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Old Oct 9, 18, 2:08 pm
  #16  
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Wow! PHX-FLL. Finally!

I dont think I can be on the inaugural flight. The ticket price is $476 RT. This is outrageous! Thereís no special price. Thatís real stupid!
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Old Oct 9, 18, 5:44 pm
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Originally Posted by EBiafore99 View Post
You make a good point about NK. And DL has four to six flights to FLL depending on the season.

I also think one problem with DTW-FLL is the connection options from FLL were very limited. While B6 has a lot of Caribbean destinations from FLL, the flight to/from DTW was poorly timed. For example, to go to BGI, we can only return on a Sunday through BOS because the BGI-FLL does not arrive in time to catch the FLL-DTW. This is the case with many of the Caribbean destinations. If you use B6's map feature, a lot of the Caribbean destinations cannot be reached from DTW.

The release mentioned more frequencies to the Caribbean from BOS, so maybe we can connect in BOS both ways. Fingers crossed.
With DTW, like you mentioned, there is the Delta hub and even a large Spirit presence, so B6 kind of knew it was going to be tough. At least it tried. It has a number of other markets with 1x to FLL and connections might be tough. I don't know which is the optimal timing to the best bank, but it seems CLE-FLL and PHL-FLL are also single early morning flights.

I'm a little surprised that B6 couldn't have lasted at PIT-FLL longer. Southwest has a decent presence in PIT but not super large (like say STL) and Southwest isn't high frequency on PIT-FLL. B6 managed to outmaneuver WN on RIC-Florida, but perhaps that is more exception. And, it comes down to use it or lose it. And likely JetBlue sees more strategic sense to buckle down it's strength in say BDL (in the Northeast between it's JFK and BOS territories) than PIT.
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Old Oct 9, 18, 6:11 pm
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Any chance FLL-PHX is Mint?
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Old Oct 9, 18, 6:47 pm
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> Fort Lauderdale (FLL) and Baltimore (BWI)

There are more flights out of FLL to BWI than to anywhere else including to NYC. That seems like a huge change. Someone mentioned it being due to competition with Spirit but am I wrong in guessing middle class people don't want to fly a low quality carrier like Spirit given the chance? I wonder if there's another reason they're ending this extremely busy route?
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Old Oct 9, 18, 8:32 pm
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I'm surprised about the shift to seasonal flights only to PWM. I flew them more or less exclusively for business the past decade or so, and the PWM flights I flew on were at or near capacity more or less year round.

I'd already planned to make a change, but if I hadn't this would have forced me to jump to another carrier.
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Old Oct 9, 18, 9:02 pm
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Originally Posted by EBiafore99 View Post
I also think one problem with DTW-FLL is the connection options from FLL were very limited. While B6 has a lot of Caribbean destinations from FLL, the flight to/from DTW was poorly timed. For example, to go to BGI, we can only return on a Sunday through BOS because the BGI-FLL does not arrive in time to catch the FLL-DTW. This is the case with many of the Caribbean destinations. If you use B6's map feature, a lot of the Caribbean destinations cannot be reached from DTW.
I think the DTW-BOS timings may be optimized for connections to EK and other partner flights -- my last DTW-BOS was delayed and had a huge number of people rushing for the EK departure.
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Old Oct 10, 18, 4:30 am
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I couldn't be happier that IAD is out. I'm not a fan of that airport. Sad to see STX get dropped as I liked their connection over there more than the tiny Cape Air hops.

I do a lot of NY-DC travel and honestly, the Acela is easily the best way of doing it. Avoiding IAD/DCA/BWI along with delivering me about 10 minutes from my usual meetings in the same time frame? Yes, please.
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Old Oct 10, 18, 6:46 am
  #23  
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Originally Posted by MSYtoJFKagain View Post
I do a lot of NY-DC travel and honestly, the Acela is easily the best way of doing it.
Very much depends where you are on each end. The "NY-DC" concept covers someone getting from the Empire State Building to Capitol Hill the same as it covers a traveler in White Plains or Dix Hills going to Bethesda or Fairfax or Quantico.

Originally Posted by dtremit View Post
I think the DTW-BOS timings may be optimized for connections to EK and other partner flights -- my last DTW-BOS was delayed and had a huge number of people rushing for the EK departure.
Very much so.

Originally Posted by aviators99 View Post
Any chance FLL-PHX is Mint?
It does not appear to be.
Originally Posted by RioG View Post
There are more flights out of FLL to BWI than to anywhere else including to NYC.
JetBlue has two daily. Spirit has three. Southwest has 10.
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Old Oct 10, 18, 8:43 am
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Originally Posted by sbm12 View Post
Very much depends where you are on each end. The "NY-DC" concept covers someone getting from the Empire State Building to Capitol Hill the same as it covers a traveler in White Plains or Dix Hills going to Bethesda or Fairfax or Quantico.
Agreed, I should have specified NYC. It's a very different situation for people outside the metro area.
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Old Oct 10, 18, 8:53 am
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Originally Posted by beyondhere View Post
Some of these cuts are likely a result of too much low fare pressure from Spirit. Likely impacted are MCO-BWI and FLL-BWI/DTW/PIT. I wonder if NK would throw a wrench and add FLL-PHX and time it similarly (likely a red-eye eastbound). On the other hand, B6 is increasing at BDL, which just got Spirit although BDL is likely a market it's performing well.

B6 is still keeping CLE-FLL, and in my market, PHL-FLL (which has low fare pressure). For a DTW based customer, one might be able to still make it work if one can drive down to CLE the night before and stay at an airport hotel, and fly on CLE-FLL morning flight to connect at FLL.
the markets they cut are all ones where they are doing poorly in. DTW-FLL because they get squeezed from the top and the bottom and they have the worst frequency. BWI-FLL because WN is too strong there. And PIT-FLL is just a smaller market that probably can't handle 3 carriers. Their yields on CLE and PHL are higher.

Originally Posted by RWPrincess View Post
This is not good news for folks who live in the DC area or who travel there via plane. I hope they reconsider IAD at some point in the near future or at least add some more frequency to DCA. People who live in NYC basically can't fly JetBlue to DC and vice versa. Not everyone wants to take Amtrak. I have a number of crewmember friends whom I've been communicating with today and they were all stunned about IAD going away. A couple of them regularly worked those flights.
it's unfortunate, but the numbers are just not there.

Originally Posted by N830MH View Post
Wow! PHX-FLL. Finally!

I dont think I can be on the inaugural flight. The ticket price is $476 RT. This is outrageous! Thereís no special price. Thatís real stupid!
I'm sure that will come down a lot once we get a little closer.
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Old Oct 10, 18, 11:31 am
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Originally Posted by RioG View Post
> Fort Lauderdale (FLL) and Baltimore (BWI)

There are more flights out of FLL to BWI than to anywhere else including to NYC. That seems like a huge change. Someone mentioned it being due to competition with Spirit but am I wrong in guessing middle class people don't want to fly a low quality carrier like Spirit given the chance? I wonder if there's another reason they're ending this extremely busy route?
People of any class will fly just about any carrier for the right price.
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Old Oct 10, 18, 7:09 pm
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Originally Posted by RioG View Post
> Fort Lauderdale (FLL) and Baltimore (BWI)

There are more flights out of FLL to BWI than to anywhere else including to NYC. That seems like a huge change. Someone mentioned it being due to competition with Spirit but am I wrong in guessing middle class people don't want to fly a low quality carrier like Spirit given the chance? I wonder if there's another reason they're ending this extremely busy route?
This will just raise prices in the Portland market (at least for the winter).
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Old Oct 10, 18, 10:38 pm
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Originally Posted by tphuang View Post
the markets they cut are all ones where they are doing poorly in. DTW-FLL because they get squeezed from the top and the bottom and they have the worst frequency. BWI-FLL because WN is too strong there. And PIT-FLL is just a smaller market that probably can't handle 3 carriers. Their yields on CLE and PHL are higher.
Yes, obviously the markets it cut were markets it was doing poorly in. i.e. if successful routes don't get cut..

For BWI-FLL, WN was high frequency (strong) when B6 went in, but B6 likely added BWI-FLL flights so they can be complementary to DCA-FLL flights, thus adding increase in frequency for WAS-FLL, for passengers who use DCA and BWI interchangeably. But NK makes a difference at BWI. When WN fare matches NK, B6 loses any pricing power and has to sell at lower fares than what in can charge at DCA (which lacks Spirit). Spirit really ramped up it's BWI presence over the years and is the domestic low fare carrier at BWI currently. Probably if it wasn't there, B6 could co-exist with WN on that route.

Last edited by beyondhere; Oct 10, 18 at 10:46 pm
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Old Oct 11, 18, 7:51 am
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Originally Posted by beyondhere View Post
Yes, obviously the markets it cut were markets it was doing poorly in. i.e. if successful routes don't get cut..

For BWI-FLL, WN was high frequency (strong) when B6 went in, but B6 likely added BWI-FLL flights so they can be complementary to DCA-FLL flights, thus adding increase in frequency for WAS-FLL, for passengers who use DCA and BWI interchangeably. But NK makes a difference at BWI. When WN fare matches NK, B6 loses any pricing power and has to sell at lower fares than what in can charge at DCA (which lacks Spirit). Spirit really ramped up it's BWI presence over the years and is the domestic low fare carrier at BWI currently. Probably if it wasn't there, B6 could co-exist with WN on that route.
out of DCA, B6 is the high fare carrier. Out of BWI, B6 can't be the high fare carrier due to WN's strength there.
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Old Oct 11, 18, 5:11 pm
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