First class coming?

Old Jun 18, 08, 9:44 am
  #1  
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First class coming?

Barger is quoted today at the JP Morgan conference saying with the success of EML, a seperate class maybe introduced. How does everyone feel about that?


I am for it if it starts to attract more business flyers. They want a power port, a drink, and boarding priority along with miles.
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Old Jun 18, 08, 9:49 am
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Here is a link to the Bloomberg article:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...5RI&refer=home
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Old Jun 18, 08, 11:50 am
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At the DO I was pretty much laughed out of the room when I asked about it. Either she was very good at misdirection or it would be a pretty big surprise for them to make the change. It would be particularly interesting to see if they keep EML and also add EMBR (even more butt room) seats, or if they scale back on the EML to keep the number of seats at 150.

Trading in 2 rows of 6 for 3 rows of 4 keeps the same number of seats, but requires an extra row to be squeezed in. The front of the plane has 288" of seats in it. If the EMBR seats will have 38" pitch, which I think is likely, then that would take up 114" of the pitch available. Four more rows of regular EML is another 152", leaving space for not even another row of regular seats (288-152-114 = 22"). If the scrap EML (except fro the exit row) then they'd have 114" for EMBR and 174" of regular seats, which is 5 rows. That's still one row fewer than they have today in the front half of the plane, so you're down six seats.

They could do 3 rows of 40" pitch, 7 rows of 38" pitch (through the exit row) and then reduce the back half of the plane to 32" to match the E190s. That would allow them to add 3 rows in the back half. That's 25 total rows, but still 6 seats short. Maybe intermixing the EML and normal seats would help account for the issue that the exit rows have to be where they are with the pitch that they have, but it would be difficult to do it without losing seats.
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Old Jun 18, 08, 12:07 pm
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I think it sux that they don't let you redeem trueBlue points towards EML seats without paying extra $30 per seat. (JFK - SXM)

Wonder if the proposed first class will require additional points or more money in addition to the 100 reward points.

--Russ
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Old Jun 18, 08, 12:12 pm
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Originally Posted by JerseyVics View Post
Wonder if the proposed first class will require additional points or more money in addition to the 100 reward points.
Undoubtedly it would. But it would be a clear benefit if you could upgrade into the wider seats for, say, 25 TB points.

If the motive for a sort-of F product is to attract more business travelers, I say again that lack of F is not nearly as big a problem as infrequent flights, no interlining, and TB's overall lameness including no international redemption.
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Old Jun 18, 08, 1:11 pm
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Originally Posted by JerseyVics View Post
I think it sux that they don't let you redeem trueBlue points towards EML seats without paying extra $30 per seat. (JFK - SXM)

Wonder if the proposed first class will require additional points or more money in addition to the 100 reward points.

--Russ
Why should you get EML for free on a reward redemption? The redemption is for a seat. The payment is for the upgrade to EML. If they introduce this and do not charge extra - both for paid tix and reward travel - then it defeats the whole point of generating additional revenue.

Of course, introducing EMBR seats is a big step towards getting rid of the egalitarian attitude that B6 has tried to engender in their service and attitude. EML was a very small step compared to EMBR.
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Old Jun 18, 08, 5:39 pm
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Well this comes as a complete opposite to what we asked with the introduction of the EML section. I don't know if Dave was asked directly but the response to the first class question was that at the time the advantage was for us to not put in a seperate class of service. It was figured that more people would benefit from a seperate section that they could upgrade to for a minimal charge.

Perhaps Lufthansa is pushing for a seperate class for their customers who might transfer to us if the codeshare is started. Or possbly with the massive reductions in service from other legacy carriers there is a lot of business customers who are looking to take their business elsewhere and while the EML section is great they are looking for the 2x2 seating and the other benefits that come with a seperate class of service.

Dave has said that we need to attract more and more business customers who travel no matter what the economy is doing. This is a sure way to do that.
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Old Jun 18, 08, 6:03 pm
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Originally Posted by JetBlueFA View Post
... and while the EML section is great they are looking for the 2x2 seating and the other benefits that come with a separate class of service.
Why would it need to be 2x2? wouldn't you be able to do a 3x2 to get a little extra room without sacrificing too many seats?

That and a real Frequent Flyer/Elite program would bring my 180k + miles a year back from Delta and Continental.
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Old Jun 18, 08, 6:15 pm
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Originally Posted by najay View Post
Why would it need to be 2x2? wouldn't you be able to do a 3x2 to get a little extra room without sacrificing too many seats?

That and a real Frequent Flyer/Elite program would bring my 180k + miles a year back from Delta and Continental.
Doing 3x2 and keeping the seats equal width would mess up the aisle. Or you could have 3 EML on one side and 2 EMBR on the other and only lose one seat per row, but you still lose seats.

I think that the real FF program is a bigger deal than F, particularly for the short and mid-con flights.
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Old Jun 18, 08, 6:17 pm
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Originally Posted by sbm12 View Post
Doing 3x2 and keeping the seats equal width would mess up the aisle. Or you could have 3 EML on one side and 2 EMBR on the other and only lose one seat per row, but you still lose seats.
Unless B6 adopts the flexible configuration seats some of the European airlines use.
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Old Jun 18, 08, 6:45 pm
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EML on one side, upgrade for $30 or 6 TrueBlue points, EMBR seats on the other, upgrade for $50 or 12 TrueBlue points (transcon), offer elite lane access for FF, and maybe priority boarding (probably asking to much as it is), and you would have a program that would win my business back.

You would also have a program that would attract Tall/POS customers.
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Old Jun 18, 08, 7:32 pm
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Yes, they did laugh at you when you asked my question at the DO. Well, maybe this means that they will not only have a first class but BOB as well LOL.

I think First Class ticket costs would have to make up the price of the missing seats, for instance if they lost 6 seats the price would be the average for those 6 seats divided by the number of EMBR seats added to the current cost of a regular seat and maybe some additional profit.
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Old Jun 18, 08, 7:51 pm
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Originally Posted by YVR Cockroach View Post
Unless B6 adopts the flexible configuration seats some of the European airlines use.
You mean regular Y seats with the middle blocked and an armrest/table inserted? They might try that and call it "F" but the seat isn't actually any wider, and that's what people are talking about, not a blocked middle seat.

Interesting idea on elite lane for FF, but how do you define that? There has to be some metric other than enrolled in the TrueBlue program, right?
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Old Jun 18, 08, 8:31 pm
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Originally Posted by najay View Post
Why would it need to be 2x2? wouldn't you be able to do a 3x2 to get a little extra room without sacrificing too many seats?

That and a real Frequent Flyer/Elite program would bring my 180k + miles a year back from Delta and Continental.
At the B6 JFK tour, we were told by the person in charge of True Blue that B6 didn't want people to fly them for the FF program benefits, but for the B6 experience.

And that to me misses the point of hooking folks into the allure of a program. I'm a Platinum AAdvantage member not because of AA's old fleet or at seat comfort (with LRTC) or old school video screens or paid snacks in Y, but because the tangible benefits of their AAdavantage program make up for the lackluster Y class product.
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Old Jun 18, 08, 9:14 pm
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jetBlue planes lack hot food catering, which would make a true first class difficult to achieve.
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