Will CO match B6?
Jun 30, 2006 | 4:16 pm
#16
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
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I just returned from my LGA-HOU on ATA and while everyone at ATA was actually very nice, I must say that I can't wait for B6 to start this route.
First of all, there is the issue of price. It's interesting that when TZ serves LGA-HOU twice a day with its 737-800's, CO doesn't blink an eyelash and continues to charge astronomical, outrageous fares.
I took TZ because the absolute lowest fare I could find on CO was a whopping $818 r.t. (TZ cost $376 r.t.).
Now, when B6's announces 3 daily JFK-HOU flights on E-190's, CO immediately lowers its price to match B6.
Of course, it's no surprise why CO pays more attention to B6 than to TZ. B6 is a ground-breaking, revolutionary product which is changing the basic idea of airline travel.
TZ, on the other hand, has a long way to go to be breaking any ground.
I just completed my LGA-HOU on TZ and the experience was actually very instructive for anyone who might start to take the quality of B6 for granted.
I have been flying out of LGA for many decades and it has become one of my favorite airports. When you fly TZ, though, it's a painful reminder of the chaotic old days of LGA.
TZ shares the B concourse with AirTrain and these two discount carriers move a mass of humanity in a tiny, narrow space.
The security line is where the chaos starts. As you wait on line an airline employee (not wearing a uniform but clearly not a TSA person) yells at you to form two lines. It turns out there are two ID checkers, but she is yelling at the people standing no more than 3 feet from the ID checkers, so the double line only extends for 3 feet (after that it merges back into one line).
The TSA procedure is pretty much par for the course, except for the lack of space. At my station, there was a grand total of 5 or 6 bins which needed to be continuously recycled by the hapless TSA person.
The fun begins once you enter the B Concourse. TZ has gates on one side and AirTran has the gates on the other side. The total width of the concourse is no more than 15 feet.
People line up for flight on both sides as arriving passengers are deplaning who have to walk through a gauntlet barely wide enough for one person.
When the boarding begins on TZ there is a perfunctory attempt to pre-board and very quickly there is a stampede on the gate agent. As he is collecting boarding passes, he is philosophical "We got to hurry, we don't want to be late."
In all fairness the flight was perfectly fine, leather seats, adequate legroom (although not as much as B6). Free soft drinks and pay-for snack boxes that looked pretty basic.
The coach cabin on TZ, by the way, was significantly more comfortable than the horrendous, knee-crushing CO coach cabin with its rock-hard thin seats.
On my return from HOU there was a mechanical issue with one of the engines and so we were delayed about an hour.
But all the TZ staff were friendly and professional. So it could have been worse.
Still, this route will clearly go through a sea change once B6 starts operating on it.
First of all, there is the issue of price. It's interesting that when TZ serves LGA-HOU twice a day with its 737-800's, CO doesn't blink an eyelash and continues to charge astronomical, outrageous fares.
I took TZ because the absolute lowest fare I could find on CO was a whopping $818 r.t. (TZ cost $376 r.t.).
Now, when B6's announces 3 daily JFK-HOU flights on E-190's, CO immediately lowers its price to match B6.
Of course, it's no surprise why CO pays more attention to B6 than to TZ. B6 is a ground-breaking, revolutionary product which is changing the basic idea of airline travel.
TZ, on the other hand, has a long way to go to be breaking any ground.
I just completed my LGA-HOU on TZ and the experience was actually very instructive for anyone who might start to take the quality of B6 for granted.
I have been flying out of LGA for many decades and it has become one of my favorite airports. When you fly TZ, though, it's a painful reminder of the chaotic old days of LGA.
TZ shares the B concourse with AirTrain and these two discount carriers move a mass of humanity in a tiny, narrow space.
The security line is where the chaos starts. As you wait on line an airline employee (not wearing a uniform but clearly not a TSA person) yells at you to form two lines. It turns out there are two ID checkers, but she is yelling at the people standing no more than 3 feet from the ID checkers, so the double line only extends for 3 feet (after that it merges back into one line).
The TSA procedure is pretty much par for the course, except for the lack of space. At my station, there was a grand total of 5 or 6 bins which needed to be continuously recycled by the hapless TSA person.
The fun begins once you enter the B Concourse. TZ has gates on one side and AirTran has the gates on the other side. The total width of the concourse is no more than 15 feet.
People line up for flight on both sides as arriving passengers are deplaning who have to walk through a gauntlet barely wide enough for one person.
When the boarding begins on TZ there is a perfunctory attempt to pre-board and very quickly there is a stampede on the gate agent. As he is collecting boarding passes, he is philosophical "We got to hurry, we don't want to be late."
In all fairness the flight was perfectly fine, leather seats, adequate legroom (although not as much as B6). Free soft drinks and pay-for snack boxes that looked pretty basic.
The coach cabin on TZ, by the way, was significantly more comfortable than the horrendous, knee-crushing CO coach cabin with its rock-hard thin seats.
On my return from HOU there was a mechanical issue with one of the engines and so we were delayed about an hour.
But all the TZ staff were friendly and professional. So it could have been worse.
Still, this route will clearly go through a sea change once B6 starts operating on it.
Last edited by TWA Fan 1; Jun 30, 2006 at 4:22 pm
Jun 30, 2006 | 9:03 pm
#17
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Originally Posted by jetBlueNYFL
When an airline like jetBlue or Southwest enter a new market, competing legacy airlines on that route usually match their fares to compete. The way I see this is that the legacy airline has gotten away with "screwing" (in lack of a better term) the customer on over-priced service. If I were a loyal CO customer paying $400 for most of my flights from NYC-IAH the past few years, and then all of a sudden the fare drops to $200...I would not think twice about shifting my loyalty over to the airline responsible for bringing down the fares in the market. After all, it's the jetBlue Effect that impacted lower airfares.
Originally Posted by jetBlueNYFL
A perfect example of this technique, JFK-BDA. Pre-jetBlue fares on this route were sky-high STARTING around $250 each way. JetBlue entered the market with $129 fares, signifigantly lower then what AA charged...and sadly got away with all those years. So, AA reduces the price to $129 and makes a statement that they did this to show appreciation for their customers for flying AA to the island for 30 years......BS! The real reason was beause jetBlue entered the market and gained market share. Customers are not dumb....they know they are getting a better value on jetBlue. And B6 is to thank for lower fares on those routes!
Jun 30, 2006 | 9:44 pm
#18
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Programs: DL SM Plat, B6 TrueBlue, UA MP, AAdvantage
Posts: 10,008
Originally Posted by ContinentalFan
I am not sure how widespread this shift in loyalty would be. OnePass, in fact any FF program, makes customers "sticky." For those that select an itinerary solely on price, well, they were never loyal in the first place!
In any case, it's going to take a lot more in Houston to see a major defection to B6 than 3 E-190's per day to JFK. In New York, on the other hand, I think there have already been significant defections.
I just flew back from Houston to LGA this morning and struck up a conversation with a family of New Yorkers who were in Houston to attend a wedding. The head of the family described himself as a thoroughly disgruntled CO flyer who is now flying B6 as much as possible.
We were all flying ATA because the fares on CO EWR-IAH were so astronomical. This fellow also tried to book some reward seats on CO and there was zero availability according to him (easily believable in my opinion).
I certainly wouldn't pan AA for charging $250--it's not really a big fare in the first place! A company will charge what the market will bear. If I follow the reasoning, then if WN arrives into the market and drops the fare to $49, that wouldn't make JetBlue evil! Companies charge what the market can bear. If JetBlue can run things profitably at $129, good for the company!
Obviously AA can charge as much as it can get away with as long as there is essentially no competition. But the competition that WN and now increasingly B6 are providing has been a huge catalyst in getting these traditional airlines to lower their fares.
It's not a matter of evil, but it is making the product a heck of a lot more affordable, and wasn't that the whole point of deregulation in the first place?