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-   -   Refused entry to Japan (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan/2097133-refused-entry-japan.html)

fimo Oct 11, 2022 9:02 am


Originally Posted by donjo (Post 34671762)
I had contacted the Japanese consulate in Houston and they replied a couple of months ago that all tourist visas needed to be done through a tour group. The tour guide I hired agreed to obtain the visa on my behalf. About a week after supplying her with all the necessary demographic information she emailed me my "visa," as a .pdf form. I could not have applied for a tourist visa on my own even if I had wanted to based on their restrictions.

I'm wondering if that pdf form was not a visa - but the ERFS that allows you to apply for a visa from the Japanese embassy/consultate. It sounds like you possibly missed the most important step of getting a visa issued in your passport. There might have been some misunderstanding in what the Houston consulate told you - they're not wrong that tourist visas are done through a tour group, but unless you handed your passport over to the tour agency and delegated them the authority to apply for a visa with the consulate and embassy using the ERFS, then you only had the first step completed. The consulate's message is probably that you cannot directly apply for a visa without an agency/business providing you the ERFS.

bocastephen Oct 11, 2022 9:09 am


Originally Posted by Ghoulish (Post 34672084)
There is no difference in a short term business trip or tourist status for US travelers to Japan and vice versa under an agreement with with United States.

The visa requirement is entirely part of temporary covid restrictions and if anything, business trips were given deference under those temporary requirements where tourism was not.

So in 30 hours, no visa would've been required in either case.

Again, discretion could've been easily exercised, but, you know, not all are pleased at the return of gaigin to Japan's pristine land.

Understood, but the trip did not happen before Oct 11.

So now it seems possible that the OP received the electronic approval but did not go forward with actually applying for the e-visa online, but that theory I believe would depend on when the trip was booked. IIRC, when Japan initially “opened”, only supervised tours were allowed from designated vendors who took care of the entire process including getting the visa issued.

So question for the OP - did you have an actual visa embossed in your passport or can you post a copy of what you presented to immigration with your personal details redacted? Maybe someone knowledgeable here can recognize what happened.

fimo Oct 11, 2022 9:26 am


Originally Posted by bocastephen (Post 34672162)
So now it seems possible that the OP received the electronic approval but did not go forward with actually applying for the e-visa online, but that theory I believe would depend on when the trip was booked. IIRC, when Japan initially “opened”, only supervised tours were allowed from designated vendors who took care of the entire process including getting the visa issued.

You could arrange a supervised tour directly with an agency in Japan, which wouldn't be able to get you the visa. They would be then only able to provide the ERFS which you then use to apply with the local consulate. It's not been clear from OP's messages if he used a Japan-based or US-based agency. The e-Visa system only went live latter part of August, so if he had gotten his visa before that, then there is only the physical visa attached to a passport available. There is no e-visa issued prior to I think 19/20th August.

nk15 Oct 11, 2022 9:46 am


Originally Posted by donjo (Post 34672038)
Yes, relied on the tour guide and they failed to fulfill what they promised. They offered to refund me $1000 of the tour package for their mistake. The tour guide also informed me that I may be banned from the re-entering Japan for a period of time to be determined because of this error. I am waiting to hear how long that might be.

Maybe there is some relatively easy appeal process for that (if worth it), or at least even if you are technically banned for a while, it should be obvious somewhere (in some notes) that this was relatively innocuous and the rare fault of your visa preparer...

Dubai Stu Oct 11, 2022 9:47 am

Based on bad advice, I showed up at the British Virgin Islands with improper documents by boat. I had an Enhanced Driver’s license because I was told they were a member of the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative and they weren’t. They lectured me, I gave them a puppy eyes apology and was paroled in.

Japan and Australia are the two difficult allies. Australia will try to work through the problem but their anti-immigration policies have had the spillover effect of stripping border agent’s of granting discretionary admissions which their counterparts in other countries have. British notions of procedural fairness soften the blow a little, but don’t go far enough. Japan is also problematic on criminal inadmissibility. In theory, there is no discretionary waivers even for very old criminal offenses even which have been expunged or pardoned. How Paul McCartney gets into Japan demonstrates there is an exception for the very rich and connected, but they will deny it until the cows come home.

Steve M Oct 11, 2022 10:20 am


Originally Posted by donjo (Post 34671692)
she replied that the visa was appropriately filled out but she had not filed it with the correct authorities.

I think we have a terminology issue here. The visa is not "filed with the correct authorities" - it's issued by the correct authorities. It sounds to me that they filled out the visa application but did not (fully) submit ("file") it. A properly filled out but unfiled visa application is not a visa that's not filed with the correct authorities - it's not a visa at all. It's kind of like filling out an application for a passport but then forgetting to send it into the State Department: a copy of your application isn't a "passport not filed with the correct authorities" - it's not a passport at all in any sense of the word - it's just an application for one that was never filed properly. I think my guess here is correct, as I can't think of any other set of circumstances that would be consistent with what you said above.

This is such an unfortunate set of circumstances, and I'm sorry to hear it. It sounds like you did everything you thought you needed to: you first contacted the consulate, who told you you needed a Japanese tour operator to arrange for things. You did so, and relied on them to do the paperwork, not knowing the distinction between an ERFS certificate and a visa. And, the airline didn't catch it. Had you been following the thread here on FT on such matters, you probably would have caught it, but you were probably doing more important things, like saving your patients' lives.


So, now you have a deportation record in Japan,
As a point of order, he was refused entry, not deported. Deportation happens after you're admitted (or otherwise get into the country illegally). The question on the arrival card does ask "Any history of deportation or refusal of entry?" so in that regard it's moot case, as you'll always have to answer Yes to that question. But any affect on future admissibility that apply to people that have been previous deported would not apply to this situation unless they also apply to people that have been refused entry. I don't know how Japan works in this regard, and "contact the consulate" is probably good advice in this case, even though I think that advice can be overused in some other situations.

JimInOhio Oct 11, 2022 10:50 am


Originally Posted by Lux Flyer (Post 34671802)
I've tried really hard to avoid replying in this thread as I have some further thoughts on the matter, but I'm going to keep it limited.

But unfortunately "what would have been the case in less than 2 days" doesn't matter. Its the regulations that are in effect on the specified date/time, not what it's going to be. Do we also say to the airlines "well this fare in less than 2 days after I want to fly is $500 cheaper, so just give it to me on the day I want?" or "in less than 2 days I don't need a VISA, so just let me fly today without showing I've obtained a VISA" :rolleyes:

And the OP already told us where they have already identified where fault lies for this situation

So that being said, I'm really confused why this is related to United at all, continues to be discussed in the UA forum and whether they were right or wrong in the situation, beyond the fact that they were the carrier who was transporting the passenger. This is ultimately a VISA/immigration issue and the situation would have been the same regardless if it was UA, AA, DL or even ANA who transported the passenger. Except they might have actually charged the passenger the cost of the airfare for the return. If anything OP should be grateful they didn't have any more out of pocket expenses for what was a massive mistake, as they have indicated, by their tour agency.

The airlines can't really charge the customer for the return because they weren't the ones requesting the transportation. If anything, the airline would charge the government of Japan because they were the ones demanding the passenger be put on the plane. Besides, there might not have been a charge anyway considering they would (likely) have a credit for canceling their original return.


Originally Posted by fimo (Post 34672142)
I'm wondering if that pdf form was not a visa - but the ERFS that allows you to apply for a visa from the Japanese embassy/consultate. It sounds like you possibly missed the most important step of getting a visa issued in your passport. There might have been some misunderstanding in what the Houston consulate told you - they're not wrong that tourist visas are done through a tour group, but unless you handed your passport over to the tour agency and delegated them the authority to apply for a visa with the consulate and embassy using the ERFS, then you only had the first step completed. The consulate's message is probably that you cannot directly apply for a visa without an agency/business providing you the ERFS.

If the OP never had a visa for entry then how did UA let the passengers board in the first place? That part doesn't make sense, at least on the surface.

MSPeconomist Oct 11, 2022 11:02 am


Originally Posted by donjo (Post 34672038)
Yes, relied on the tour guide and they failed to fulfill what they promised. They offered to refund me $1000 of the tour package for their mistake. The tour guide also informed me that I may be banned from the re-entering Japan for a period of time to be determined because of this error. I am waiting to hear how long that might be.

This doesn't seem like much of a refund. If it was the travel agency's mistake (BTW, how did you find this travel agent?), there should be a complete refund, including the cost of your RT plane tickets, airport transportation, any prepayments or cancellation fees for hotels, etc. (but not lost salary). Normally travel documents are the passenger's responsibility, but if you're paying a travel agent who says "here's your visa" when it's not a visa, that would seem clearly to be the travel agent's fault.

Is the travel agent saying that the visa application wasn't filed with *any* Japanese government agency or that it was filed but it was filed with the wrong agency? Could there have been miscommunication (does the travel agent have good English, assuming you used a travel agent in Japan?) with the travel agent sending you a document that you needed to use to get a visa but the travel agent not explaining this to you? Could it be that the travel agent doesn't understand the process at all and is inexperienced in dealing with foreigners who need visas (under the now out-of-date rules)? Were you instructed to show the emailed "visa document" to your airline and to border officials?

Did the travel agent send you something in Japanese or in English or both? Did the document say "VISA"?

jib71 Oct 11, 2022 11:07 am


Originally Posted by donjo (Post 34672038)
The tour guide also informed me that I may be banned from the re-entering Japan for a period of time to be determined because of this error. I am waiting to hear how long that might be.

It sounds like you and your son had a traumatic experience.

I am not sure what happened to you but it seems to me that you were "denied entry" rather than "deported."

Getting deported happens, for example, when people overstay their visas or get caught in violation of the terms of their visas. In such cases, they are typically prohibited from entering to Japan for some time. If you were denied entry because of an error in documentation you may find that you are free to enter Japan when you have satisfactory documentation. As of today (October 11) there is no longer a visa requirement, so the documentation requirements are minimal. Of course, you should check with a Japanese embassy.

Speaking from personal experience of having been denied entry to Canada over 20 years ago - It has not prevented me from visiting and even working there, but it does mean that I get called for secondary interview when I arrive. That's inconvenient and time consuming but not disastrous.

I think that there are two points that you need to deal with:

1) Establish what happened and what was at fault with your documentation
You need to establish what was wrong with the documentation that you had.
It's possible that the agent made an error in the application. In that case, I think it's likely that you can get some compensation from the agent. (I am not a lawyer).
It's also possible that the agent issued you with the certificate for ERFS registration, which you were required to take to a Japanese embassy to get a visa issued. In that case it may be difficult to establish who is at fault. Were you instructed to get on the plane with just the certificate?

2) Establish whether you are subject to any restriction on entry to Japan
First of all, I think you need to clear up the confusion about what happened (see point 1 above) and then discuss the matter with a Japanese embassy or consulate. I presume that you received some paperwork when you were sent back to the US? Keep it all to document what happened,.

I hope that you can recover quickly from the trauma and that you soon get clarity on what went wrong and what you can do about it. I feel optimistic that you will be able to visit Japan again soon.

Lux Flyer Oct 11, 2022 11:10 am


Originally Posted by JimInOhio (Post 34672444)
The airlines can't really charge the customer for the return because they weren't the ones requesting the transportation. If anything, the airline would charge the government of Japan because they were the ones demanding the passenger be put on the plane.

Do we pretend the contract of carriage doesn't exist or that somehow it's not being agreed to when we purchase a ticket?

Rule 19 from United's (posted in the 2nd reply of this thread) clearly indicates the passenger is agreeing to pay the applicable fare for being returned on government order. And United isn't the only one with this language.

Delta in Rule 16b of their contract of carriage (https://www.delta.com/us/en/legal/co...f-carriage-igr)

Subject to applicable laws and regulations, the passenger agrees to pay the applicable fare whenever Carrier, on government order, is required to return a passenger to his point of origin or elsewhere due to the passenger's inadmissibility into or deportation from a country, whether of transit or of destination. The fare applicable will be the fare that would have been applicable had the original ticket designated the revised destination on the new ticket



Similarly in AA's contract of carriage (https://www.aa.com/content/images/ta...nal-tariff.pdf), rule 45b(2)

Subject to applicable laws and regulations, the passenger agrees to pay the applicable fare whenever carrier, on government order, is required to return a passenger to his point of origin or elsewhere due to the passenger's inadmissibility into or deportation from a country, whether of transit or of destination. The fare applicable will be the fare that would have been applicable had the original ticket designated the revised destination on the new ticket.
And no, that's not a mistake that the quotes are exactly the same, all the carriers use the exact same language with regards to this situation. I won't quote the United contract of carriage since it was previously posted, but yes it is the exact same language too if you don't want to look back at that post. My gut is this is standard language published by IATA and you will find it on every airline that has an international tariff.


Originally Posted by JimInOhio (Post 34672444)
Besides, there might not have been a charge anyway considering they would (likely) have a credit for canceling their original return.

Yes they could have a credit for the return, since this was hopefully a round trip, and that would likely be applied. But if the fare had a Saturday night stay or other minimum stay requirement, which a good majority of international round trip do unless they are unrestricted fares, that was no longer being met, the airline could come back on that front too. Basically the rule in each of them allows the airline, at their discretion, to charge the applicable fare for what is actually flown because that is what the passenger is agreeing to allow them to do by accepting the contract of carriage and choosing to fly on the airline.

JimInOhio Oct 11, 2022 11:18 am


Originally Posted by Lux Flyer (Post 34672499)
Do we pretend the contract of carriage doesn't exist or that somehow it's not being agreed to when we purchase a ticket?

Rule 19 from United's (posted in the 2nd reply of this thread) clearly indicates the passenger is agreeing to pay the applicable fare for being returned on government order. And United isn't the only one with this language.

Delta in Rule 16b of their contract of carriage (https://www.delta.com/us/en/legal/co...f-carriage-igr)

Similarly in AA's contract of carriage (https://www.aa.com/content/images/ta...nal-tariff.pdf), rule 45b(2)

And no, that's not a mistake that the quotes are exactly the same, all the carriers use the exact same language with regards to this situation. I won't quote the United contract of carriage since it was previously posted, but yes it is the exact same language too if you don't want to look back at that post. My gut is this is standard language published by IATA and you will find it on every airline that has an international tariff.

Yes they could have a credit for the return, since this was hopefully a round trip, and that would likely be applied. But if the fare had a Saturday night stay or other minimum stay requirement, which a good majority of international round trip do unless they are unrestricted fares, that was no longer being met, the airline could come back on that front too. Basically the rule in each of them allows the airline, at their discretion, to charge the applicable fare for what is actually flown because that is what the passenger is agreeing to allow them to do by accepting the contract of carriage and choosing to fly on the airline.

Trying to extract even more money from a customer, who's already paid many thousands, in this situation is a losing proposition for any airline. It's probably why I've never personally heard of an airline actually going ahead with such a boneheaded move.

Steve M Oct 11, 2022 11:37 am


Originally Posted by JimInOhio (Post 34672521)
Trying to extract even more money from a customer, who's already paid many thousands, in this situation is a losing proposition for any airline. It's probably why I've never personally heard of an airline actually going ahead with such a boneheaded move.

In practical terms, you're probably right. I also haven't heard of a situation where the airline came after a passenger for a fare difference because, for example, a minimum stay requirement wasn't met. I'd also think it's fairly rare for the airline to try to collect a fare at all from a passenger that was denied entry but traveling on a one-way ticket. In this case, they'd certainly be returned in economy, regardless of the original class of service. However, if the passenger has a round-trip ticket, you can take it to the bank that the airline will consider the flight back to have used the return portion of the original ticket.

TokyoFoodie Oct 11, 2022 11:40 am

I have never had to apply for a visa for entering Japan. Since when was this a requirement?

jib71 Oct 11, 2022 11:44 am


Originally Posted by TokyoFoodie (Post 34672588)
I have never had to apply for a visa for entering Japan. Since when was this a requirement?

Visa waivers for all foreign passports were suspended through the pandemic. Visa waiver program restarted yesterday - October 11.

Ghoulish Oct 11, 2022 11:45 am


Originally Posted by TokyoFoodie (Post 34672588)
I have never had to apply for a visa for entering Japan. Since when was this a requirement?

During the bogus covid "reopening" with North Korea like minder requirements for tourists introduced a number of months ago.


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