helped me open my eyes had it only still been hot. Breakfast was being served to those who were sufficiently awake from a trolley that was parked in the galley, in which trolley the breakfasts of all the still sleeping pax were slowly getting cold. Given the quality of hot dish, that hardly mattered. Out of curiosity I enquired about the eye opener, and was given a bottle of "Knor Vie" which contained a very generous 100 ml (!!) of apple/carrot/strawberry juice. The other choices were Actimel and Yakult. Slightly off topic, but I noticed today that catering concept in the Schengen Crown Lounge has change somewhat. The soup machine has been replaced by "home-made" tomato soup with breadsticks, and the usual sanwiches by a rice and vegetable salad. The mixed nuts have gone. A lounge agent told me that the selection now not only changes depending on the time of day, but will vary from day to day as well. All told I think it is an improvement, although I still miss the Chocomel! Completely off topic : I was one of the first to board in JNB yesterday, so I was somewhat surprised to find at least 10 pax already seated in the upper deck WBC cabin when I arrived. I turned out that an entire KL crew had been given priority boarding (the rest were presumably in the nose section). Now I finally understand why this particular flight was listed as J0 C0 already over a month ago, even though there was plenty of availability on flights around that date! Johan |
The new Schengen lounge is truly the best thing about flying KL. It is much nicer than those we have at CDG (2E excepted) in any case. Unfortunately the lounges after passport control are pretty ghastly and usually full to bursting.
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I flew AMS-IAH in J last week and the food was, without question, the nastiest .... ever placed on a tray in front of me on an airplane (this includes an SU flight in Y). Completely inedible. If this is the best they can do, they ought not try. I'm flying NW MSP-AMS tomorrow; it will be interesting to see how different they are.
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May the force be with you
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Originally Posted by johan rebel
I arrived from JNB this morning. The menu cover said "australian experience" in big but lower case letters. I was therefore not at all surprised to discover that the main course choices were Thai Green Curry or Paprika Beef. The starter was Duck liver terrine. Said duck may or may not have ended its days in Australia, it was hard to tell. To be fair, all the wines listed were Australian.
There have also been some changes to the à la carte breakfast, which now, in addition to the usual choice of hot dishes, offers salmon as one of the cold plate choices. Unfortunately, the catering department had failed to read the menu, so the only choice was cheese or cheese. The sweet breakfast dish was new too, the Amarula custard sauce that has accompanied the pancakes for the last few years has been replaced by an apple and cinamon compote. Just as unfortunately, the catering department had still not read the menu, so the pancakes came without any compote whatsoever. I nevertheless tried a piece of pancake, which tasted like last week's tabloid newspaper. Another new feature is the "eye opener" : "As an eye-opener we will serve several juices and healthy drinks". Unfortunately, the FAs did not succeed in their endeavor to open many eyes. When I woke up about two hours before arrival, more than half the pax were still asleep. Next to me I found a "hot" towel, which might have helped me open my eyes had it only still been hot. Breakfast was being served to those who were sufficiently awake from a trolley that was parked in the galley, in which trolley the breakfasts of all the still sleeping pax were slowly getting cold. Given the quality of hot dish, that hardly mattered. Out of curiosity I enquired about the eye opener, and was given a bottle of "Knor Vie" which contained a very generous 100 ml (!!) of apple/carrot/strawberry juice. The other choices were Actimel and Yakult. Slightly off topic, but I noticed today that catering concept in the Schengen Crown Lounge has change somewhat. The soup machine has been replaced by "home-made" tomato soup with breadsticks, and the usual sanwiches by a rice and vegetable salad. The mixed nuts have gone. A lounge agent told me that the selection now not only changes depending on the time of day, but will vary from day to day as well. All told I think it is an improvement, although I still miss the Chocomel! Completely off topic : I was one of the first to board in JNB yesterday, so I was somewhat surprised to find at least 10 pax already seated in the upper deck WBC cabin when I arrived. I turned out that an entire KL crew had been given priority boarding (the rest were presumably in the nose section). Now I finally understand why this particular flight was listed as J0 C0 already over a month ago, even though there was plenty of availability on flights around that date! Johan I always enjoy the fine sense of humor... If I understand you correctly, the a la carte brekfast is supposed to have a choice of three main dishes now. Not bad at all considering that many carriers reduces their choices. During the last years when KLM used to run those country themed menus, I always wondered why they have the menu cards for all flights, but obviously the special dishes ex AMS only... Just found a menucard from the Spanish Food and Wine Festival years ago... Pecan crusted chicken Pasta in tomato sauce Beef tenderloin as the main courses... :rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by alanw
I flew AMS-IAH in J last week and the food was, without question, the nastiest .... ever placed on a tray in front of me on an airplane (this includes an SU flight in Y). Completely inedible. If this is the best they can do, they ought not try. I'm flying NW MSP-AMS tomorrow; it will be interesting to see how different they are.
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Austrian Airlines is really excellent! Between OS and SQ I think we may start switching to Star Alliance. I had yet another dreadful experience this week on KLM (this time in J from the US) and I wonder sometimes if there is anyone home at KLM management. I know they are making money so they must have good financial guys. And their FFP used to be really good. Why don't they hire someone to look after the passengers? The FAs sure don't do it. The chef de cabine the other night was truly ratty. She practically yelled at the man sitting in front of me. Afterwards we all sat quietly like good boys and girls until we got to AMS.
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Originally Posted by AshleyB
Austrian Airlines is really excellent! Between OS and SQ I think we may start switching to Star Alliance. I had yet another dreadful experience this week on KLM (this time in J from the US) and I wonder sometimes if there is anyone home at KLM management. I know they are making money so they must have good financial guys. And their FFP used to be really good. Why don't they hire someone to look after the passengers? The FAs sure don't do it. The chef de cabine the other night was truly ratty. She practically yelled at the man sitting in front of me. Afterwards we all sat quietly like good boys and girls until we got to AMS.
Chef de cabine, sitting throughout the yield, yelling at pax ? Sounds like good old Air France... Remember, the white planes are Air France, the blue ones are KLM... |
Originally Posted by stimpy
If the above post doesn't show us how incredibly diverse Flyertalk is, I don't know what else could. For someone to favor KL over SQ? Sjoerd, either you are paid by KLM to say that, or you just have a very, very, very different view of the world that most of the rest of us. :p
I'm saying nothing..... |
I had another great flight on LH in C. My seatmate and I were talking about how surprised we are at the friendlieness of LH FA's these days. Today I flew SIN-FRA-AMS and it was smiles all around all night, all day. Tomorrow I fly KL C long haul. Then another long haul in AF C. We'll see what happens.
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