Thinking of switching to Delta

Old Feb 1, 20, 8:36 am
  #106  
 
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Originally Posted by tphuang View Post

because you have their card. I don't have a card with skyclub access. Most people don't. Because it's a raw deal compared to CSR. When I had my AA card and CSR, I still ended up booking AA flights with CSR, because the reward is so much better. There is a reason legacy airlines make so much money off credit card. They are terrible deals for consumers.

You are only going to care about OTP on the flights that you fly on. Your example about transiting at other airport would apply, except the vast vast majority of JetBlue flights all touch JFK and BOS. I guess if you are used to transiting through ATL with DL, you'd care about their ATL OTP. But since JetBlue is either going to get you to Florida or Latin America directly or not at all, the only OTP that matters for you is their OTP on that direct flight.
Yes, I have the Amex Plat which yes gets me into the SkyClub. I had the CSR but cancelled it. It's the same price as the Amex Plat and you get almost none of the benefits that you do with the Amex Plat.
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Old Feb 1, 20, 8:40 am
  #107  
 
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Originally Posted by synzero View Post
I think the main argument against Delta for you is that you do a ton of Asia travel where SkyTeam isn't the right network. For me, I'm doing mostly domestic business travel and I want to also do mostly domestic personal travel. So Delta works well for me. We also occasionally go to Korea and Europe, maybe Japan once in a while. Honestly I really hate KAL which is the SkyTeam airline to Seoul, but you can't have everything. My main reason for hating KAL is no internet access AT ALL. So, for that I'll probably use Asiana, so oh well, it doesn't fit with Delta, that's OK. Supposedly KAL is adding internet in the next few years so eventually I'll be able to fly KAL again. But I can understand why Delta doesn't work for you. For me, it seems to be a pretty good candidate for an airline to try out.
That's only some of it. My other main issue with DL is that given they are flush in cash with its core hubs, it's using predatory behavior against smaller carriers (AS at SEA and B6 at BOS) because they don't have the resources to strike back at DL in its own hubs. Delta put both carriers in awful financial situation where they resort to desperation moves to keep what they had worked hard to build up. What they did here is not unlike what SouthWest did at DEN in their buildup, which ultimately forced F9 into bankruptcy and turned them from having a decent product into the ULCC that they are today. Make no mistake, building up new station with incumbent is extremely expensive. If you wonder why AS and B6 have Basic Economy fare class now, it can all be explained by Delta invasion of their main hub.
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Old Feb 1, 20, 5:18 pm
  #108  
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Originally Posted by tphuang View Post
That's only some of it. My other main issue with DL is that given they are flush in cash with its core hubs, it's using predatory behavior against smaller carriers (AS at SEA and B6 at BOS) because they don't have the resources to strike back at DL in its own hubs. Delta put both carriers in awful financial situation where they resort to desperation moves to keep what they had worked hard to build up. What they did here is not unlike what SouthWest did at DEN in their buildup, which ultimately forced F9 into bankruptcy and turned them from having a decent product into the ULCC that they are today. Make no mistake, building up new station with incumbent is extremely expensive. If you wonder why AS and B6 have Basic Economy fare class now, it can all be explained by Delta invasion of their main hub.
Fair enough. Personally, I don't fault JetBlue for introducing Basic Economy. However, as I was saying before, price is not cost. If all you are focused on is cutting costs but you're not looking at the value you get for whatever you were spending money on, that's not great management. If you "save" $1 but it costs you $2, that isn't smart management, it's short-term thinking.

My beef with B6 isn't cost cutting, it's making cuts that will in the long run hurt their brand. It doesn't cost huge sums, for instance, to care about food quality in T5 or to respond to a legitimate customer complaint in a reasonable way, and NOT doing this is going to cost you more than the tiny amount you save. So I understand your desire to try to reward the underdog to preserve competition, but I'm more interested in rewarding management practices I think are good for the customer, good for employees, and good for long-term viability of the company.

Think of it this way: Delta has not always been in this position. Delta had some pretty tough years after the financial crash. Yet -- they managed to maintain strong customer service ratings and high employee satisfaction. They didn't let a blip in profit position panic them. I don't see the same resilience at B6.

However, I respect your perspective -- chacun a son gout.
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Old Feb 3, 20, 12:39 pm
  #109  
 
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Originally Posted by synzero View Post
Fair enough. Personally, I don't fault JetBlue for introducing Basic Economy. However, as I was saying before, price is not cost. If all you are focused on is cutting costs but you're not looking at the value you get for whatever you were spending money on, that's not great management. If you "save" $1 but it costs you $2, that isn't smart management, it's short-term thinking.

My beef with B6 isn't cost cutting, it's making cuts that will in the long run hurt their brand. It doesn't cost huge sums, for instance, to care about food quality in T5 or to respond to a legitimate customer complaint in a reasonable way, and NOT doing this is going to cost you more than the tiny amount you save. So I understand your desire to try to reward the underdog to preserve competition, but I'm more interested in rewarding management practices I think are good for the customer, good for employees, and good for long-term viability of the company.

Think of it this way: Delta has not always been in this position. Delta had some pretty tough years after the financial crash. Yet -- they managed to maintain strong customer service ratings and high employee satisfaction. They didn't let a blip in profit position panic them. I don't see the same resilience at B6.

However, I respect your perspective -- chacun a son gout.
They are not in the same position as DL. If their stock performance get any lower, they are probably the most visible takeover target of one of AA/UA/WN. A lot of DL's "customer friendly" moves have only been made after their merger with NW was fully complete. When you only 2 or 3 major hubs that are really profitable and then the most profitable one sees 25% additional capacity in a short period of time, it's hard not to suffer. That's the case with both B6 and AS. Both have had to make tough rough decisions in their network. And both have had to cut its cost anyway they can. Hard to growth revenue when all the market you are in have more competition.

On the food front, I think this is just a temporary situation.

Last fall, they announced 7 new restaurants that they were planning to open up in T5 JetBlue | JetBlue Adds More Bites from the Big Apple to the T5 Menu in First Major Restaurant Update at its Home Terminal at JFK Airport
which included Shake Shack, the melt shop along with some other eateries that New Yorkers would know pretty well. Looks ilke they are really behind schedule in their construction, since none of these places seem to have opened based on what people are saying. JetBlue never seems to be able to do anything on time. But they probably had to close some of the existing restaurants while this is going on, so the food options aren't going to be great while this is going on.

Aside from that, I think it's an easy case to make that they are continuing to improve the product in many ways.
JetBlue | JetBlue Expands Its Lineup of Free Entertainment with Launch of New Onboard Content Partners
They also added showtime amongst other things to their IFE recently.

This is on top of the improved IFE you will now see on A320 phase 2 reconfig along with A220 and A321NEO.

And of course, terminal 5 is getting extended to 6/7 in the coming years.
JetBlue | JetBlue and JFK Millennium Partners Select New York-based Private Equity Investor ? American Triple I as a Minority Owned Business Enterprise (MBE) Financing Partner for Terminals 6 and 7 Redevelopment Project at New York?s JFK Internationa
as usual with JetBlue, I fully expect them to be behind schedule.
"JetBlue, New York’s Hometown Airline® with a significant presence at JFK, was designated by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey to build a 1.2 million square foot terminal featuring up to 12 international gates, approximately 74,000 square feet of commercial dining and retail amenities, including lounges and recreational space."

Last edited by tphuang; Feb 3, 20 at 12:52 pm
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Old Feb 3, 20, 2:56 pm
  #110  
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Originally Posted by tphuang View Post
"JetBlue, New York’s Hometown Airline® with a significant presence at JFK, was designated by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey to build a 1.2 million square foot terminal featuring up to 12 international gates, approximately 74,000 square feet of commercial dining and retail amenities, including lounges and recreational space."
If they really do manage to up their game, great. I mean loyalty is a year by year game for me. It will take me a year to build up to Platinum Medallion on Delta but one nice thing about JetBlue is if they do manage to get things back on track, I can just switch back and if they haven't devalued their economy product I don't need status, so I can just switch back for the following year. Especially if they add lounges to T5. But honestly, that is all likely years away.
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Old Feb 3, 20, 4:24 pm
  #111  
 
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Originally Posted by tphuang View Post
Last fall, they announced 7 new restaurants that they were planning to open up in T5 JetBlue | JetBlue Adds More Bites from the Big Apple to the T5 Menu in First Major Restaurant Update at its Home Terminal at JFK Airport
which included Shake Shack, the melt shop along with some other eateries that New Yorkers would know pretty well. Looks ilke they are really behind schedule in their construction, since none of these places seem to have opened based on what people are saying. JetBlue never seems to be able to do anything on time. But they probably had to close some of the existing restaurants while this is going on, so the food options aren't going to be great while this is going on.

Aside from that, I think it's an easy case to make that they are continuing to improve the product in many ways.
JetBlue | JetBlue Expands Its Lineup of Free Entertainment with Launch of New Onboard Content Partners
They also added showtime amongst other things to their IFE recently.

This is on top of the improved IFE you will now see on A320 phase 2 reconfig along with A220 and A321NEO.
Other than Shake Shack and Lil' Sweet Chick (which I've only heard of), I don't know any of the other places on the list. I have lived in NYC for almost 30 years. Those places sound overpriced, like most of the places in T5 currently.

W/r/t the IFE, I hesitate to call it "improved" with the loss of XM. There are now zero music-options; you can watch the map in silence if you like.

-J.
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Old Feb 3, 20, 4:47 pm
  #112  
 
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Interesting thread - coming to it late. I switched from American two years ago to Delta now, with a few JetBlue mint flights sprinkled along the way. Even thought Mint is nice, Delta is still a better choice for most business travelers...

1) Lounge access - Delta (for better or worse) offers the most democratic and comprehensive lounge access program of the US airlines. An Amex Platinum (not the branded card) gets you into all their lounges when flying Delta - the Amex Platinum is probably as widespread as the CSR. Also, you can get in the club using two cobranded cards, Reserve and Delta Platinum (Gold, their $95, also used to give access). So average flyers can basically always access a club

2) JetBlue penalizes business travelers by taking away half of their points if you book through a corporate portal - I'm not aware of any other airline or hotel company that does this

3) Much bigger route network, better IROPs coverage, etc

4) Delta has improved their hard product

In terms of the market structure in New York, American Airlines is more to blame for ceding the NYC market to Delta (and to a lesser extent, UA and its move from JFK).
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Old Feb 14, 20, 12:27 pm
  #113  
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Meanwhile, Delta announces they’re going carbon neutral worldwide.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/14/2...hange-airlines
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Old Yesterday, 7:41 am
  #114  
 
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Originally Posted by synzero View Post
Meanwhile, Delta announces they’re going carbon neutral worldwide.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/14/2...hange-airlines
There is a absolutely no timeline given. It's just a pure pr piece. Completely meaningless. They seemed to be pretty good at that. And for all the talk of their profit sharing, Atlanta journal did a piece that basically found delta employees got roughly the same total comp as their legacy rivals even after the profit sharing is included. And after how many years of this possibility of free WiFi, it's still no where to be found. One thing is for sure. Delta is very good at marketing.

Edit, the latest I saw was a 2030 goal for carbon neutral. Aside from the fact that it's still 10 years away. A lot could happen until then. Until they achieve it, it's just empty talk.
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