the phoenix

Well, now that you put that way, sounds like a better return, 20% on my money, than in high yield savings banks or CDs, no?

So to confirm, the poster above would get a refund of the amt paid ....and a new Travel bank credit from the expired? I think I will ask for that instead. Refund and just extend my TB credit which is now expired.

DLSuites

Thats as of last weeks data. The aviation landscape is continually changing. The legacies can adapt better than LCCs can. For example, they can fly very valuable cargo on widebody planes between countries and they are getting a very high premium for these 'cargo only' flights. Also, the legacies can adapt more easily due to their numerous hubs/locations spread throughout the states.

Even if that doesnt help, its not like B6 has oodles of more time before their own cash runs out. They are very close behind the best of the legacies. In another week or two, the cash burn can look completely different than it did last week which is why I say, and to stay on topic, take the money and run.

blueskadoo

I'm not sure this is the right spot for this question but I hope so. I purchased 2 plane tickets on B6 a while back and then Covid-19 happened. They were international tickets. The tickets were paid with points, and taxes ($241) with my JetBlue MasterCard. The price dropped significantly in points. I cancel and rebook. I thought taxes would be returned to card- they insisted they go into travel bank. I was repurchasing tickets so didn't think much of it. Repurchased tickets. Used travel bank. B6 then cancels the new flight. Gives points back again. Refuses refund because "they came out of the travel bank" and puts money back into travel bank. Well, the new DOT guidance comes out, and they are still unwilling to refund because it was a "reward ticket" based on first itinerary. Is this worth the fight or do I just learn a tough lesson about B6 award tickets and trying to save points? Right now my travel bank expires in March 2021.

AutoSlash

You left out a few key pieces of information like when the tickets were originally purchased and when the departure date was. This would have been relevant as it relates to your original rights as far s a refund goes, but you've traveled a bit further down the rabbit hole so-to-speak, so at this point, it's probably no longer relevant and you probably just need to deal with it. Had you been in the "window of opportunity" you may have been able to just cancel and then request a full refund and then re-book separately, but at this point, that opportunity is gone and you're stuck with a travel bank credit.

It is worth noting that as per JetBlue's updated policy, "Travel Bank credits issued between February 27 and May 31 for flight purchases will now have an 24-month expiration period as opposed to the typical 12 months." They go on to say, " We are working to have your statement updated to reflect the 24 month expiration period and you will receive a confirmation email by mid-April to confirm this update."

Hope this helps!

Often1

B6 is obligated to refund the tickets to their original form of payment. That is your travel bank, e.g. a credit.

The fact that you paid for some other ticket in part with cash and then refunded that ticket to your travel bank means that the funds to pay for the ticket come from your travel bank.

This fully complies with DOT's rules and its recent Warning Letter.

tphuang

I mean at the end of the day, the math is the math. The problem for DL and other legacies are their high fix costs. Based on my discussion with someone that works for UA, I don't get the impression these cargos are anymore than marginally profitable (as in they do a little better than pay for their trip cost). So you are left with a fleet of a lot of wide bodies when there is so little demand for those type of flights for quite a long time. DL CEO recently told its employees that they have enough cash to last 90 days. That will obviously change depending on whether or not they take the CARES grant and if they can get additional loans. And my guess is that AA/UA are in even worse positions. Basically JetBue right now has a burn rate that is 1/5 to 1/6 of delta and cash position (including the loans) of about 1/3 to 1/2 of DL

If airline industry does get better than April/May when we get to later on this year and next year, you would expect the burn rate to significantly decrease. My calculation has been that JetBlue can get to next summer if it takes the CARES grant and get another loan. I guess we will find out whether or not I'm right when all the airlines do their earnings call.

And they may do even better than that if Carribbean VFR flight demand comes back faster than other sectors.

That doesn't necessarily mean JetBlue will be independent coming out of this. I could see them merge with AS, NK, WN or HA. I don't see legacies with enough money to do anything other than trying to save themselves at this time. We will see, but legacies will really shrink coming out of this. B6 could do quite well if it has enough money. I expect AA to pull further back from NYC and DL to cut down on BOS coming out of this. Both would be very beneficial for B6 in the long term.

DLSuites

I wouldn't worry to much about Delta. I wouldn't worry about what the CEO says about cash. DL will be fine. They will be around post COVID19. They will be in Boston, they will be in Seattle, they will be everywhere that they were pre COVID19. But especially Boston. If B6 is hoping (like you do) that DL retreats from BOS, than your both going to be very upset.

Bottom line is, the US doesnt need 3 legacy airlines post COVID-19. One of the big 3 can easily be parted out, but it won't be DL. Maybe AA? The US doesnt need all the LCC's and I find B6 to be very expendable. Not much B6 can do as a mostly leisure airline with a very limited use narrow body fleet. You can only carry so much cargo in the belly of those A320/1's. People talk about UA and DL coming out of this smaller but maybe those CEO's are saying that just to throw off the competitor? What about B6 coming out of this smaller? Will they even survive? Meanwhile, DL is putting its A350's to good use by flying cargo between Asia and the states, whats B6 doing? I can easily see B6 not coming out of this at all. They can get broken up and the parts absorbed by others. All that said, to the OP, get your money back. I wouldn't trust B6 to be around in the long term to use a travel voucher.
https://news.delta.com/delta-expands...en-us-and-asia

tphuang

The economic models that airlines are hiring right now are forecasting that US3 to be from 30 to 40% smaller a year from now. With AA being in the worst position and likely to contract the most. LCCs are projected to shrink but more around 20% mark. Again, Neeleman had conversation with major US airline exec who said they would be 50% smaller coming out of this if the worst part of this lasts a year. That's unlikely to happen, but it looks like Q2/Q3 are both shot, which is why the airlines with the highest fixed costs are forced to do the most cutting. It seems like you are entirely unaware of how bad this is for the big 3.

DL had the least cash of any airline coming into this situation in terms of days of cash on hand. They had less debts than AA/UA, which is probably why they are going able to borrow more money and survive the longest. They've already maxed out their credit card and just got another $1 billion for doing sale + lease back. Frankly, they are not cutting costs fast enough. With the $6.5 billion they have on hand now + $5.4 billion they got from CARES, they got enough money to get through Q2/Q3. If Q3 is noticeably better than Q2, they might get through Q4. They'd need another large loan to get to next summer though when things are likely to be cash positive again. The odds of DL going to chapter 11 without another loan (think $3 to 4 billion) from either private or govt is pretty high at this point. Again the math is pretty simple, they have now $12 billion and their current burn rate is in the $65 million a day range. Not great. JetBlue has $3.5 billion and their burn rate is a little over $10 million a day.

So why do the big 3 have to be smaller coming out this. The reason is because they have to do large scale furloughing to reduce fixed costs come Oct 1. And on top of that, they are all retiring a lot of older mainline fleet (which means they also have to operate much fewer RJ due to scope clause) to cut costs. Once you do furlough and the retirement + deferment of new fleet type, you don't just get back to your original size the day you become profitable again. It takes another 2 or 3 years to get those furloughed people back and to add in the new mainline aircraft.

Which brings to the BOS question. So we've seen already in DL's schedule loads where they are planning to cut. RDU got hammered first and then CVG and finally BOS. The first 2 became ATL/DTW/MSP only for April. BOS became core hubs/NYC/LAX for April. For May, these 3 got a couple of more routes back, but it's still quite minimal. To put into perspective, they've scheduled in just 24 flights a day thus far for May out of BOS with only about 10 routes in total. Both LAX/SEA, are seeing around 50 to 60 flights a day with most of the major routes untouched. So based on that, RDU/CVG/BOS are unlikely to be what they were prior to the virus. And the reason is simple. Economy is going to be really bad for a while. A lot less international travel demand and business travel demand will be down a lot too. And they owe a lot of money that need to be paid back. The way to do that is focus on your core hubs and reduce the number of growth hubs which drain your resources.

bgasser

Used the chat with us function yesterday instead of calling. Had a B6 flight from JFK to LGB on May 7 that was moved from 5:52PM to 6:39AM. When I asked for a refund, I was told that I would get a travel credit. Responded that I did not want to have to file a DOT complaint and asked if there was anything else they could do. I was offer 120% travel credit to be used in 24 months or a refund on my Credit Card. Sad I had to bring up the DOT, but it was a relatively painless process. The chat with us function was quick compared to the 20 minute hold time on the phone. Took the travel credit since I fly a lot with JetBlue and I have 2 years to use it. Satisfied with the result.

DLSuites

Look, I get it. your a huge fan of JetBlue. I think thats great. I think a lot of people on these chat forums have a 'hometown' airline and they root them on no matter what. They fail to see them in their true colors, opting for illusions of grandeur,. . In your fantasy world, JetBlue takes control of the aviation world; or at the least, they take full and unbridled control of BOS and NYC. Got some news for you....not gonna happen. Up until COVID19, while B6 might have been the largest in terms of flights flown at BOS, AA and DL were, and always will be, breathing down their neck. And don't forget, B6 does not have that fortress hub that the US3 have. They never will. They will always have to share, for as long as they're around.

Further, B6 has been around a little more than 20 years and they still don't have flights to Europe. In my opinion, very, very bad leadership. B6 should have been flying to Europe like 10 years ago. That they still don't have their own metal on the ground in Europe is embarrassing. There are plenty of planes that they could've bought that would've fit their needs/ Now, the whole aviation landscape has changed in the blink of an eye. Maybe. just maybe, if they survive this crisis, they can rethink Europe in a few more years time. I mean, by this time, B6 should have had Europe down pat and had their eyes set on flights over the Pacific.

B6 should also by now have a western hub. SEA was there for the taking. They should've pounced on SEA while they had the chance. Instead, DL didnt bat an eye. They saw an opportunity and jumped in. These are the reasons I don't have much faith in JetBlue to weather this crisis and why everyone should ask for a full refund in cases like the OP's. Don't give B6 your money for a future flight credit they might not be able to fulfill./

tphuang

I'm simply giving you the fact. The fact is legacies are in huge trouble from this and will shrink dramatically coming out of this. LCCs will shrink too, but not to the same degree. At this point, AA will have a very hard time avoiding Chapter 11. And frankly, DL is not that far away. Their costs are just too high. WN will do great coming out of this. So will airlines like G4 that have very low fixed costs. Maybe B6 will end up merging with someone else. Maybe it won't. Who knows, the airline industry is really going to change.

How B6 does out of this is also dependent on choices of other airlines. Do I think B6 will come out a more friendly competitive landscape? Yes I do.
1) I think it's quite plausible there will be deeper partnership with AA/AS as AA is likely to go through a lot of hardship and need friends. It's a game changer for B6 to be able to put its ff on other airlines in IRROPS.
2) Flying to Europe just got a lot easier with DY on its last legs (even if they survive, they won't be trying TATL anytime soon) and VS on the very of collapse. With all these airlines having trouble, LHR slots will easier to come by than before.
3) Domestically, AA will really cut back at LA and NY area. It will have so much debt to pay back, that it won't be able to keep its money losing operations the way they are in NY/LA. Which means B6 will most likely be able to lease additional JFK and possible LGA slots from AA. There appeared to have already been a slot lease for this summer between AA/B6 before the cuts started. I'm certainly not the only predicting this.
4) DL has already made a conscious decision to cut BOS to barebones for April/May (down to like 12 flights a day), which it has not down in any of its other hubs. Both SEA/LAX still operated 2.5 to 3 times that many flights. BOS will see much smaller DL presence coming out of this. The only question is whether that will be a 110 to 130 flight quasi-hub or a 70 to 90 flight focus city. At this point, it seems like it will be a focus city. The reason is pretty obvious. NYC will really open up for DL as AA retreats there. TATL market will also be weak for a few year. There is simply no need to have a second northeast TATL hub. I'm definitely not the only one predicting this.
5) A lot of gate constrained airports will have more gates available coming out of this.
6) VFR + domestic leisure is likely to recover faster than most other categories (especially TPAC or TATL). All of this will help B6 to recover to its pre-COVID size.
In general, it will be a much less crowded airspace. There will be opportunities. Legacies will be significantly weaker and that will make things easier for all the LCCs.

dhammer53

Speaking of refunds, I booked a 1 way award ticket. The flight was cancelled. How long does it take b6 to redeposit my miles?

dh

AutoSlash

Miles should redeposit immediately, but you may need to call B6 to cancel your itinerary as the process may not be automatic when your flight is cancelled.

DLSuites

I've read your posts from various sources. Your very unrealistic. You bleed blue to much. You truly believe that JetBlue is going to take over the world. I've read where you say JetBlue will get more gates at LAX, JFK, BOS, this airport and that airport. I've read where you truly believe JetBlue will completely take over flying certain routes and smash the competition. Got news for you, B6 might not even survive this....Honestly, the best thing that can happen is a merger between Alaska and JetBlue with Alaska name being retained. That will give the US3 a true run for their money. That gives Alaska a real presence up and down the east coast. Why retain the Alaska name? Because people will forget about B6 more easily and quickly than they will Alaska Airlines. Alaska Airlines has culture and a very rich history in the aviation industry. B6? Not so much. Unlike what you think, B6 will forever fight for turf at their hubs. They will never have that true fortress hub that the big boys have. Bottom line, no one would miss JetBlue.

AutoSlash

FWIW, Alaska has been around since 1932 and JetBlue since 1998. Given the fact that AS has been around four times as long as B6, it's hard to make the case that AS is dominating B6 at every level given that they've had 66 extra years to build the airline. I get that everyone likes to cheer on their favorites, but the reality is that AS and B6 will both survive COVID-19. Full stop. They are both well-run airlines that can tap the equity and bond markets for additional funding should it become necessary. Either or both make by weakened by the crisis, and you may see M&A activity in the space, but neither one is in danger of going out of business.