I bought some of those $399 roundtrip UA tickets (see mileage run forum) to take my family to Japan in April. I've taken a couple of trips to Japan, but the last one was with my wife-to-be more than a decade ago, so my tourist knowledge is somewhat frozen in time. In the next several months I'll need to come up with a plan for our 10-day visit.

Before buying my airline tickets (I suspected I had slightly more than the usual 15 minutes that mileage run fares typically have), I researched one thing: if we flew into Tokyo and out of Osaka, could we "bookend" our trip with stays in Tokyo and Kyoto? The answer seemed to be yes (my preliminary info indicated it was quite possible to get to the new Osaka airport from Kyoto without spending a fortune), so I booked it that way. My thought was that we could travel around Japan with a 7 day railpass in-between.

My first question is this: is the Japan railpass still the best way to get around, especially if you've got to pay for 2 adults and 2 kids (which I understand are half price under 12)? Are there any other rail programs that could save money if we wanted to stop in 3 or 4 other towns/villages? I haven't mapped out an itinerary yet, but I think I want to go back to Takayama, and a couple of other "old Japan" stops (any recommendations are certainly welcome!), and maybe Hiroshima. I've heard that car rental rates can sometimes be affordable (especially if the alternative is 4 rail tickets), but is it advisable for an American to drive in Japan? I've driven all over the world, but never where I couldn't read the street signs. It seems like it could get difficult. I also understand that tolls and gas are also quite expensive.

I remember hotel prices being a burden, but I suspect I can now priceline some cities (hooray for priceline -- in the US and Europe, I typically pay less for my hotels than I did 15 years ago). Any specific tips on finding affordable lodging -- especially for a family -- would be most appreciated. For instance, will I be able to cram 4 people into a typical Tokyo hotel room? And if anyone has used priceline in Tokyo, is there a good zone/likely hotel I should bid on?

Also, is it possible to see any cherry blossoms in Japan in mid-April -- maybe in the higher elevations? Any tips would be great.

I've started reading through the posts from the past few months, and I can see this will be a great source of information for our family trip. As I wade through the info and get up to speed on what I "missed" in the past decade, I'm sure I'll have more questions. Thanks for the help.

I'll attempt to answer your railpass question, and that primarily deals with how much travel you plan to do.

Its the best in terms of speed and ease of use.

The Typical Tokyo-Kyoto-Osaka one way trip, one doesn't need the purchase of a rail pass.

However add in a trip to Takayama or Hiroshima, then the purchase of the Japan Railpass is would make more sense.

I think it would all depend on what towns/villages and what rail company service them (if any).

I agree with railroadtycoon - the answer to your question about the railpass is - it depends. Based on the little you have said about destinations, I think the JR Railpass is a good choice. Not cheap for 4, but still the best value for traveling around and exploring. If you spent the first 3 days in Tokyo, then activated the pass for your last 7 days, you could even use it for the JR Haruka deluxe train from Kyoto to KIX when you depart. Even if you don't have any days left on your railpass, the Haruka is less than $30.00 each for the 75 minute trip from Kyoto station to KIX.

I think arriving at NRT and departing via KIX (or vice versa) is the best way to go. It eliminates backtracking through Tokyo, which is a 2 1/4 hour shinkansen ride one-way. Excellent idea. I don't recommend trying to rent a car and drive around the countryside. Many street signs in the cities are bilingual, but as you get away from major cities, that is less common. The tolls and impossible-to-find parking make it not such a good choice. Japan has such wonderful train/subway/bus systems that there is really no reason not to rely on public transit.

If you are really going all the way to Hiroshima, you might want to schedule a half day or so in Himeji on the way. It has one of the best examples of still-standing castles in the country and the kids might enjoy a tour. Plan on at least a couple of days in Kyoto - there is just so much to see that even a week is not really enough.

If you are not looking for luxury accommodations, you can get quite reasonable hotel rates at "business" (read non-tourist) hotels. One agency I have found reliable is : http://www.japanhotel.net/ . There are many others - just google Japan hotel. Japanese-style rooms with futons on tatami mats will sleep your 4 just fine. Western-style rooms typically come in singles, double and triples, so you might need to enquire about having another person. Rooms are small, but you could probably work something out. You could also look into "family-friendly" properties such as Holiday Inn - Kyoto.

Cherry blossom season varies from year to year, but is usually fading by the second week of April. You might get lucky.

Welcome to the forum. I'm sure you will get lots of posts with suggestions.

JR

If you're going all the way to Hiroshima (and really, it may not be worth the trouble, esp. with small kids in tow), you'll definitely want to check out Miyajima right next door. If you spend the night it's one of very few places where you can still squint and imagine that you're in "old Japan". Kurashiki, along the way back, is also nice.

Wow! I can tell I will get some terrific advice here.

I think the next thing I need to do is get a general guidebook to Japan (Frommers, Fodors, etc.) and reacquaint myself with where everything is in Japan. I then need to make a list of "must sees" and "would like to sees" and then figure out the most efficient and cost-effective transportation option. It sure looks like we'll be getting around by train, and probably with a rail pass (boy -- from an expense standpoint, I'd love to find some deal where "kids travel free" with adults).

From more than a decade ago, I remember Kurashiki (if my memory is right I recall it's an easy stop on the Shinkansen) with great fondness, but I don't think I've been to Miyajima. I also remember a "really cool" castle, which I think was Himeji, but I've got to look at pictures to make sure.

I suspect my greatest challenge will be finding nice affordable family-sized accomodations for my crowd. Ideally, I'd like to spend under $125 a night, unless dinner was included. Not yet sure if that's possible. We'd like to experience boths traditional inns (at least those that are family friendly!) and modern hotels. From the suggestions here and what little I've picked up elsewhere, I can tell there are plenty of discount websites that might help (hard to believe, but on my last trip to Japan the internet didn't really exist, so the availability of English-language info/deals was a small fraction of what is available now). BTW, if anyone is a frequent Starwood member, I do have some points I can use (if I can get 4 in a room or get a good cash/points deal), so If there are any Starwood Japan experts, I'd love to get their advice, too.

My general thought on train travel would be to do the longer distances (say, over 1 1/2 hours) in the early evening, leaving our days free for sightseeing. With children in tow and the generally high price of meals in Japan, we probably won't be doing a lot of fine dining in the evening. If we buy a rail pass, we will probably want to adopt that near universal approach of doing enough travel to get our money's worth.

BTW, since we'll be gone 10-11 days, is there an efficient affordable laundry option for travellers in Japan, or is it like Europe, where the cost and inconvenience sometimes makes lugging all your clothes the better option?

Thanks again for all the help.

Frommer's guides usually have entries on travelling with children and always list "family-friendly" hotel choices.

I agree with jpatokal that Hiroshima is a long haul unless you are spending a night or two. If so, definitely plan on a half-day at Miyajima. It is a post card waiting to happen.

Some info:

The JR express train from NRT to Tokyo is a little over an hour. Much cheaper (and nicer) is the Keisei Skyliner which takes 1 1/4 hour and arrives at Ueno station rather than Tokyo main station. Depending on where you are staying, the Skyliner may be a better bet. From either station, you will probably have to cab the last little bit to your hotel. There is also a limo bus option which will take you right to some up-scale hotels or to the main train station. DO NOT TAKE A CAB to/from NRT - it will run almost $300.00.

The shinkansen from Tokyo to Kyoto will take about 2 1/2 hours for the Hikari trains available to JR pass holders. The Nozomi is faster but you can't use the pass on the Nozomi. There are far fewer Hikaris than Nozomis, so check the schedule at eki-net and plan accordingly.

The shinkansen from Kyoto to Himeji is less than an hour. The JR train from Kyoto to Nara (an excellent daytrip) is around an hour.

The JR Haruka deluxe train from Kyoto to KIX is 1 1/4 hour.

If you will be spending a few days in and around Tokyo, the subways are the best travel option. The best $10.00 you will spend in advance would be for Kodansha's Pocket Tokyo Subway Guide from Amazon.com. "Don't leave home without it."

For a semi-Japanese ryokan experience on a budget, I can highly recommend the Ryokan Asakusa Shigetsu in Asakusa, Tokyo. Located in an older section of Tokyo outside the hustle-bustle of the central city, it is very near two subway lines, Senso-ji temple and the Nakamise outdoor shopping arcade. I usually take the Skyliner from NRT to Ueno then catch a cab to Asakusa for less than 2000y. The subway is noprmally cheaper and more convenient but not with luggage.

www.shigetsu.com

The only problem might be finding it in a cab, but the website has a map that can be printed out.

There are lots of other "reasonable" accommodations out there via the 'net.

JR

Since you are probably getting the 7 day railpass for a 10day trip, it wouldn't be advisable to activate the pass on day 1, but ride regular fare trains for the first few days in Tokyo.

Transport from NRT-Tokyo:

Actually the Skyliner takes about 1hr 2minutes to reach Ueno from Narita.

The Keisei Limited Express takes about 1hr 15minutes, but with more frequent departures, drawback is that its a regular commuter train. But for only 1000yen its worth looking into if you are really crunching to save on yen.

Otherwise the Keisei Skyliner is good alternative.

But as mentioned it depends on your final destination in Tokyo, the Narita Express does make more stops in Tokyo, and the Airport Limobus will pretty much drop you off at the doorsteps to most major hotels in Tokyo, but both the Nex and airport bus will cost some 1000-2000yen more.

LOTS of pax depart the Keisei at Nippori (1 or 2 stops before Ueno) to transfer to the Yamanote line.

Enjoy Tokyo!

Thanks for all the additional advice. Yes, I suspect I will need to pay out of pocket for my airport transportation on both ends (NRT-Tokyo and Kyoto-KIX), and save my railpass for travel in between, so I will will be looking for economical airport transportation for my family.

If I'm understanding the info correctly, the Keisei Limited Express is a "local" version of the Skyliner from NRT at about half the price. It seems to take only a few additional minutes to get to the Ueno station. All true? I assume it's significantly less comfy, but if I can save 1000 yen per person, is there any good reason not to take it? I believe we will be landing mid-afternoon at NRT, so I don't know how heavy the traffic will be on this train.

BTW, are children generally half the rail fare on all Japanese trains and subways?

Thanks.

Not exactly half and they round up! But children (young children) are almost 1/2 the regular fare!

The biggest single advantage to the Skyliner versus the Express is the reserved seating. You get it on the skyliner and not on the commuter. Your level of comfort will dictate. There is no reason to buy Keisei tickets early. Just plan on buying at the airport train station when you arrive. That way, if C&I takes longer than expected and you don't get to the train until rush hour, you could "upgrade" to the Skyliner to avoid the crush.

I don't think there is really a reason to pay for airport transportation at BOTH ends of your trip unless you expect to be traveling every day. Just plan a few days "in town" for one end of the trip or the other and use the 7 day pass for either the first 7 days or the last 7. Subway/train passes (Tokyo) and subway/bus passes (Kyoto) will get you around town without the need for the JR pass. If you are going to use the Keisei line to get into Tokyo, you probably wouldn't need to activate the JR pass until you are ready to leave Tokyo. YMMV.

JR

I wouldn't say the Limited Express is a local version of the Skyliner, but its a regular commuter train making more stops but the limited express also has more frequent departures than the Skyliner.

You are correct in that it is a little less confortable.
The skyliner has reserved and comfortable forward facing seats with tray tables and extra space at the end of the car for luggage storage etc etc.

The limited express train is a regular commuter train with commuter style subway bench seating and strap hangers.

If you are taking the Keisei Limited Express (aka "THE OTHER LINE" on the Keisei website) things may get a little more crowded getting towards central tokyo, but you shouldn't have a problem steaking out a spot boarding at Narita Airport station.

Also, along with the Narita Express, JR (Japan Railways) also runs a Rapid commuter train at the top of every hour from Narita Airport to Tokyo Station (+stations beyond). Normally, there's one direct train at the top of every hour. Narita Airport to Tokyo station is 1280yen. This train runs on the sobu line through Chiba into Tokyo so I can imagine if it gets a bit crowded as well.

I had forgotten about this, but it is a very good point. If you will have much luggage, the extra yen for the Skyliner or Airport Limo Bus is well spent. The "Expresses" and commuters will have VERY limited space for bags. If you search back through old threads on this forum, you will find a couple of lengthy discussions about baggage and Japanese trains.

JR

Here is one -

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=465052

JR

The child fares are for kids that are under 12. They pay 50% of the adult fare.

When I took my 12 year old daughter with me to Tokyo last year, we went to the new rail ticket window in the arrivals area of T1. The nice young ladies at the window heard that my daughter was 12 and told me that 11 year old pay half. I told them that I didn't want to lie to them about her age. But, if they thought that she was 11, well, I'd have to go with it! They promptly presented 1 adult ticket for me and a half price one for her.

On the way back to NRT, her youthful fare saved us enough for lunch at the NRT T1 MacDonalds (somewhere I NEVER would have expected to choose to dine). Result: The world's ULTIMATE Filet-o-fish sandwich!!! Fantastic. If only I had additional yen to try the teriaki burger, too.