KL652 suddenly canceled. NO explanation.

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Old Feb 10, 19, 11:07 pm
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KL652 suddenly canceled. NO explanation.

As title states, SU1 and I were on DL9446 / KL652 on a KLM 789 IAD>AMS and just received the cancellation notice via text. No explanation. Was looking forward to flying J in their 789. Delta is working on an ATL>AMS flight in D1 for us so we can keep our AMS>NBO 1K / 4E hand-selected seats on a 744 (my first-ever 747 flight!).

Can't find any info on why the flight was cancelled -- weather, equipment, etc?
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Old Feb 10, 19, 11:19 pm
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Looks like inbound from AMS (KL 651) was canceled. Flightradar24 is showing the frame as PH-BHP -- came in a few minutes late from SFO but no indication on EF about the issue with KL 651 (and of course 652 which can't fly with 651 canceled)
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Old Feb 10, 19, 11:39 pm
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Keep in mind since KLM was the operating carrier, you're eligible for EU compensation.
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Old Feb 11, 19, 12:08 am
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Could it be some aftereffect from the AMS wind advisory that Delta posted on 2/9/19?
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Old Feb 11, 19, 12:27 am
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Well... a significant outbound change was made. It unilaterally went from an all KLM IAD>AMS>NBO to now a mixed bag of DL8631 / AF55 77W IAD>CDG in Z and DL9159 KENYA Air 788 in J.

So, we go from all KLM 789/744 to AF/Kenya and I get my first-ever 747 flight yanked away.

I am Charlie Brown and DL/SkyTeam is Lucy with the football... yet again.
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Old Feb 11, 19, 12:45 am
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Originally Posted by TheHorta View Post
Well... a significant outbound change was made. It unilaterally went from an all KLM IAD>AMS>NBO to now a mixed bag of DL8631 / AF55 77W IAD>CDG in Z and DL9159 KENYA Air 788 in J.

So, we go from all KLM 789/744 to AF/Kenya and I get my first-ever 747 flight yanked away.

I am Charlie Brown and DL/SkyTeam is Lucy with the football... yet again.
1) If the routing isn't to your liking, you can certainly contact the ticketing carrier and get re-booked on a different routing of your choosing given the circumstances.
2) KLM should be paying you 600 EUR, which may help comfort the blow
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Old Feb 11, 19, 3:33 am
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Hold yiur horses on EU261 as this involves a cancellation there are various timescales that need to be met including if an earlier departure is involved as well as the difference between the actual and originally scheduled arrival times before EU261 kicks in. Also the OP would need to apply for it. kLM won’t just pay up.and of course the reason for the original cancellation is also important in determining if anything is due,

if you have been rebooked then that shows EU261 is working as the airline is doing all it can to minimise the delay.
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Old Feb 11, 19, 4:54 am
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Originally Posted by steveholt View Post
KLM should be paying you 600 EUR, which may help comfort the blow
Maybe, depending on the timing of the rebooking and underlying reason for the cancellation
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Old Feb 11, 19, 4:55 am
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Originally Posted by TheHorta View Post
Well... a significant outbound change was made. It unilaterally went from an all KLM IAD>AMS>NBO to now a mixed bag of DL8631 / AF55 77W IAD>CDG in Z and DL9159 KENYA Air 788 in J.

So, we go from all KLM 789/744 to AF/Kenya and I get my first-ever 747 flight yanked away.

I am Charlie Brown and DL/SkyTeam is Lucy with the football... yet again.
OP if you aren't happy with these flights then its a lot of money on something you don't want. Can you travel the next day, perhaps keeping your original routing? Otherwise, you're entitled to an absolute refund, so you might want to see what else is out there.

Originally Posted by UKtravelbear View Post
Hold yiur horses on EU261 as this involves a cancellation there are various timescales that need to be met including if an earlier departure is involved as well as the difference between the actual and originally scheduled arrival times before EU261 kicks in. Also the OP would need to apply for it. kLM won’t just pay up.and of course the reason for the original cancellation is also important in determining if anything is due,

if you have been rebooked then that shows EU261 is working as the airline is doing all it can to minimise the delay.
OP, this is really important! You could get 0, 300 or 600 euros compensation per person, depending on the reason for the initial cancellation (generally weather gets 0), and as UKtravelbear says, then dependent on the new itinerary offered. Personally, if offered a rebooking that qualifies for compensation, I'd take it (if you get the agents to look harder, they might just find one that's below the compensation threshold and then you lose!).
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Old Feb 11, 19, 4:57 am
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It is much harder for an operating carrier to claim extraordinary circumstances, if that circumstance doesn't affect the actual flight, but the cancellation results from a knock-on effect.
Wind in AMS in the winter time -> this is hardly an extraordinary circumstance.
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Old Feb 11, 19, 5:02 am
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Originally Posted by warakorn View Post
It is much harder for an operating carrier to claim extraordinary circumstances, if that circumstance doesn't affect the actual flight, but the cancellation results from a knock-on effect.
Wind in AMS in the winter time -> this is hardly an extraordinary circumstance.
I mean this is the problem with AMS. There are tons of wind turbines everywhere, but somehow when the wind blows in winter at AMS you're led to believe its extraordinary.
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Old Feb 11, 19, 5:08 am
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If the outbound was delayed by weather (and it still counts as extraordinary even though it snows and is windy in Europe in February) then the inbound can still be covered by the EU261 exemption but a third flight involving that plane would so e.g the plane was due to fly

AMS - IAD
IAD - AMS
AMS - HKG

If the first flight was delayed by weather then the second would be excluded from EU261 but not the next flight to AMS to HKG

If the OP could supply the details of the original and replacement flight times then they would get more tailored advice.
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Old Feb 11, 19, 5:11 am
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Originally Posted by UKtravelbear View Post
If the outbound was delayed by weather (and it still counts as extraordinary even though it snows and is windy in Europe in February) then the inbound can still be covered by the EU261 exemption but a third flight involving that plane would so e.g the plane was due to fly

AMS - IAD
IAD - AMS
AMS - HKG

If the first flight was delayed by weather then the second would be excluded from EU261 but not the next flight to AMS to HKG

If the OP could supply the details of the original and replacement flight times then they would get more tailored advice.
Also the AF-KLM 787's have GE engines, not Rolls Royce, so that's not a factor here. I guess the more practical problem for the OP is what s/he would do if KLM refuses an initial, justified compensation claim. Where to then?
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Old Feb 11, 19, 5:18 am
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Originally Posted by cauchy View Post
Also the AF-KLM 787's have GE engines, not Rolls Royce, so that's not a factor here. I guess the more practical problem for the OP is what s/he would do if KLM refuses an initial, justified compensation claim. Where to then?
Just curious . . . . .

What difference does GE vs RR engines make?
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Old Feb 11, 19, 5:24 am
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Originally Posted by davetravels View Post
Just curious . . . . .

What difference does GE vs RR engines make?
Significant restrictions have been placed on 787 aircraft using certain Rolls Royce engines due to parts wearing out early. Airlines stuck with Rolls Royce engines have had to park a number of their latest aircraft, and arrange leases to cover the shortfall.

For example: https://www.ft.com/content/972b4392-...4-c32129756dd8

British Airways has been forced to ground one of its new 787 Dreamliner planes at Heathrow airport for nearly a year because of problems with Rolls-Royce engines, in a sign of how the issue is affecting the world’s airlines. BA is among several airlines, including Virgin Atlantic, ANA and Norwegian Air Shuttle, which have been affected by issues on the Trent 1000 engines that power the 787 Dreamliner.
Airlines have been claiming these engine problems are extraordinary circumstances.
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