Thinking of switching to Delta
#106
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: PDX
Programs: DL Platinum, Bonvoy Gold, HH Gold, National Executive, Hertz Presidents Circle
Posts: 136
because you have their card. I don't have a card with skyclub access. Most people don't. Because it's a raw deal compared to CSR. When I had my AA card and CSR, I still ended up booking AA flights with CSR, because the reward is so much better. There is a reason legacy airlines make so much money off credit card. They are terrible deals for consumers.
You are only going to care about OTP on the flights that you fly on. Your example about transiting at other airport would apply, except the vast vast majority of JetBlue flights all touch JFK and BOS. I guess if you are used to transiting through ATL with DL, you'd care about their ATL OTP. But since JetBlue is either going to get you to Florida or Latin America directly or not at all, the only OTP that matters for you is their OTP on that direct flight.
#107
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,485
I think the main argument against Delta for you is that you do a ton of Asia travel where SkyTeam isn't the right network. For me, I'm doing mostly domestic business travel and I want to also do mostly domestic personal travel. So Delta works well for me. We also occasionally go to Korea and Europe, maybe Japan once in a while. Honestly I really hate KAL which is the SkyTeam airline to Seoul, but you can't have everything. My main reason for hating KAL is no internet access AT ALL. So, for that I'll probably use Asiana, so oh well, it doesn't fit with Delta, that's OK. Supposedly KAL is adding internet in the next few years so eventually I'll be able to fly KAL again. But I can understand why Delta doesn't work for you. For me, it seems to be a pretty good candidate for an airline to try out.
#108
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: American Express Platinum, Chase Sapphire Reserve
Posts: 619
That's only some of it. My other main issue with DL is that given they are flush in cash with its core hubs, it's using predatory behavior against smaller carriers (AS at SEA and B6 at BOS) because they don't have the resources to strike back at DL in its own hubs. Delta put both carriers in awful financial situation where they resort to desperation moves to keep what they had worked hard to build up. What they did here is not unlike what SouthWest did at DEN in their buildup, which ultimately forced F9 into bankruptcy and turned them from having a decent product into the ULCC that they are today. Make no mistake, building up new station with incumbent is extremely expensive. If you wonder why AS and B6 have Basic Economy fare class now, it can all be explained by Delta invasion of their main hub.
My beef with B6 isn't cost cutting, it's making cuts that will in the long run hurt their brand. It doesn't cost huge sums, for instance, to care about food quality in T5 or to respond to a legitimate customer complaint in a reasonable way, and NOT doing this is going to cost you more than the tiny amount you save. So I understand your desire to try to reward the underdog to preserve competition, but I'm more interested in rewarding management practices I think are good for the customer, good for employees, and good for long-term viability of the company.
Think of it this way: Delta has not always been in this position. Delta had some pretty tough years after the financial crash. Yet -- they managed to maintain strong customer service ratings and high employee satisfaction. They didn't let a blip in profit position panic them. I don't see the same resilience at B6.
However, I respect your perspective -- chacun a son gout.
#109
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,485
Fair enough. Personally, I don't fault JetBlue for introducing Basic Economy. However, as I was saying before, price is not cost. If all you are focused on is cutting costs but you're not looking at the value you get for whatever you were spending money on, that's not great management. If you "save" $1 but it costs you $2, that isn't smart management, it's short-term thinking.
My beef with B6 isn't cost cutting, it's making cuts that will in the long run hurt their brand. It doesn't cost huge sums, for instance, to care about food quality in T5 or to respond to a legitimate customer complaint in a reasonable way, and NOT doing this is going to cost you more than the tiny amount you save. So I understand your desire to try to reward the underdog to preserve competition, but I'm more interested in rewarding management practices I think are good for the customer, good for employees, and good for long-term viability of the company.
Think of it this way: Delta has not always been in this position. Delta had some pretty tough years after the financial crash. Yet -- they managed to maintain strong customer service ratings and high employee satisfaction. They didn't let a blip in profit position panic them. I don't see the same resilience at B6.
However, I respect your perspective -- chacun a son gout.
My beef with B6 isn't cost cutting, it's making cuts that will in the long run hurt their brand. It doesn't cost huge sums, for instance, to care about food quality in T5 or to respond to a legitimate customer complaint in a reasonable way, and NOT doing this is going to cost you more than the tiny amount you save. So I understand your desire to try to reward the underdog to preserve competition, but I'm more interested in rewarding management practices I think are good for the customer, good for employees, and good for long-term viability of the company.
Think of it this way: Delta has not always been in this position. Delta had some pretty tough years after the financial crash. Yet -- they managed to maintain strong customer service ratings and high employee satisfaction. They didn't let a blip in profit position panic them. I don't see the same resilience at B6.
However, I respect your perspective -- chacun a son gout.
On the food front, I think this is just a temporary situation.
Last fall, they announced 7 new restaurants that they were planning to open up in T5 JetBlue | JetBlue Adds More Bites from the Big Apple to the T5 Menu in First Major Restaurant Update at its Home Terminal at JFK Airport
which included Shake Shack, the melt shop along with some other eateries that New Yorkers would know pretty well. Looks ilke they are really behind schedule in their construction, since none of these places seem to have opened based on what people are saying. JetBlue never seems to be able to do anything on time. But they probably had to close some of the existing restaurants while this is going on, so the food options aren't going to be great while this is going on.
Aside from that, I think it's an easy case to make that they are continuing to improve the product in many ways.
JetBlue | JetBlue Expands Its Lineup of Free Entertainment with Launch of New Onboard Content Partners
They also added showtime amongst other things to their IFE recently.
This is on top of the improved IFE you will now see on A320 phase 2 reconfig along with A220 and A321NEO.
And of course, terminal 5 is getting extended to 6/7 in the coming years.
JetBlue | JetBlue and JFK Millennium Partners Select New York-based Private Equity Investor ? American Triple I as a Minority Owned Business Enterprise (MBE) Financing Partner for Terminals 6 and 7 Redevelopment Project at New York?s JFK Internationa
as usual with JetBlue, I fully expect them to be behind schedule.
"JetBlue, New York’s Hometown Airline® with a significant presence at JFK, was designated by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey to build a 1.2 million square foot terminal featuring up to 12 international gates, approximately 74,000 square feet of commercial dining and retail amenities, including lounges and recreational space."
Last edited by tphuang; Feb 3, 2020 at 11:52 am
#110
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: American Express Platinum, Chase Sapphire Reserve
Posts: 619
"JetBlue, New York’s Hometown Airline® with a significant presence at JFK, was designated by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey to build a 1.2 million square foot terminal featuring up to 12 international gates, approximately 74,000 square feet of commercial dining and retail amenities, including lounges and recreational space."
#111
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NYC
Programs: AS MVPG, DL KM, Bee Six, Bonvoy Plat, Avis PC, Natl Exec, Greyhound Road Rewards Z"L
Posts: 16,709
Last fall, they announced 7 new restaurants that they were planning to open up in T5 JetBlue | JetBlue Adds More Bites from the Big Apple to the T5 Menu in First Major Restaurant Update at its Home Terminal at JFK Airport
which included Shake Shack, the melt shop along with some other eateries that New Yorkers would know pretty well. Looks ilke they are really behind schedule in their construction, since none of these places seem to have opened based on what people are saying. JetBlue never seems to be able to do anything on time. But they probably had to close some of the existing restaurants while this is going on, so the food options aren't going to be great while this is going on.
Aside from that, I think it's an easy case to make that they are continuing to improve the product in many ways.
JetBlue | JetBlue Expands Its Lineup of Free Entertainment with Launch of New Onboard Content Partners
They also added showtime amongst other things to their IFE recently.
This is on top of the improved IFE you will now see on A320 phase 2 reconfig along with A220 and A321NEO.
which included Shake Shack, the melt shop along with some other eateries that New Yorkers would know pretty well. Looks ilke they are really behind schedule in their construction, since none of these places seem to have opened based on what people are saying. JetBlue never seems to be able to do anything on time. But they probably had to close some of the existing restaurants while this is going on, so the food options aren't going to be great while this is going on.
Aside from that, I think it's an easy case to make that they are continuing to improve the product in many ways.
JetBlue | JetBlue Expands Its Lineup of Free Entertainment with Launch of New Onboard Content Partners
They also added showtime amongst other things to their IFE recently.
This is on top of the improved IFE you will now see on A320 phase 2 reconfig along with A220 and A321NEO.
W/r/t the IFE, I hesitate to call it "improved" with the loss of XM. There are now zero music-options; you can watch the map in silence if you like.
-J.
#112
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NYC (LGA, JFK), CT
Programs: Delta Platinum, American Gold, JetBlue Mosaic 4, Marriott Platinum, Hyatt Explorist, Hilton Diamond,
Posts: 4,895
Interesting thread - coming to it late. I switched from American two years ago to Delta now, with a few JetBlue mint flights sprinkled along the way. Even thought Mint is nice, Delta is still a better choice for most business travelers...
1) Lounge access - Delta (for better or worse) offers the most democratic and comprehensive lounge access program of the US airlines. An Amex Platinum (not the branded card) gets you into all their lounges when flying Delta - the Amex Platinum is probably as widespread as the CSR. Also, you can get in the club using two cobranded cards, Reserve and Delta Platinum (Gold, their $95, also used to give access). So average flyers can basically always access a club
2) JetBlue penalizes business travelers by taking away half of their points if you book through a corporate portal - I'm not aware of any other airline or hotel company that does this
3) Much bigger route network, better IROPs coverage, etc
4) Delta has improved their hard product
In terms of the market structure in New York, American Airlines is more to blame for ceding the NYC market to Delta (and to a lesser extent, UA and its move from JFK).
1) Lounge access - Delta (for better or worse) offers the most democratic and comprehensive lounge access program of the US airlines. An Amex Platinum (not the branded card) gets you into all their lounges when flying Delta - the Amex Platinum is probably as widespread as the CSR. Also, you can get in the club using two cobranded cards, Reserve and Delta Platinum (Gold, their $95, also used to give access). So average flyers can basically always access a club
2) JetBlue penalizes business travelers by taking away half of their points if you book through a corporate portal - I'm not aware of any other airline or hotel company that does this
3) Much bigger route network, better IROPs coverage, etc
4) Delta has improved their hard product
In terms of the market structure in New York, American Airlines is more to blame for ceding the NYC market to Delta (and to a lesser extent, UA and its move from JFK).
#113
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: American Express Platinum, Chase Sapphire Reserve
Posts: 619
Meanwhile, Delta announces they’re going carbon neutral worldwide.
https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/14/2...hange-airlines
https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/14/2...hange-airlines
#114
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,485
Meanwhile, Delta announces they’re going carbon neutral worldwide.
https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/14/2...hange-airlines
https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/14/2...hange-airlines
Edit, the latest I saw was a 2030 goal for carbon neutral. Aside from the fact that it's still 10 years away. A lot could happen until then. Until they achieve it, it's just empty talk.