AutoSlash

There is no Priority Pass lounge at JFK Terminal 5. Using one at a different terminal would be so inconvenient as to not be worth it.

AutoSlash

Our point was that people seem to have no problem spending ~6 hours in an A320 in Y transcon so an additional hour TATL (meal or not) doesn't seem like it would be a dealbreaker.

As for the price difference, there's ~$165 in UK-imposed departure fees TATL that don't exist on a domestic transcon.

United Kingdom Passenger Service Charge Departures (UB) $62.00
United Kingdom Air Passenger Duty APD (GB) $101.90

ISTFlyer

I don't know for US stations but for ex-LHR, I guess, for 20-30 passengers a flight ( assuming that there would be 2-3 B6 flights daily; 16-24 Mint + a very few Mosaic per flight ), it would not make sense to open a lounge at LHR. The Aspire or Plaza Premium Lounges at the terminal that B6 would operate should be enough.

For US stations, however, they would need to think about a method. Especially for red-eyes where United, American, and British Airways offer pre-flight dining at their airport lounges. ( Not sure about Delta + Virgin Atlantic ).​​​​​

MSYtoJFKagain

What about partnering with their fancy TWA hotel outside T5 for a private dining area and then an escort through security? That could be a pretty elegant solution.

cmd320

I don't really consider the lounge part of the hard product, I would classify that as the ground experience. How can JetBlue compete without a lounge? Easy, price. B6 can already undercut most competitors on price while remaining profitable. What is a lounge worth on the fare? $100? $200 (doubtful)? We've seen this work very well with Mint in the premium transcon market to the point where B6 is now commanding a premium over competitors on some routes, even without a lounge. There is nothing to indicate the same isn't possible on short TATL flights like JFK/BOS-LHR.

With that said, I would be nice to see B6 roll out some sort of "Mint Lounge" or something like that at JFK, LAX, and LHR. It would also be great to have an arrivals lounge option.

That's the point. The competition just isn't really a lot better, and has far higher costs. They're not going up against, QR, EK, or SQ. It's BA with their miserable Club World product (at least until the get the new one rolled out in any kind of volume), DL's 767 product which isn't great, and AA J which is probably the best hard product at the moment (assuming you don't end up in a Concept D seat), but soft product is terrible. No airline really has a very good product on this route at all.

tphuang

A321LR should be very premium heavy. I'm think 30J + 100 Y/Y+. I would be surprised if they don't generate more revenue from premium cabin than Y cabin.

In short term, I don't think they need to do anything about lounge access. As they build up their TATL franchise, I think they have to make something available at JFK. If JFK expansion project goes forward and they get T5 extended all the way to T7, I would imagine there will be lounges in there. If JetBlue wants to save on cost, they should work something out with other tenants or 3rd party lounge service.

With what we've seen since pandemic started, JetBlue is aware of what it needs to do in order to capture that upper echelon of ff. Its hard product don't need any help. I think it's just a matter of time before lounge service is added. Since we are in the middle of airline austerity, they don't have to do that by 2021. But by 2023 to 2024, they really should have something.

Right, even if they get 4 slots for JFK-LHR, filling 400 Y/Y+ seats with 250 O&D and another 90 connecting at JFK really shouldn't be that hard. It's a fraction of what BA flies everyday. Just think of all the NYC to continental Europe connection traffic in Y that basically makes no money on those 747s.

I have never see $399 R/T on legacy carriers on NYC to LHR R/T. I have seen JetBlue compete aggressively with $220 R/T fares on BOS-LAX, which is not that much shorter than BOS-LHR. The reality is that legacy airlines have been subsidizing Y fares with sky high J fares. It's a giant disaster for them to have to price match JetBlue on J fares.

GW McLintock

I think they'll either have to do this or open a lounge somewhere in the terminal. Otherwise J pax will likely stick with AA/DL/BA/VS unless they are Mosaic and only Mosaic (no status elsewhere).

-J.

Dieuwer

Any news on other destinations in Europe? AMS, CDG, DUB?

ISTFlyer

JetBlue did the right thing to open more premium transcontinental routes than the US3 by maintaining a better service where Delta decided to cost-cut and market their hygiene standards with the Purell branding; United relies on their hard-product and loyalty program members; American had simplified their service and closed their Flagship Lounge and still asking pre-COVID level prices; although JetBlue did offer lower fares for Mint ( most routes start from $389-519 ), attracted passengers with decent service and offered a premium-transcontinental service on routes where others still offer Domestic First.

I might be harsh in this statement but I find it a bit awkward to pay United, Delta, Alaska, and American Domestic First when flying from New York or Boston to Seattle where JetBlue is offering a full transcontinental service for the same or even a lower price.

I agree that AA currently has the best product on the NYC-LON route but I also give credit to the Club Suite in BA. However, Star Alliance has the best lounges both in LHR and EWR when flying United.

This would definitely fit into JetBlue's Business model.

It's completely true that connection to Europe does not make that much money. When I'm flying IST-LHR-JFK r/t for $459 on BA, I am pretty sure that BA is selling me that seat because they know that they can't fill 8 or 9 747/777's every day with high-revenue last-minute O<-->D Economy passengers.

And, also add the fact that B6 might also want to fly EWR-LHR as well as B6 have got Southwest's slots and started expanded their network from EWR. When business travel starts to recover they might reduce frequency on some leisure routes and add LHR flights from there as well.

I guess that B6 would like to open their own lounges. The T5 expansion in JFK is a great opportunity, such as the new Terminal One in EWR if they plan to fly EWR-LHR. It's not in Terminal C in BOS but there is lounge space available at BOS T5 where the BA Club, the LH lounge used to be in the lower level before moving to the upper level. I have only flown from BOS Terminal C once 5-6 years ago so I don't know if there is empty space over there.

For LHR it makes sense to work with other tenants. My bet goes to Plaza Premium as they have arrival lounges at LHR T2 and T4, plus there wouldn't be that many passengers using the arrival lounges ( maybe 5-10 pax per flight )

Completely agree with this part.

It was this January when I spotted the $399 r/t deal; UA, DL, VS, BA and AA were price matching and TAP had even a $289 r/t deal if the passengers didn't mind having a connection at LIS or OPO.


IMO, Mosaic is a bit worthless when traveling on Mint; no extra perks except for no cancellation fee ( for voucher ). There are some small perks like extra baggage, free Extra More Legroom Seat, priority boarding, etc... when flying Economy.

Also, it's much easier to obtain status on alliances compared to Mosaic.

I don't think JetBlue has announced other European destinations other than London. Maybe in the future

garykung

I hear you. But don't forget - before UA has started utilized B772 for p.s. TCON, most of the TCON were done by narrowbodies. So to say people having no problem, I would rather say it (choosing widebodies) was not really a choice.

On the other hand, most of TATL were done by widebodies with a few exceptions, which UA was a "pioneer" in using narrowbodies for TATL.

You can classify lounge whatever you want. Bottom line - it is a key.

Many premium passengers are OPM. So they don't care the price, but the experience. Beside - are you suggesting, as AutoSlash implied, that JFK-LHR should be priced similar to TCON Mint plus a little bit more?

If JetBlue is premium heavy, then the lounge is a must. Let's see what kind of approach JetBlue will take. We are all simply guessing here.

sfozrhfco

You are not living in the reality of the present. People taking a non-stop whether it is transcon or a short transatlantic trip in premium classes are not going to the airport hours early to hang out. It is much safer and a better use of time to get to the airport, go through security, and board. It would be much better to invest in the product on board. Lounges to start are are complete waste of money. We are not taking about people boarding a 16 hour flight with an 8 hour layover and another 8 hour flight to the destination. In the winter, BOS-LHR, can be an little as 5 hours--an hour shorter than JFK-SFO.

cmd320

I completely agree. I have to imagine the only people doing this are either upgraders or people that just haven't done any research into what products are on offer.


I agree Club Suite is nice, however until it's pretty much across the entire fleet, the possibility of ending up in the old 2-4-2 product makes me want to avoid BA for the time being.

Even traveling on OPM with premium fares, many companies require the cheapest option to be selected. I think a lounge would certainly be nice, however when B6 launched Mint transcons everyone said a lounge in that market is key. Clearly B6 has done fine without them. It'll certainly be interesting to see what route they choose to go with. At the end of the day though, B6 is still an LCC so I wouldn't necessarily expect the product to be exactly the same as that of a legacy.

GW McLintock

This will likely be correct. If you look at the A321LR in the factory (10303), the window immediately ahead of the overwing exits is plugged, likely indicating a pantry or lavatory at that location. I think Core will begin at the overwing exits, so it will be much more Mint-heavy than domestic aircraft.

-J.

ISTFlyer

If I'm not wrong, United did place wide-bodies like 767, 777, 787's on their premium transcons to offer their newest Polaris product which offers direct-aisle access.
Even though most people report that the United 757 PS Business seats are pretty comfortable, people these days would choose the Polaris seats for more space and social distancing purposes.

I don't know why but a significant amount of US-based travelers want to arrive at the airport early for international flights and this is a habit for them; although the departure procedure is completely the same for domestic and international flights.

Whenever I flew from the USA to London with BA, I generally arrive 1h-1h30mins before departure and check-in are mostly empty at that time. I generally ask if the flight is empty and the ground staff generally tells me that most passengers have checked in within the 2h-3h window before the flight. I can't make this analysis with US carriers as they have common check-in counters for all destinations.

I usually online check-in for my flights but for those who don't, from their sequence number, passengers arriving airport near the check-in deadline could also make the same analysis for US carriers as well.

garykung

Contrary to your belief, you are not.

Your assumption is flawed on the basis that you have excluded connecting passengers. True - JetBlue may not have many connecting passengers as others. But still, you can't ignore any potential passengers from West Coast.

Also - international flights require additional time for check-in (the difference for JetBlue is 20 minutes currently). So yes - a Mint passenger does have the time to have a drink before departure.

Are we talking about JFK or LGB? Yes - what you have said may work with LGB. But for JFK? You definitely need extra time for pretty much everything.

You mean meals for Y/Y+? Sure.

Sure. But it is still a necessity.

As I have said - you have completely eliminated any potential passengers from the West Coast.

Sure. But as many of you have suggested - if JetBlue intends to compete on premium, then this kind of money has to be spent. In international markets - premium=lounge. If JetBlue wants to be a straight LCC (or even ULCC), then JetBlue can pack the plane as sardine, i.e. no Mint.

Either way - JetBlue has to pick a side.