Observations
Jun 11, 2008, 8:23 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 48
Observations
This was our 4th trip to Japan, all the trips have been 3 day stopovers. Every trip has been wonderful. Maybe we were more observant this visit than on other visits.
We stayed at a 5* deluxe property(FHR) and we were very surprised that on 1 occasion the room service girl came to our room in her stocking feet. We have stayed in hotels all over Asia and have never encountered this before. This is something we would have expected at a traditional Japanese hotel.
On our way back to the airport we used a car from the hotel. Our driver was in a hurry and got up to speeds of 160kph. We were not late, in fact we left the hotel 4.5 hours before flight departure. Aren't the penalties for speeding in Japan quite stiff? Anyway we found this strange.
We also noticed ( for the first time) that some people in the service industry seemed to be expecting tips. 2 or 3 times we had people who seemed to hover and look disappointed as if they were expecting a tip. We had a 6 hour private tour with one fellow and at the end of the tour we thanked him profusely and presented him with a nicely wrapped gift. Suddenly this fellow went from being quite affable to being quite cold and stone-faced, the smile literally left his face, we felt like we had done something wrong. Is the custom of tipping slowly entering Japanese society?
Anyway, Japan is a great country and next trip it will be our final destination
We stayed at a 5* deluxe property(FHR) and we were very surprised that on 1 occasion the room service girl came to our room in her stocking feet. We have stayed in hotels all over Asia and have never encountered this before. This is something we would have expected at a traditional Japanese hotel.
On our way back to the airport we used a car from the hotel. Our driver was in a hurry and got up to speeds of 160kph. We were not late, in fact we left the hotel 4.5 hours before flight departure. Aren't the penalties for speeding in Japan quite stiff? Anyway we found this strange.
We also noticed ( for the first time) that some people in the service industry seemed to be expecting tips. 2 or 3 times we had people who seemed to hover and look disappointed as if they were expecting a tip. We had a 6 hour private tour with one fellow and at the end of the tour we thanked him profusely and presented him with a nicely wrapped gift. Suddenly this fellow went from being quite affable to being quite cold and stone-faced, the smile literally left his face, we felt like we had done something wrong. Is the custom of tipping slowly entering Japanese society?
Anyway, Japan is a great country and next trip it will be our final destination
Jun 12, 2008, 2:24 am
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: London
Posts: 18,394
Do you mean that the "room service girl came to our room in her stocking feet" or that she came INTO your room in her stockinged feet?
I was at the Osaka Sheraton Miyako last week (which barely makes it as a 4 star) and requested an iron. When a member of staff came to collect it he'd slipped off his shoes at the threshold and entered my room in stockinged feet. I usually slip off my shoes at the door and don a pair of slippers so this feels absolutely 'right' to me.
I don't drive so I've only been on expressways a few times. It's rare, on a bus or in a car to have the driver stay inside the speed limit.
Here's a web page describing the fines and penalty points system: http://www.thejapanfaq.com/bikerfaq-signs.html
I've only seen people 'expecting' tips at the Tobu Narita Holiday Inn, and not from me.
In fact no-one has ever given me the impression that they were hoping from a tip from me, certainly not when I've been with my Japanese husband and never when I've been alone either...
Except from some deer I fed in Nara recently. Once I'd started feeding a couple of them they began bowing to me, naturally, this made me continue to feed them a bit longer than I perhaps would have ordinarily. I also noticed that some of the younger deer were picking up on this tactic.
Tipping isn't actually alien to the Japanese culture at all, there is a tradition for this on the higher end of some of the Service Industries. Japan Forum regulars occasionally express their views on tipping the doctor, teacher or the upscale Ryokan. Not that many of us take on the services of a guide for 6 hours, and having seen the tariffs of bilingual guides recommended by the Japan Tourist Board, I would not feel moved to provide an additional tip.
I can assure you that those of us who travel to Japan using more modest service industries are rarely if ever approached for or bullied into giving tips.
I was at the Osaka Sheraton Miyako last week (which barely makes it as a 4 star) and requested an iron. When a member of staff came to collect it he'd slipped off his shoes at the threshold and entered my room in stockinged feet. I usually slip off my shoes at the door and don a pair of slippers so this feels absolutely 'right' to me.
I don't drive so I've only been on expressways a few times. It's rare, on a bus or in a car to have the driver stay inside the speed limit.
Here's a web page describing the fines and penalty points system: http://www.thejapanfaq.com/bikerfaq-signs.html
I've only seen people 'expecting' tips at the Tobu Narita Holiday Inn, and not from me.
In fact no-one has ever given me the impression that they were hoping from a tip from me, certainly not when I've been with my Japanese husband and never when I've been alone either...
Except from some deer I fed in Nara recently. Once I'd started feeding a couple of them they began bowing to me, naturally, this made me continue to feed them a bit longer than I perhaps would have ordinarily. I also noticed that some of the younger deer were picking up on this tactic.
Tipping isn't actually alien to the Japanese culture at all, there is a tradition for this on the higher end of some of the Service Industries. Japan Forum regulars occasionally express their views on tipping the doctor, teacher or the upscale Ryokan. Not that many of us take on the services of a guide for 6 hours, and having seen the tariffs of bilingual guides recommended by the Japan Tourist Board, I would not feel moved to provide an additional tip.
I can assure you that those of us who travel to Japan using more modest service industries are rarely if ever approached for or bullied into giving tips.
Jun 12, 2008, 12:08 pm
#3
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota,USA
Programs: UA, NW
Posts: 3,752
It's possible that the luxury travel service providers are accustomed to international visitors who automatically tip without thinking and are therefore disappointed when someone breaks the pattern.
I've traveled in Japan only at the levels from youth hostel to higher grade business hotel, and at those levels, no one expects a tip.
I've traveled in Japan only at the levels from youth hostel to higher grade business hotel, and at those levels, no one expects a tip.
Jun 12, 2008, 2:07 pm
#4
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 1,552
Just some related observations from our trip last month...
I really found it somewhat disconcerting how fast some cars zipped (eg. some over >50km/hr?) through narrow-ish corridors (without sidewalks) that were shared with pedestrians.
Felt the reflex to tip numerous times because the service was so great nearly everywhere we went. The gifts we presented the odd times seemed to be quite well received (though we tried to limit ourselves to budget establishments).
I really found it somewhat disconcerting how fast some cars zipped (eg. some over >50km/hr?) through narrow-ish corridors (without sidewalks) that were shared with pedestrians.
Felt the reflex to tip numerous times because the service was so great nearly everywhere we went. The gifts we presented the odd times seemed to be quite well received (though we tried to limit ourselves to budget establishments).
Jun 12, 2008, 4:03 pm
#5
Moderator: Luxury Hotels and FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palo Alto, California,USA
Posts: 17,846
I think you need to tell us who that private guide was that gave you the cold stare so we can all avoid him/her in the future. That is unacceptable behavior for Japan.
Also, you need to email the hotel about the driver who got up to 160km/hr on the expressway to Narita. It is true that Japanese speed limits are so low (max 90kph on a wide open freeway) that people generally break the limits -- but not by that much, which is dangerous on that road. That driver endangered you and should not be in service to a luxury hotel.
Also, you need to email the hotel about the driver who got up to 160km/hr on the expressway to Narita. It is true that Japanese speed limits are so low (max 90kph on a wide open freeway) that people generally break the limits -- but not by that much, which is dangerous on that road. That driver endangered you and should not be in service to a luxury hotel.
Jun 12, 2008, 4:22 pm
#6
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Central California
Programs: Former UA Premex, now dirt
Posts: 6,531
Is the OP certain the speed was 160 kph? Some speeding is pretty normal but that is almost 100 mph and would be very unusual IME. I agree that the hotel should be made aware of it - if you are sure of the speed.
I also think that some of the very highest end services have probably become somewhat accustomed to automatic tipping by clueless westerners. It doesn't take much to move from "accustomed" to "entitled," which is why so many areas that do not value tiping are so strident about avoiding it. That sense of entitlement can be very hard to reverse once the "apple" has been tasted.
Of course, when you stay at cheap business hotels and dine at cheap neighborhood pubs and itzakayas like I do, you don't ever have the issue come up.
And you often get better food in the bargain.
I also think that some of the very highest end services have probably become somewhat accustomed to automatic tipping by clueless westerners. It doesn't take much to move from "accustomed" to "entitled," which is why so many areas that do not value tiping are so strident about avoiding it. That sense of entitlement can be very hard to reverse once the "apple" has been tasted.
Of course, when you stay at cheap business hotels and dine at cheap neighborhood pubs and itzakayas like I do, you don't ever have the issue come up.
And you often get better food in the bargain.
Jun 12, 2008, 11:26 pm
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 48
When we first got into the car we noticed he was driving quite rough on the streets near the hotel. When we finally got onto the highway we noticed he was passing most cars so I tried to determine what the speed limit was, I saw an illuminated red sign on the side of the road that read '80', I looked at his speedometer and it read '110'. After a while I realized he was passing everyone and I looked at the speedometer and it read '160'. He was not doing 160kph the whole time, just short bursts. Of course it's hard to read a speedometer accurately from the backseat, so let's just say I know he was speeding because he was passing every car on the road. Traffic really was not that heavy. I should also say that every other time we traveled to/from Narita the driver followed the speed limit. From what we've heard, the police aren't that concerned with speeders, it's drunken drivers they're looking for.
The room service woman came into the room.
The room service woman came into the room.
Jun 12, 2008, 11:59 pm
#8
Moderator: Luxury Hotels and FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palo Alto, California,USA
Posts: 17,846
I checked the Amex FHR list for Tokyo since you seem determined not to name names. There are 7 hotels on the list: FS Chinzan-so, RC, MO, Conrad, Seiyo Ginza (Rosewood), Pen, and PHT. I am confident that the management at ANY of these hotels would really appreciate it if you reported the driver's behavior to them.
If the hotel you stayed at was the PHT, and you would rather remain anonymous, PM me and I'll tell management personally on your behalf when I aarrive there in two weeks. If it was the Pen, I can also help as I can email the GM, who I know, on your behalf.
If the hotel you stayed at was the PHT, and you would rather remain anonymous, PM me and I'll tell management personally on your behalf when I aarrive there in two weeks. If it was the Pen, I can also help as I can email the GM, who I know, on your behalf.
Jun 13, 2008, 12:07 am
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: London
Posts: 18,394
So she ditched the shoes she was wearing in the hallway at the doorway to your own room?
This is quite common, and often you'll see the maids wearing slippers. The underlying motive is that the room is your 'home' and it would be entirely natural and expected for a Japanese person to remove their shoes when entering another person's home.
Consider how rude it would be for hotel staff to walk into a room in their shoes when the hotel guests have taken pains not to.
Once you've adapted to the mindset of shoes off at the front door you start to see the habit of wearing outdoor shoes inside as being a bit disgusting. I don't even like to trundle a roller case over a room I'm staying in for similar reasons.
This is quite common, and often you'll see the maids wearing slippers. The underlying motive is that the room is your 'home' and it would be entirely natural and expected for a Japanese person to remove their shoes when entering another person's home.
Consider how rude it would be for hotel staff to walk into a room in their shoes when the hotel guests have taken pains not to.
Once you've adapted to the mindset of shoes off at the front door you start to see the habit of wearing outdoor shoes inside as being a bit disgusting. I don't even like to trundle a roller case over a room I'm staying in for similar reasons.
Jun 13, 2008, 12:15 am
#10
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: TYO
Programs: Tokyo Monorail Diamond-Encrusted-Platinum
Posts: 9,623
Jun 13, 2008, 12:29 am
#11
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 167
This was our 4th trip to Japan, all the trips have been 3 day stopovers. Every trip has been wonderful. Maybe we were more observant this visit than on other visits.
We stayed at a 5* deluxe property(FHR) and we were very surprised that on 1 occasion the room service girl came to our room in her stocking feet. We have stayed in hotels all over Asia and have never encountered this before. This is something we would have expected at a traditional Japanese hotel.
On our way back to the airport we used a car from the hotel. Our driver was in a hurry and got up to speeds of 160kph. We were not late, in fact we left the hotel 4.5 hours before flight departure. Aren't the penalties for speeding in Japan quite stiff? Anyway we found this strange.
We also noticed ( for the first time) that some people in the service industry seemed to be expecting tips. 2 or 3 times we had people who seemed to hover and look disappointed as if they were expecting a tip. We had a 6 hour private tour with one fellow and at the end of the tour we thanked him profusely and presented him with a nicely wrapped gift. Suddenly this fellow went from being quite affable to being quite cold and stone-faced, the smile literally left his face, we felt like we had done something wrong. Is the custom of tipping slowly entering Japanese society?
Anyway, Japan is a great country and next trip it will be our final destination
We stayed at a 5* deluxe property(FHR) and we were very surprised that on 1 occasion the room service girl came to our room in her stocking feet. We have stayed in hotels all over Asia and have never encountered this before. This is something we would have expected at a traditional Japanese hotel.
On our way back to the airport we used a car from the hotel. Our driver was in a hurry and got up to speeds of 160kph. We were not late, in fact we left the hotel 4.5 hours before flight departure. Aren't the penalties for speeding in Japan quite stiff? Anyway we found this strange.
We also noticed ( for the first time) that some people in the service industry seemed to be expecting tips. 2 or 3 times we had people who seemed to hover and look disappointed as if they were expecting a tip. We had a 6 hour private tour with one fellow and at the end of the tour we thanked him profusely and presented him with a nicely wrapped gift. Suddenly this fellow went from being quite affable to being quite cold and stone-faced, the smile literally left his face, we felt like we had done something wrong. Is the custom of tipping slowly entering Japanese society?
Anyway, Japan is a great country and next trip it will be our final destination
But, overall, I'm hesitant to wonder if these complaints are Japan-specific? You will only travel to Japan one more time as a result of these complaints? A taxi driver going too fast/driving too rough and people expecting tips are not surprising complaints in any country. Chinese or Indian traffic was more scary than anything in Japan to me. If you don't want to tip, don't sweat it, I think. But if you want to tip, and give a gift instead, I don't know how good that is. Nothing is better than cash money! My friend's mom (who is Japanese) leaves a tip for housekeeping every time she stays at a hotel.
Which leads me to a general remark about gifts/presents to the Japanese. A lot of the presents I'm sure are great, but much of the time Japanese people FAKE it really good, as if they like it, much better than us Americans that's for sure. So, gifts are not equal to cash money! If you want to tip, give cash, not a gift. How many tourists give gifts as a replacement for tips, do you think? If you're a tour guide, how many gifts from Americans or foreigners do you want?
Not sure about you, but I'm not passing up (for one example) matsuzakagyuu or any of the nice Japanese beef and live the rest of my life with the crappy "U.S. kobe beef" just because I had a bad taxi driver in Japan. You shouldn't either!
Jun 13, 2008, 12:35 am
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boston, Jo'burg, HK
Programs: AA EXP, Hyatt Lifetime Diamond, CX Gold, Mrs. Pickles travels for free
Posts: 13,149
I think you forgot to connect your parsing engine and contextualizer to your brain before opening your mouth.
Jun 13, 2008, 1:27 am
#14
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: ORD
Posts: 94
I think you forgot to connect your parsing engine and contextualizer to your brain before opening your mouth.
