Thysk

Great idea, why did I not think of that? While I'm at it, might as well pony up the money for my own gulfstream, so that I can't be bothered by other pax or ignorant FA's.
Could you please state which medicines you are taking to get in this state of mind, as I (and for that, probably the rest of this forum) would love to be able to have that same mindset!
"Boy, it sure is an inconvenience that the flights between AMS and CDG are cancelled, but I can always walk or take a bicycle to get there! Will even be able to catch some extra sun on my way there"

So NO, there is NO ALTERNATIVE. Here I am, with my La Premičre ticket in Amsterdam, after having experienced the wonderful AF lounge at CDG, then I show up to THE FLAGSHIP of KLM and this is my experience. Mediocre food, drinks at a premium price and the "fine dining" at a price level that resembles a proper Michelin restaurant. What message are they trying to send? "Dear valued customer, thank you so much for flying our airline. In order to get the complete Dutch experience, please be prepared to shell out extra cash in our #1/flagship lounge. You will see the livery of KLM inside, however will feel like you're in a Ryanair environment!"

Yes, the lounge is ok, comparable with "the nicer domestic skyclubs", but it is completely new now. Wait for 2 years when the first wear&tear sets in.

And no, I'm not going to pay 250€ to get into the privium lounge, or 35€ to get into the Aspire lounge, nor will I visit the regular pier and buy something from one of the stalls. I should not have to on a J/F ticket or on the highest FF-level.

So please direct me to the SkyTeam lounge at AMS that lives up to the marketing lingo that KLM is using and lives up to the name FLAGSHIP, otherwise accept that there are NO ALTERNATIVES and we will continue to criticize the product until it becomes what it should be.

speed.skater

Stopped reading here.

LOL, what is the relevance of F lounges overseas when we're talking about a C lounge in Europe?

Who is really better among Europe's major carriers?

LH. I think not. (I'm LH SEN based in a *A hub and visit the LH C and SEN lounges in the hubs dozens of times a year.) LX. No. Severe over-crowding. Cooking-to-order completely overhyped considering the mediocre results. OS. No.

BA. The GC flagship properties have a few things going for them. But so has the Crown lounge. It's not that GCs are in a different league.

IB. Noooooooo! I hate the monotony of Velazquez F&B and the chaos during peak times.

AF. Maybe it's somewhat better, but it's in the same ballpark.

TK. They have a few things going for them but they are only a competitor in a few markets (i.e., long-haul going east).

SK. I like their flagship gold lounge but don't think it's in a different league from KL.

TP. Nooo. Terrible, just terrible. No privacy in the lounge. Overcrowding. Dirty showers. F&B is alright, though.

I don't think I need to continue. No major European carrier really stands out IYAM. If anything, KL is above-average. If anyone in Europe stands out, it's probably the non-European carriers which have decent C lounges in LHR: CX in T3, UA in T2. But even there you could find criticism: The UC in LHR could benefit from a renovation (e.g., most USB ports are broken by now).

NickB

You have once more misread my post and projected onto it things that are not there.If you read what I wrote, I did not compare the HKG CX Pier F lounge to the AMS KL non-Schengen Crown lounge. I compared the language used by CX about the Pier F lounge to the language used by KL about the NS Crown lounge. My point was to illustrate that the language about the NS Crown lounge had a level of pomposity that was way beyond standard marketing blah blah. Now, you can afford some degree of excessive puffery when you have a genuinely outstanding product. However, when your product is rather mundane, pomposity just looks deeply ridiculous. That was my point.

As to whether the NS Crown lounge is comparable to other "flagship" lounges in Europe, this was not really what my post was about but, on that terrain, I think that we will have to agree to disagree. IMO, the catering in Crown lounges is manifestly sub-par but if it floats your boat or at least does not offend your tastebuds anymore than other "flagship" lounges, then good for you.

HalconBCN

Bottom line is, KLM renovated its "flagship" lounge promising customers the moon, the stars and the sky.

The result? New things nobody really needed (a paid restaurant) occupying tons of space, and a dark, drab, overcrowded space on the lower level with the same prison-style f&b as before, albeit served in fancy pots.

I actually prefer the old Schengen lounge to this new one. It's simple, easy to navigate and not pretentious.

Since the expertise to design a fabulous lounge already exists within AFKLM (cf. L lounge in CDG), one wonders why KL decided to "do its own thing" and reinvent the wheel, creating a lounge product nobody wanted or needed.

Neilgcal

Is the lounge now fully operational? The website now shows a full map of the lounge and there is no note of access restrictions. Anyone got any pics of the newly opened sections if this is the case?

caliform

I suddenly sympathize severely for the lounge staff that has to put up with people that can be this entitled or get their panties in this much of a bunch over a free lounge product.

KLM used completely standard marketing language and delivered a perfectly acceptable lounge. In fact, in the rant above the only thing I heard was that the free food and drink was 'subpar' and that perhaps in several years it will be worn down and crummy. OK. The Air France lounges are fine. They're nothing exceptional. Perhaps they got a bit more light. Perhaps on some days between the two, one's food offering is better. You guys are pretending like they're trying to house you in a Syrian refugee camp. Get a grip.

Meneer Guggenheimer

I thought the old one was fine. It only needed to be made bigger. The new one with the not yet opened part is probably to small. It is sometimes very very crowded.

I like it KISS: keep it simple stupid.

but I am not a hipster and probably that is what they want with the lounge.. hipsterish deluxe!

HalconBCN

To be fair, the lounge is not "free" - we are paying for it indirectly through our tickets and/or our loyalty programs.

Also, the marketing language was not "standard" - see example below. KLM's mission was to create the "most attractive lounge in the world". It failed, unless the extra space being opened is really something special.

irishguy28

Free?

I thought Amsterdam was famous for the "paid" variety...

caliform

In my experience it can go both ways on a night in Amsterdam. Wait, what was the topic again?

NickB

Ah. So saying that there is a mismatch between the flowery prose that KL uses to describe the new NS Crown lounge and the rather more prosaic reality means that one is "entitled"... nay, worse than that: "this entitled"?

Ah...So saying that the lounge is under-whelming, mundane, ordinary means that one is describing it as a Syrian refugee camp and that one needs to "get a grip"?

Well, to me, talking of "co-creation facilities" in the Dutch mountain area of the lounge is pretentious twaddle that goes beyond the usual emphatic language that is typical of marketing communications. If you regard this as completely ordinary marketing language, that really is no skin off my nose and I have no issue with us agreeing to disagree. Mind you, I think I can see how somebody that equates "mundane" to "similar to the conditions prevailing a Syrian refugee camp" might have a slightly different expectation of what is "standard" marketing language to what my own expectation would be.

Well, I guess that we will have to disagree on this too. I do no think that on "some days" the KL AMS NS lounge food offering is better and "on some days" the AF CDG L lounge offering is better. To me, the KL lounge food offering is patently consistently sub-par compared to the AF 2E lounges (or, for that matter, a number of other European lounges).
Does that mean that I regard the AF L lounge as "exceptional"? No, I don't. I think it is a solid lounge but I would not regard it as exceptional nor have I said or suggested that it was. Does that mean that I regard the KL NS lounge as "unacceptable"? Neither. In fact, I would probably agree with the "perfectly acceptable" description that you give: it is 'perfectly acceptable'. That is tantamount to saying that it is ordinary, run of the mill, mundane, nothing special, all of which qualifiers I would have no qualms about, hence why I find pretending that it is anything other than ordinary a tad ridiculous. But that does not mean that I regard it as on a par with other lounges. If I engage in the thought experiement of asking myself: if I had the choice between the KL NS Crown lounge and any of the AF 2E lounges, the BA FLounge at T3 or T5 at LHR, the SEN lounges at ZRH, MUC or FRA, the IB Sala Velasquez, the AZ Non-Schengen Case Italia in FCO Terminal 3, the VS ClubHouse at LHR or the AY HEL Platinum Wing, what would be the likelihood of choosing the KL lounge? I have to say that it would not be very high. To me, the KL NS lounge feels below these.

Others may feel differently, of course. It does not follow from this that not being especially impressed with the KL NS lounge must be regarded as the tell-tale sign of an individual who feels unduly "entitled." Would it be too much to ask fellow FTers not to make such unwarranted accusations?

irishguy28

You seem to be mixing up your Schiphol lounges!!

https://www.nsinternational.nl/en/ns...ational-lounge

NickB

"NS" as in "Non-Schengen", rather than as in "Nederlandse Spoorwegen", as I would not be quite sure what a Nederlandse Spoorwegen Crown lounge would actually be.

CoMooter

Was not yesterday...still just the new half.

I know this is well discussed already, but went to the restaurant yesterday for my 20 Euro breakfast since it was so quiet in there. The eggs hollandaise was excellent, but tiny - more of an appetizer than anyone’s definition of a real breakfast.

Not a lot of value (besides being the most quiet place in the lounge) there, to match my previous assessment just after it opened. Also was a bit surprised to see the bar was charging for about anything you might want to drink - hope the Heineken stays free.

KL appears to be following the recent DL model (and the old UA one) in their lounges. If you want anything decent to drink - pay up.

HalconBCN

Fully agree. We should be able to have a healthy debate on this forum without stooping to insults or describing posts as "rants" when we don't agree with their content.