PeteW: I think that there is a slight misconception here. The fact that the airlines are in an alliance does not mean that you can pick and mix any flight on any partner and obtain a through fare (unless you want a full Y or C fare, in which case you travel agent can book pretty much anything even if the participating airlines cannot do it). In all alliances, you will still find that not all combinations are possible for discount fares.

Bas: hardly a Skyteam integration issue. CO was already a partner before.

Point taken. But perhaps KLM might wish to lay less stress on its claim (in the FD mailing today) of 'single check-in - check-in only once when connecting to other skyteam flights'. They should note that this only applies to certain (and expensive) ticket classes.

Can anyone clarify the lounge question for PEs? The mailing says that access for PEs to 'KLM Crown Lounges' remains unlimited. Does this mean that it's only at Schiphol that this applies? In practical terms, if I'm flying from NCL with a non-skyteam airline, can I still use the NCL lounge (which isnt exclusively KLM)?

My guess is that you will be OK with non-partner contracted lounges (eg: Servisair lounges, etc...) but not with partner lounges other than NW wordclubs (AF lounges, etc...)

One of many $6,000,000 questions!

According to the lounge access rules KLM PE's have "Entry irrespective of airline flown" at "KLM Crown Lounges Amsterdam & (KLM) Business Class Lounges world-wide" at "All KLM/NWA & Air France operated/codeshared
destinations to/from Amsterdam".

YMMV. - e.g. at DUB, even though KLM operates a code code with EI, you can only use the the EI lounge when flying DUB-AMS. AF uses a shared lounge which you can only use if flying AF.


-- Dambus

NickB, I have to disagree (that is a nice ryhme though too ...)

KLM is marketing the heck out of the benefits of this new SkyTeam partnership (including adjustment of all cabin announcements, no mention of NW partnership anymore!), while not being able to offer the basic services such as seat assignments or combined ticketing. This will backfire big time on them, I am sure. I used to travel to RDU through DTW, as I am getting F upgrades as well as no change of terminals and proper seating assignments in advance. SkyTeam & KLM for now seems to be a fluffy story, i.e. a nice label to carry on marketing & communication materials. The only real integration is the one with NW, and we all know that took already 10 years to get to the point of where we are today.....

For sure at Newcastle for 1 guest for PE, no guest for gold. I know very well as I got fed up of watching arguments between the receptionist and mis-lead FD members, so I took in the FD guide for PE, Gold and silver as well as the mis leading mail shots from FD.

At AMS you can take two which will be good if you can find three seats together and it will make up for the unlucky third person who had to stand outside at Newcastle looking at you through the window.

I heard that KLM will keep lounge access for PE's irrespective of airline flown at their OWN lounges only, i.e. AMS, JNB, DXB and a few others.
For other lounges not owned by KLM, PE's will have to be on a Skyteam flight in order to get access. As far as I know that's the Skyteam Elite-Plus standard. Policy for GE (also Skyteam Elite-plus) remains as is: you have to be on a Skyteam flight to get access to lounge, also for KL owned lounges. For SE (=Skyteam elite) no lounge access unless Business class ticket.

Dare I ask...how does this compare with Star Alliance and OneWorld? Do highest tier members have lounge access irrespective of airline flown?

STar Alliance can be pretty strict in certain airports. I have Platinum with ANA which in Star terms is classed the same as Gold level and LH senator from the comp they offered.

I think overall the Star Alliance in Europe and Asia keep a fairly strict policy which is only fair in my opinion

I am pretty certain you have to be flying a OW airline on that day to have access to an OW lounge ("own" airline or otherwise). You certainly don't get to access an OW lounge if you're flying a ST or *A airline that day. The only difference between top-tier (emerald) and middle tier (sapphire) in OW is which class lounge you get access to (first and business respectively).

The BA business lounges are open to Gold members irrespective of the airline they're flying. The BA web page is less than clear about this, but I remember this having come up in the BA forum. I'm not sure how other OW carriers treat their Golds, but it does look like general OW business lounges are not open to BA Gold unless they're flying OW.

Ah, found the BA thread on lounge access.

I'd read the information as jetfan had - i.e. that PEs now only have lounge access irrespective of the airline flown at the 7 locations identified in the KLM lounge policy. Elsewhere, it's now only if you're flying Skyteam.

If anyone's had any experience of how it's working in practice, it would be useful to know.

I have used KLM or NW lounges all over the world when not flying KLM without any problem but I bed anything you like this will change very soon as its one of the few perks still remaining and I know lounge access is expensive to airlines and I often think that guy who just came in, downed a coffee and went out again has just cost an airline about $15.00

I used the lounge in HKG with my PE card when flying SQ to SFO in July and in HAM when flying LH 3-4 weeks ago. I also somehow fear this will be 'enhanced' out in the near future.

It's a great little perk to be honest ^.

And how long until they merge these with the AF or Skyteam lounges at those airports? At JNB the KL and AF lounges are adjacent and could be merged physically.

At DXB KL will now let just about anybody use the lounge.

johan

yeah especially if they dont spend any money with KLM and can make a point of letting the loyal passengers know they are in there for free