Eating moderately- reservations needed?
Jan 24, 2020, 9:53 am
#31
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Jan 24, 2020, 9:57 am
#32
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Roswell, GA
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When my wife and I were in Japan... we stayed in Hilton's which fortunately offered both a free breakfast and Evening snacks and drinks... so had a decent size breakfast...
found reasonable priced light lunch's and enjoyed the hotels' evening offer.
We did spend a lot on one meal (wife wanted Kobe beef) but other then that... like others have said.. there are plenty of options, that we discovered just walking around that were not too bad, money wise
found reasonable priced light lunch's and enjoyed the hotels' evening offer.
We did spend a lot on one meal (wife wanted Kobe beef) but other then that... like others have said.. there are plenty of options, that we discovered just walking around that were not too bad, money wise
Jan 24, 2020, 9:58 am
#33
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 1,217
Jan 24, 2020, 10:22 am
#34
Join Date: Oct 2012
Programs: UA Mileage Plus, AAdvantage, Southwest, HHonors, National
Posts: 528
If you're going this route, be aware that they may "bake in" a fee in your the reservation, especially if you have to choose your course/menu at time of booking. From the top of my head, Pocket Cocierge and Tableall do this. For example you book a dinner course through a regular concierge and its 10,000 yen. Booking the same thing through Pocket Concierge may cost you 11,500-12,000 yen.
Jan 24, 2020, 10:26 am
#35
Join Date: Feb 2013
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One of the issues we had (especially traipsing around with a family of 5) is knowing how to discern one place from the next. There are just SO MANY options. Like NYC frankly. Take 10 steps in any direction and there’s a new restaurant. So I think it is definitely helpful for folks to suggest specific restaurants where they’ve had a nice, economical meal.
OP, we ate lunch shabu shabu at NABEZO SHINJUKU 3 CHOME. It was maybe $20pp. There are different options for meat and a buffet for the veggies. It’s a little hard to find bc upstairs in a nondescript office building in Shinjuku. The restaurant was not full and so I doubt one needs rez. Seemed popular for working folks on their lunch break.
OP, we ate lunch shabu shabu at NABEZO SHINJUKU 3 CHOME. It was maybe $20pp. There are different options for meat and a buffet for the veggies. It’s a little hard to find bc upstairs in a nondescript office building in Shinjuku. The restaurant was not full and so I doubt one needs rez. Seemed popular for working folks on their lunch break.
Jan 24, 2020, 10:30 am
#36
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 1,217
If you're going this route, be aware that they may "bake in" a fee in your the reservation, especially if you have to choose your course/menu at time of booking. From the top of my head, Pocket Cocierge and Tableall do this. For example you book a dinner course through a regular concierge and its 10,000 yen. Booking the same thing through Pocket Concierge may cost you 11,500-12,000 yen.
Jan 24, 2020, 12:07 pm
#37
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: WAS
Posts: 873
My diet is restricted, and my two favorite cheap go-to options are:
1) Kaiten zushi (conveyor belt sushi) - a fun, manageable DIY experience and you know exactly what you are paying per dish via color-coding.
2) Conbini (convenience store) food - In Tokyo there is a Lawson's, 7-11, or Family Mart store within a few blocks of everywhere. The sheer variety of decent-quality cheap eats is remarkable. You can easily fill up on $5-$15. When I go to Japan, I eat at least one conbini meal a day.
1) Kaiten zushi (conveyor belt sushi) - a fun, manageable DIY experience and you know exactly what you are paying per dish via color-coding.
2) Conbini (convenience store) food - In Tokyo there is a Lawson's, 7-11, or Family Mart store within a few blocks of everywhere. The sheer variety of decent-quality cheap eats is remarkable. You can easily fill up on $5-$15. When I go to Japan, I eat at least one conbini meal a day.
Jan 24, 2020, 12:25 pm
#38
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: if it's Thursday, this must be Belgium
Programs: UA 1K MM
Posts: 6,484
One thing I noticed traveling in Japan is that restaurants (especially traditional ones):
I never really figured out how to make this easier or feel at ease with that aspect.
1) They like to hide the entrances / visibility of restaurant interiors behind the curtains and solid no-window doors, and often have no windows
2) They rely a lot of Japanese text writing to identify the name, outsides, and menus
#1 I especially wonder why they haven't learned to do otherwise. But anyway this makes it difficult for a foreigner to feel like it's easy to approach and enter a restaurant you might be interested in...2) They rely a lot of Japanese text writing to identify the name, outsides, and menus
I never really figured out how to make this easier or feel at ease with that aspect.
Jan 24, 2020, 12:43 pm
#39
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: London
Posts: 18,406
One thing I noticed traveling in Japan is that restaurants (especially traditional ones):
I never really figured out how to make this easier or feel at ease with that aspect.
1) They like to hide the entrances / visibility of restaurant interiors behind the curtains and solid no-window doors, and often have no windows
2) They rely a lot of Japanese text writing to identify the name, outsides, and menus
#1 I especially wonder why they haven't learned to do otherwise. But anyway this makes it difficult for a foreigner to feel like it's easy to approach and enter a restaurant you might be interested in...2) They rely a lot of Japanese text writing to identify the name, outsides, and menus
I never really figured out how to make this easier or feel at ease with that aspect.
On the plus side, research gets easier and easier each year (not to mention my own skills improve - through mistakes as much as through success). There is more online information, the translation tools are easier to use and more powerful. I can look at a recommendation and then cross check it in Japanese (or Mandarin - some Taiwanese bloggers are awesome!). And thanks to map sites, I can easily log and keep track of all the places that interest me or rouse my curiosity. It’s great! (And it really doesn’t matter how pokey or unobvious the restaurant entrance is)
Jan 24, 2020, 2:43 pm
#40
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: if it's Thursday, this must be Belgium
Programs: UA 1K MM
Posts: 6,484
That is true, and a good observation.
On #2 I also observe that this carries over to packaged items for sale in stores. Often the boxes of are only decorated (tastefully of course) with the Japanese brush stroke handwriting graphics as the only thing on the package, and are otherwise totally unable to determine what's inside for a non-Japanese reader. Or maybe I just perceive this and wouldn't at home with the many English items we take for granted where this also happens.
Take for example, bento boxes at train stations. You would think that they would put pictures of the food on the outside, or make the boxes transparent plastic. But no, they make them opaque as if trying to wrap it as a gift, and you can have no idea what's inside unless there's an example display. Very odd. I guess it goes to the theme, "you just have to know".
On #2 I also observe that this carries over to packaged items for sale in stores. Often the boxes of are only decorated (tastefully of course) with the Japanese brush stroke handwriting graphics as the only thing on the package, and are otherwise totally unable to determine what's inside for a non-Japanese reader. Or maybe I just perceive this and wouldn't at home with the many English items we take for granted where this also happens.
Take for example, bento boxes at train stations. You would think that they would put pictures of the food on the outside, or make the boxes transparent plastic. But no, they make them opaque as if trying to wrap it as a gift, and you can have no idea what's inside unless there's an example display. Very odd. I guess it goes to the theme, "you just have to know".
Jan 24, 2020, 3:16 pm
#41
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: London
Posts: 18,406
That is true, and a good observation.
On #2 I also observe that this carries over to packaged items for sale in stores. Often the boxes of are only decorated (tastefully of course) with the Japanese brush stroke handwriting graphics as the only thing on the package, and are otherwise totally unable to determine what's inside for a non-Japanese reader. Or maybe I just perceive this and wouldn't at home with the many English items we take for granted where this also happens.
Take for example, bento boxes at train stations. You would think that they would put pictures of the food on the outside, or make the boxes transparent plastic. But no, they make them opaque as if trying to wrap it as a gift, and you can have no idea what's inside unless there's an example display. Very odd. I guess it goes to the theme, "you just have to know".
On #2 I also observe that this carries over to packaged items for sale in stores. Often the boxes of are only decorated (tastefully of course) with the Japanese brush stroke handwriting graphics as the only thing on the package, and are otherwise totally unable to determine what's inside for a non-Japanese reader. Or maybe I just perceive this and wouldn't at home with the many English items we take for granted where this also happens.
Take for example, bento boxes at train stations. You would think that they would put pictures of the food on the outside, or make the boxes transparent plastic. But no, they make them opaque as if trying to wrap it as a gift, and you can have no idea what's inside unless there's an example display. Very odd. I guess it goes to the theme, "you just have to know".
I have an example in front of me. One evening at Tokyo station I asked my daughter to choose where she wanted eat, she chose a place from Kanazawa that specialises in white shrimp (shiro ebi). There was some prawn salt on the table which she loved and we bought a bag of it. It is her absolute favourite condiment.
telephone number is (0765) 65-1381, I enter this into google and I can find the Toyama Ginsendo website, the “salt” is one of their best selling items. https://www.toyama-ginsendo.com/白えび万能調味塩/
Very helpful as we have run out and I need to re-order.
Basically, even if you don’t read or write kanji, there are work arounds.
The minimum vocabulary you need for doing “next level” research is
一二三四五六七八九〇 (1 to 9 and 0 in kanji, one stone two birds as they are the same as in Chinese)
メニュー menu
ランチ lunch
not all restaurants publish their lunch specials but review websites might show you the lunch menus in photos (these can’t be run through translation software). That’s all the Japanese you need to work out if you can afford to eat there!
Jan 24, 2020, 5:16 pm
#42
Moderator: Luxury Hotels and FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palo Alto, California,USA
Posts: 17,857
Regarding Amex concierge:
I am an Amex USA Plat and the one time I tried to arrange something in Japan through the Plat Concierge, they were utterly helpless. I strongly suggest you do not rely on the US Amex Plat concierges for ANYTHING related to Japan.
I've seen a few places (almost entirely nightclubs) with English signs saying "No foreigners," but running into this situation is very rare. I haven't encountered it once at a restaurant in all my trips. I don't keep track of how many trips I've made but definitely 50+ and likely 100+.. However, I am not the high-end sushi type where it may be the most likely.
No, to make reservations, as I don't speak Japanese, and do not want to stay up at night placing long-distance telephone calls before my trip. I thought the context was clear since Amex was referenced after "Can I just go off the street or...." and the title of the thread "Reservations needed?"
But thank you for your contribution to the discussion.
But thank you for your contribution to the discussion.
I've seen a few places (almost entirely nightclubs) with English signs saying "No foreigners," but running into this situation is very rare. I haven't encountered it once at a restaurant in all my trips. I don't keep track of how many trips I've made but definitely 50+ and likely 100+.. However, I am not the high-end sushi type where it may be the most likely.
Last edited by RichardInSF; Jan 24, 2020 at 5:24 pm
Jan 24, 2020, 5:39 pm
#43
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,512
In a thread like this I think it’s also important to point out that the best restaurants in japan are the ones you find yourself. While certainly you should do research for some nights you should also have some nights where you go hunting and just try a few places out. Remember, you don’t have to eat the whole dinner at one restaurant, it’s perfectly normal to go to an izakaya for a drink and a dish or two and then go elsewhere for your next course. And that’s not even counting 2:00am ramen.
What I’d say is learn katakana, learn some basic kanji as lap lap has described (numbers as a minimum, then some key food kanji like beef, pork etc) then take a punt. When I was by myself I used to always order a beer as I sat down as that gave me a few minutes to look at the menu and spot a few things I could read easily. Order something and then with the help of a kanji dictionary on my phone I could work out enough of the rest. Even without knowing much japanese at all the type of restaurant will tell you a lot about how the menu is laid out and therefore how to order. These days I travel with my Chinese Malaysian girlfriend and between the two of us we can read the whole menu, we just have to say no to the English menu, explain that we can read the Japanese menu but we’ll be a bit slow and they’re happy. My advice is that if they do offer an English menu then either refuse or get both, in anything except a chain or foreign focussed restaurant the English menu is typically severely redacted.
On spotting restaurants the only way you’ll get good at it is to start trying. Here it’s important to look up and down, you may think that the street has 10 restaurants on it when in reality it might have 50. The restaurants on the ground floor typically pay the highest rents and get the most random foot traffic. The restaurant on the third floor pays less rent and needs repeat customers to ensure its survival so chances are you will get better food for less. Or it’s just new, but you’ll never know until you take a punt and walk into somewhere you can’t see inside on a whim. And that’s when you get some of your greatest japan memories and something everyone should try for at least one night.
What I’d say is learn katakana, learn some basic kanji as lap lap has described (numbers as a minimum, then some key food kanji like beef, pork etc) then take a punt. When I was by myself I used to always order a beer as I sat down as that gave me a few minutes to look at the menu and spot a few things I could read easily. Order something and then with the help of a kanji dictionary on my phone I could work out enough of the rest. Even without knowing much japanese at all the type of restaurant will tell you a lot about how the menu is laid out and therefore how to order. These days I travel with my Chinese Malaysian girlfriend and between the two of us we can read the whole menu, we just have to say no to the English menu, explain that we can read the Japanese menu but we’ll be a bit slow and they’re happy. My advice is that if they do offer an English menu then either refuse or get both, in anything except a chain or foreign focussed restaurant the English menu is typically severely redacted.
On spotting restaurants the only way you’ll get good at it is to start trying. Here it’s important to look up and down, you may think that the street has 10 restaurants on it when in reality it might have 50. The restaurants on the ground floor typically pay the highest rents and get the most random foot traffic. The restaurant on the third floor pays less rent and needs repeat customers to ensure its survival so chances are you will get better food for less. Or it’s just new, but you’ll never know until you take a punt and walk into somewhere you can’t see inside on a whim. And that’s when you get some of your greatest japan memories and something everyone should try for at least one night.
Jan 24, 2020, 7:42 pm
#44
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Hilton, Hyatt House, Del Taco
Posts: 5,380
I also tend to trust bentos and things that are sold at Ecute (ekinaka), although come to think I have sometimes bought underwhelming things at Ecute.
Of course I'm not opposed to trying new places in which case I will do my research ahead of time (Tabelog, etc).
But I still get burned sometimes trying new places that have good Tabelog ratings.
Not a fan of ready-made food at konbini. Other than onigiri (rice triangles) and natto maki. Konbini bentos don't do it for me. Some of it could be in my head as I associate konbini bento with excess additives. Sometimes konbini desserts can be very good, though.
A 6-7 course crab lunch set at Kanidoraku (typically offered till 4pm or so) will cost 3000-4000yen, and I think it is a pretty amazing deal.
Jan 24, 2020, 8:33 pm
#45
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: DL PM; IHG PlatAmb; Hilton Dia; Marriott Plat; Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 7,324
Regarding Amex concierge:
I am an Amex USA Plat and the one time I tried to arrange something in Japan through the Plat Concierge, they were utterly helpless. I strongly suggest you do not rely on the US Amex Plat concierges for ANYTHING related to Japan.
I've seen a few places (almost entirely nightclubs) with English signs saying "No foreigners," but running into this situation is very rare. I haven't encountered it once at a restaurant in all my trips. I don't keep track of how many trips I've made but definitely 50+ and likely 100+.. However, I am not the high-end sushi type where it may be the most likely.
I am an Amex USA Plat and the one time I tried to arrange something in Japan through the Plat Concierge, they were utterly helpless. I strongly suggest you do not rely on the US Amex Plat concierges for ANYTHING related to Japan.
I've seen a few places (almost entirely nightclubs) with English signs saying "No foreigners," but running into this situation is very rare. I haven't encountered it once at a restaurant in all my trips. I don't keep track of how many trips I've made but definitely 50+ and likely 100+.. However, I am not the high-end sushi type where it may be the most likely.