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-   -   Self-quarantine in netherlands (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/klm-flying-dutchman/2028159-self-quarantine-netherlands.html)

Romanianflyer Dec 23, 2020 2:20 pm


Originally Posted by mfkne (Post 32908082)
Effective 29 December, all travelers travelling to the Netherlands by air must present a negative PCR test result: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwe...ederland.There is a plan to also extend this to travellers arriving by bus or rail.

That includes Dutch nationals returning from abroad? Even those going to let's say Tenerife for a week and then want to return home?

Would completely kill off all that is remaining of the tourism industry (travel agencies, tour operators and the like).

mfkne Dec 23, 2020 2:23 pm


Originally Posted by Ditto (Post 32908138)
It seems to only be applicable to flights from outside EU / Schengen and excludes a few "safe countries" such as Australia, Japan, South Korea and few others.

It apples to all countries that are risk areas, including the EU:


Het kabinet heeft besloten, na overleg met de sector en veiligheidsregio’s, dat per 29 december 2020, 00.01 uur luchtvaartmaatschappijen, die naar Nederland vliegen vanuit alle gebieden waar een hoog COVID-risico geldt (zowel binnen als buiten de EU), verplicht worden om alle passagiers vóór het boarden te controleren op de aanwezigheid van een negatieve PCR-testuitslag.
(source; https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwe...vliegreizigers)

All countries that are orange or red on this map (https://www.nederlandwereldwijd.nl/d...elke-kleurcode) are risk areas - i.e. this applies for all travellers travelling to the Netherlands by plane from anywhere.

Romanianflyer Dec 23, 2020 2:23 pm


Originally Posted by Ditto (Post 32908138)
No, This is a new requirement, the correct link (in Dutch) - https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwe...naar-nederland
It seems to only be applicable to flights from outside EU / Schengen and excludes a few "safe countries" such as Australia, Japan, South Korea and few others.

Unlike I think most countries that requires a PCR test, the requirement here is for it to taken no later than 72hrs before arrival in The Netherlands, good luck for those who have lengthy connections on their way.

According to 'Telegraaf' it is for all countries on the "high risk list" (orange list countries) - which at the moment is the entire world according to the Dutch Government.

https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/1766...risicogebieden

If true, it would also apply for flights in Schengen? They clearly got mad, high on drugs, or both...

westi2002 Dec 23, 2020 2:34 pm

Dutch government as always confusing. In the factsheet (in Dutch) is mentioned that negative PCR test is required for all travellers from EU/Schengen area as of 25-12-2020 0:00.

In the factsheet however is a link to another site stating the negative test is required as of 29-12-2020 0:00.

Romanianflyer Dec 23, 2020 2:39 pm

I also wonder on which basis they are going to enforce their "random checks on arrival" and "border checks for bus/trains"..

Deporting people back? Fining them? On which legal basis? As far as I know there is none. There isn't even any for people who don't go into the "strongly advised 10 days of self-isolation on arrival".

I see how they want to shift the responsibility to airlines to check passengers before boarding (and how they can legally do this) - but the checks at the actual border? I'm highly curious!

mfkne Dec 23, 2020 2:44 pm

The fun begins with delayed or cancelled flights - as mentioned above the 72 hours are before arrival, and are extended to 96 hours if the traveller can prove the delay is not their fault. What happens after 96 hours, I wonder. Do they send you back to where you came from to make another test and try again in a few days?

Ditto Dec 23, 2020 2:51 pm


Originally Posted by mfkne (Post 32908200)
It apples to all countries that are risk areas, including the EU:

(source; https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwe...vliegreizigers)

All countries that are orange or red on this map (https://www.nederlandwereldwijd.nl/d...elke-kleurcode) are risk areas - i.e. this applies for all travellers travelling to the Netherlands by plane from anywhere.


Originally Posted by Romanianflyer (Post 32908202)
According to 'Telegraaf' it is for all countries on the "high risk list" (orange list countries) - which at the moment is the entire world according to the Dutch Government.

https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/1766...risicogebieden

If true, it would also apply for flights in Schengen? They clearly got mad, high on drugs, or both...

Ahh yes, in a way typical with the Dutch Government, they have a different page for flights from the EU / Schengen and a different one for flights from outside (and a different one for UK/ZA, but at least that one has been there since yesterday or so)

Ditto Dec 23, 2020 2:52 pm


Originally Posted by mfkne (Post 32908250)
The fun begins with delayed or cancelled flights - as mentioned above the 72 hours are before arrival, and are extended to 96 hours if the traveller can prove the delay is not their fault. What happens after 96 hours, I wonder. Do they send you back to where you came from to make another test and try again in a few days?

The more fun begins considering they also require it for transit passengers, I suppose their target is to make Schiphol a ghost-town.

Romanianflyer Dec 23, 2020 2:58 pm


Originally Posted by Ditto (Post 32908271)
The more fun begins considering they also require it for transit passengers, I suppose their target is to make Schiphol a ghost-town.

It's super smart politics!

Kick KLM in the n*ts so they are bleeding dry, only to have to give them more government subsidy to survive.

Really, our national government is made up out of idiots and incompetents.

mpkz Dec 23, 2020 3:20 pm


Originally Posted by the810 (Post 32907924)
Let's assume the answer is someone in NZ (I don't necessarily agree, but for the sake of argument). Is it because of better epimologic situation or because fewer restrictions in place. In other words, if the Netherlands adopted same rules as New Zealand (minus border restrictions), would people in NL be less free than people in NZ?

Being in Sweden, I would never change it for a country which aims for eradications. Yes, we need to keep our distance and somewhat limit our social life, but it feels much more sustainable than risking a hardcore lockdown everytime one odd case appears somewhere.

The lack of restrictions in NZ is a function of the epidemiological situation which itself is a function of the tight measures they took early. NL would be better off with these measures, especially if they had been implemented earlier. Btw border monitoring (not necessarily closures) are a key part of this strategy. NZ is an extreme example in that they want absolutely zero COVID, South Korea etc. are more lax but still have the goal to always drive infections down compared to the NL which seems to only act when healthcare is threatened.

mpkz Dec 23, 2020 3:23 pm


Originally Posted by Romanianflyer (Post 32908289)
It's super smart politics!

Kick KLM in the n*ts so they are bleeding dry, only to have to give them more government subsidy to survive.

Really, our national government is made up out of idiots and incompetents.

This is such a minor measure compared to the damage the government caused to the economy by not cracking down on the virus earlier.

Is it a bit pointless given that NL is one of the highest prevalence regions in the world? Sure. But the government has repeatedly shown that they are unable to pass necessary legislation (e.g. masks) on time, so maybe having this law in place from a "crisis" will help in the spring if the situation improves in the NL but not elsewhere.

Romanianflyer Dec 23, 2020 3:41 pm


Originally Posted by mpkz (Post 32908354)
This is such a minor measure compared to the damage the government caused to the economy by not cracking down on the virus earlier.

Is it a bit pointless given that NL is one of the highest prevalence regions in the world? Sure. But the government has repeatedly shown that they are unable to pass necessary legislation (e.g. masks) on time, so maybe having this law in place from a "crisis" will help in the spring if the situation improves in the NL but not elsewhere.

Sure I agree that having laws in place might help - and that the government should have taken more strict measures at an earlier stage.

But why isn't there still a law to actually enforce the 10-day home isolation which is still a "recommendation"? Heck, even if you tested positive with the corona virus you could still roam the streets of Amsterdam freely as there is no specific law or enforcement in place to stop you.

That is my biggest problem with all of this. The government has lost all touch when it comes to (non)-implemented measures and the effect they may have. What is the purpose of demanding a negative PCR test for connecting passengers, for example? I can't see it given that in-flight infection rates are close to 0.

Goldorak Dec 23, 2020 3:41 pm

Sorry, but where do you see that it applies to transit pax ? I cannot see that anywhere in the Dutch pages (that I translated with Google Trad) or in the English pages. Thanks for the help. :)

FYI, the Dutch govt is implementing the exact same rules that are in place in France for months. The only difference is that, in France, for some destinations, it is mandatory to have the test to board the flight, but for some other destinations the test can be done on arrival in France at the airport. Also, in France, it is not applicable to transit pax.

PS : I think those discussions about test requirements should be moved to the other thread. Thank you to the Moderators.

Romanianflyer Dec 23, 2020 3:47 pm


Originally Posted by Goldorak (Post 32908392)
Sorry, but where do you see that it applies to transit pax ?I cannot see that anywhere in the Dutch pages (that I translated with Google Trad) or in the English pages. Thanks for the help
FYI, the Dutch govt is implementing the exact same rules that are in place in France for months. The only difference is that, in France, for some destinations, it is mandatory to have the test to board the flight, but for some others the test can be done on arrival in France at the airport. Also, in France, it is not applicable to transit pax.

PS : I think those discussions about test requirements should be moved to the other thread. Thanks to Mods

I'm quoting from the PDF here on the government website:

https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwe...vliegreizigers

"Daarom heeft het kabinet uw Kamer op 22 december jl. geïnformeerd het tonen van een negatieve PCRtestuitslag voorafgaand aan de reis voor alle vliegpassagiers uit alle gebieden waar een hoog COVID-risico geldt, zo spoedig mogelijk te willen inregelen. Dit geldt ook voor Nederlanders die uit deze gebieden naar Nederland (terug)reizen"

=

"That's why the government informed parliament on 22nd December that it wants to implement as soon as possible the [obligation] to show a negative PCR test to all flight passengers before they start their journey from an area with a high COVID risk."

All passengers = transit passengers as well - which is also what Dutch media is reporting. Currently the entire world is a high risk COVID area according to our government - as all countries are on the "orange" list (high risk/only essential travels) or even in the "red" category (do not travel).

One thing which we are lucky about. This government notice says that our cabinet wants to implement this law. Given how fast our government has been implementing corona laws so far, that could hopefully mean this will only come into effect somewhere in 2022 :D

europeflyer Dec 23, 2020 3:55 pm


Originally Posted by Goldorak (Post 32908392)
Sorry, but where do you see that it applies to transit pax ? I cannot see that anywhere in the Dutch pages (that I translated with Google Trad) or in the English pages. Thanks for the help. :)

"Negatieve testuitslag op doorreis via de luchthaven
Reizigers die op de luchthaven in Nederland aankomen en per vliegtuig direct doorreizen, hebben ook een negatieve testuitslag nodig."

In English, via Google:
"Negative test result on transit through the airport
Travelers arriving at the airport in the Netherlands and traveling directly by plane also need a negative test result."

For non-Schengen flights, it can be found here: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwe...de-eu-schengen

And for Schengen flights, it can be found here: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwe...de-eu-schengen

In short, as of 29 December you need a negative PCR test before boarding any flight to Amsterdam. The only exceptions are flights from Iceland, the Dutch Caribbean, Australia, Japan, New Zealand, Rwanda, Singapore, South Korea, Thailand and China (https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwe...veilige-landen)


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