moretimeoffguy

Presumably out can't enter the golden building of Kinkaju-ji; and likewise with other sites. However, I'd like to visit "working" temples and zen monasteries where you can experience what it's like to be inside of a functioning temple. Or shrine to see Shinto priests doing what they do.

Chion-In is both touted as one of the best places to experience a "working" temple, e.g. monks chanting and doing as monks do. However, travelers also simultaneously seem to be encouraged "not to linger" at the temple complex long because of the renovations for the 800th year anniversary. So which is it? If I visit Chion-In (late Sept this year), will I get to experience ceremonies / daily Buddhist activities.

While I love architecture, I don't just want to see exteriors--or empty interiors--of temples and shrines.

Since I'll only have 1.5 days in Kyoto, I'm hoping this "requirement" will allow me to significantly reduce the number of Must Visit places, and permit me to explore at a slower pace--perhaps devoting more time to a much more limited number of sites.

Also, while gorgeous I'm sure, my wife and I consulted and decided that neither of us are keen on exploring gardens at temples and shrines; except for the Sagano Bamboo Forest, possibly. So we can trim our Site Visit Decision Tree further, I suspect,

Finally, are there any good temples in Kyoto where I practice sitting mindfulness meditation? While I'm not much of a meditator, it might rekindle my formal practice at home if I could do the practice in a place "perfect" for it.

Some sites on our list, to be abbreviated with help from this thread are:

* Fushimi Inari (may not meet the above criteria, but is a must do up to the point where the Tori gates split, e.g. around 2 hr RT hike). Glad it's open 24x7.

* Sagano Bamboo forest (again, more a spirit of place thing and wife is willing to give it up--it was a must do for her; also, we're going to Maui after Japan, where, evidently, they have a Bamboo forest as well. At least the forest is open 24x7.

* The temple adjacent to the Bamboo forest if we'd be there anywhere

* Chion-In

* Kinkaju-ji

* The "Silver" pavillion

* Kiyomizu-dera

* Nanzen-ji

* Hanging out in Gion district during the evening; seems like there may be some interesting shrines and temples in that district that aren't on everyone's tourist map (?).

I know things are spread out; so if there are any parts of town we could cut out completely, that may he helpful.

Presently, the plan is to arrive at Kyoto Station from Tokyo at, I believe, 9:10am on a Wed. Then depart Kyoto 1:58pm on Thu. So, doesn't leave us a lot of time. Doing this so we can spend at least part of the evening (7pm to 10pm?) at TDL. The Kyoto to Tokyo train arrives at 4:40pm--figure we may be in a world of commuting hurt to get the Mahaima from there. Transport suggestions / what to expect welcome.

Any suggestions to not do Kyoto at all with this tight of a schedule will be politely ignored. I'd rather see some of Kyoto than none of it. We're staying at the Ritz Carlton Kyoto if that helps. Because once we figure out the Must Dos, we'll have to devise an efficient travel plan / sequence.

jib71

In Kyoto, you might find that staying at a temple lets you achieve most of your goals - experience temple life, meet monks, chant in the morning, do some za-zen, experience one place thoroughly rather than many things superficially:

http://content.time.com/time/travel/...049360,00.html

https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Hotels...ki-Hotels.html

If you stay at Ritz Carlton, you could still book a za-zen experience (or get the concierge to do it for you).

For your connection to the kingdom of the mouse, you will most likely change trains at Tokyo station (from the Shinkansen part of the station to the Keiyo line, which takes you to Maihama). Basically, these two are 20 minutes apart in optimal conditions (i.e. if you know the way, walk really fast, and the crowds aren't too bad). You will walk and walk and walk. And then you will say "Gee. Is it really this far?" And you will remember this post and keep on walking. Basically, just keep going. The tricky bit is at the start, when the human traffic is going in all directions, but for most of the walk it's just a straight line. Give yourself plenty of time. Stop for a coffee or something on the way. Make the journey the destination. Meditate. Keep walking.

ksandness

If you want to see a shrine that functions both as a tourist attraction and as an everyday shrine for local residents, wait till you get to Tokyo and visit Meiji Shrine. Yes, it's a tourist attraction, but the last time I visited, I saw two weddings and lots of people praying for various things.

Unlike Buddhist temples, Shinto shrines don't have resident monks or anything similar, just a priest (kannushi is the term for Shinto priest) who lives off-site and may be married with children. The miko, or shrine maidens, are paid, part-time workers, often university students. You are most likely to see the shrines functioning during their annual festivals. The interiors of shrine buildings, even little neighborhood shrines, are usually closed off.

If you're really interested in seeing a functioning Buddhist temple, I agree with the suggestion to give up your hotel reservation and try to spend the night at a temple that takes guests. (The Japanese word is shukubo. A Google search for "shukubo kyoto" will yield several options.)

If you had more time, I would recommend an overnight trip to Koya-san, but you don't have more time. Maybe next trip.

For hanging out in Gion, the real heart of the geisha district is Ponto-cho along the banks of the Kamo River.

Pickles

Sign up for Saiho-ji. They won't let you visit the garden unless you chant some sutras and do some calligraphy.

moretimeoffguy

Firstly, thanks much to all! Wife says no to foregoing our Ritz Carlton stay, and her word is final. I like the idea of having the concierge book a za-zen experience, so thanks for that.

Staying overnight at a temple would be wonderful--definitely something for a second trip to Japan if my wife is up for another. Hard to imagine not.

Happy to hear any follow-on advice given an overnight at a monastery is out. Any thoughts on the locations I cited? The only Must Do for me on the list, given what little I know presently, is the Fushimi Inari shrine walk (to the split in the trail and back).

I'd be especially grateful for any feedback on the status of Chion-In. Walking through empty temples, I'm sure, is lovely. But I want as full of an experience possible given the constraints stated. Again, for not giving up our Ritz Carlton booking, as they say here in the Southern U.S., "If momma ain't happy, *nobody* happy." (sic) :-) Must make do with things as they are.

abmj-jr

Kinkakuji and Ginkakuji (Silver Pavilion) weren't really temples to start out. They were designed and built as retirement villas for old shoguns of the Ashikaga shogunate. Later, they were dedicated as temples but are really best known for the extensive and rather beautiful gardens and grounds around them. Go to see all of that, not a "working temple."

Pretty much all of the well-known temples in Kyoto will be awash in tourists even when actively being used for prayer. Sanjsangendo is worth a visit as it is pretty unique in construction and history. The first time I went through the Long Hall, there were several folks kneeling, lighting incense and praying. The tourists just shuffled on past, trying to be quiet so as not to disturb them. The second time I went it was Coming of Age time and the girl's archery contest was in progress, which was pretty interesting.

Nishi- and Higashi- Honganji are neighboring large temples where you might find religious activities going on and they are quite near Kyoto Station. The sites that are known for particular tourist draws (Nazenji, Ryoanji, Kiyomizudera) are all "working" temples but you probably won't see that aspect due to the huge crowds there for the other things like Ryoanji's Zen rock garden or the terrace at Kiyomizudera. Frankly, the best part of visiting Kiyomizudera was the walk up to it along the streets of "Pottery Slope."

I would think that smaller, neighborhood temples might be more in line with your desires. I have found and photographed a number of weddings and other rites but they have always been in less well-known places like Nezu Temple in Tokyo.

angra

The TV show "Japanese Style Originator" (English title) had an episode on this topic, and is available on Netflix streaming. Episode 18.

evergrn

When you say where the torii gates split, you must be talking about Senbon Torii section. That's only like 5min up from the entrance to the compound. If you just want to get to where the torii paths split, you need max 30min at the place unless you're going to be taking tons of pictures. This last time we went as far up as what's called YottsunoTsuji, which is the scenic point where a lot of folks turn back (actually many visitors turn back earlier). But even with little kids in tow and going super-slow, taking pictures and checking out trinkets and everything, it was only 1.5hrs round-trip back to the compound entrance.

5khours

I used to always go to Higashi Honganji early in the morning when ever I visited Kyoto. No tourists. You can just sit on the floor of the main hall with the other worshipers and listen to the "service."　I think it's at 7am for about 45 minutes or so. Pretty low key. Quite peaceful, but a little chilly in the winter.

jib71

Die heretic!

(https://www.theguardian.com/stage/20...omedy.religion)

ksandness

Oh yes, the two Honganji--nothing special in terms of esthetics, but they are genuine working temples.

A Buddhist monk's day starts with a very early morning service, which in most sects consists of chanting sutras rather than meditation, although presumably, once they memorize the sutras over the years, reciting them puts them in a meditative state.

But if you want a visitor-friendly Zen temple, try this one:

http://shunkoin.com/direction.html

Click on the "tatami" section for their schedule.

moretimeoffguy

Briefly, thanks to all! @evergrn, sorry, I meant where the Torii paths split--evidently one of the most scenic parts of the site. I do amateur 3D photography, and the more levels of depth, the better. So, looking for the point which has the greatest density of Torii gates squeezed together in a short space. Want to get that shot(s), then move on since my time is short.

MastaHanky

If you are able, I highly recommend a visit to Otagi Nenbutsu-ji which I enjoyed far more than any of the bigger, more popular ones listed above. I wouldn't classify it as "working" (although it may be now), but the grounds are definitely the most fascinating. Very quiet too - I spent three hours there and was the only one there for almost the entire visit.

evergrn

Yeah I think we're talking about the same spot.
That's only like 5min up from the entrance.
If you just want to go there and take a bunch of pictures and are willing to skip gift shops and so forth, then you need 30min max for your entire time at Fushimi Inari grounds.

Problem is there's a lot of people down in that area because where the torii paths fork is way down near the starting point of the hike. You should maybe try to go early. I'm looking over my photos from last winter and every photo I took of that fork has a few strangers included.

moretimeoffguy

Thanks evergrn. I hope to spend more than 30 mins there, but good to know I could shoe-horn it in if needed. The people I'm more concerned about. Unfortunately my shinkansen from Tokyo doesn't arrive at Kyoto station until 9:10am on a Wed. However, since I'm staying overnight, I could hit Fushimi Inari early AM the next day. Guess it depends on transport options from the Ritz Carlton Kyoto.

How early is too early? Or rather, how late is too late re: people in photos?

We needed to make this call anyway. Since we're arriving so late on Wed, all the Top Spots will likely be crawling with people. I thought it would be efficient on Wed to immediately hop a train to Fushimi Inari; but then the photos will be spoiled. Would consider evening, but my 3D point-and-shoot takes lousy low-light photos. Really need a "twinned" SLR rig; but that's too large for traveling the way I like (packing as light as possible). Of course it could end up raining on Thu, so even that's not a Sure Thing. Nothing ever is.

What would make a good logistically logical first stop arriving at Kyoto Station on Wed @ 9:10am out of all the places mentioned in this thread? Also, what would be the second most important place to arrive early on Thu morning photography-wise (e.g. too many people spoiling the shot).