Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Destinations > Asia > Japan
Reload this Page >

Attracting More Tourists

Community
Wiki Posts
Search

Attracting More Tourists

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jul 23, 2016, 11:17 am
  #46  
Moderator: Mileage Run, InterContinental Hotels
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 5,918
What places are these tourists supposed to visit, when will they come, and where are they supposed to stay? Occupancy rates in the major tourist areas (Tokyo, Kyoto, etc) are sky high, especially during the peak season. Will these additional foreign visitors in reality just replace domestic tourists, whose numbers will falter due to demographic and purchasing power decline, or are we talking about beds for an additional 20 million people?

I've visited Japan perhaps 5 dozen times, and I've brought a total of perhaps 2-3 dozen people with me (family, friends, colleagues), and talked many more into visiting into their own. As others have pointed out, Japan has a reputation as expensive (which it can, but doesn't have to be), and difficult. Heck, look at travel guides and even hotel forums here on FT: How often have you read the advice to stay near the Yamanote line, because it goes everywhere you need to be, and everything else is too complicated?

Of course, a lot of these warnings have no basis in fact, but still: somehow, Japan makes it hard for foreign visitors. Last year, my former boss and her husband finally visited (after years of me pushing them to do so). Japan, on paper, is an ideal destination for them: They are into landscaped gardens and post-retirement started farming exotic trees. They loved the Japanese gardens, but couldn't figure out ATMs and restaurants. They hated that there's nowhere to sit and enjoy, and that you have to carry your trash around all day. On day 5, they were down to a few thousand yen and had essentially resorted to living off convenience store food. She emailed me in panic, and I explained that they had to go to the large department stores for restaurants (usually on the top floors) or snacks (basement). For whatever reason, they found regular restaurants on the streets very unwelcoming and hard to navigate. As much as they loved the gardens, they have no plans to ever return. They've told their friends about this experiences, so Japan will probably miss out on a dozen+ wealthy older Portlanders. I guess what these tourist officials should think about is: what can be done to change the story from "the gardens were amazing, but everything was so complicated" to "the gardens were amazing, you gotta see them"?

I also am reminded of one of my parents' trips to Japan. One night, they were tired, so they decided to eat at the hotel restaurant. The menu translation was funky, so somehow my dad ordered a main course that consisted of one large shrimp, served beautifully on a bed of seaweed, for 32 Euros. He must have told this story 100 times; it always causes laughter, but probably has reinforced in quite a few of his friends the idea that Japan is expensive and weird.

Beyond all these practical issues and stereotypes, there's the question of what Japan can do to funnel tourists to the dying countryside and smaller towns. Some of which are spectacularly beautiful, and some looking like they were beaten thoroughly with an ugly stick, and all fairly hard to navigate unless you're into Japan. Those places would benefit most from a tourist influx, while also keeping the hordes at bay in the more popular places. How it can be accomplished, I have no idea.
jpdx is offline  
Old Jul 23, 2016, 2:58 pm
  #47  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Boulder
Programs: AA Plat, CX Silver
Posts: 2,361
Originally Posted by jpdx
I've visited Japan perhaps 5 dozen times, and I've brought a total of perhaps 2-3 dozen people with me (family, friends, colleagues), and talked many more into visiting into their own. As others have pointed out, Japan has a reputation as expensive (which it can, but doesn't have to be), and difficult. Heck, look at travel guides and even hotel forums here on FT: How often have you read the advice to stay near the Yamanote line, because it goes everywhere you need to be, and everything else is too complicated?
I'm not sure if it's still in there but a past edition of Lonely Planet Japan encouraged visitors to ride the entire Yamanote to get a feel for Tokyo. I honestly can't think of a more boring way to spend an hour.

Even the guidebooks for Japan get the basics hopelessly wrong.

The only policy-type change I would like to see is the lifting of restrictions on solo travelers at ryokans. Finding ryokans that take singles can be tricky—there just aren't that many, though at least Rakuten lets you filter for them. I realize that single supplements aren't unique to Japan but they still make solo travel outside the big cities trickier than it needs to be, unless I stick to business hotels.
txflyer77 is offline  
Old Jul 23, 2016, 10:23 pm
  #48  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Programs: UA GS>1K>Nothing; DL DM 2MM; AS 75K>Nothing>MVP
Posts: 9,341
Originally Posted by ksandness
When I first came to Japan as a graduate student in the 1970s,
Center?
5khours is offline  
Old Jul 24, 2016, 12:46 am
  #49  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 536
Originally Posted by txflyer77
The only policy-type change I would like to see is the lifting of restrictions on solo travelers at ryokans. Finding ryokans that take singles can be tricky—there just aren't that many, though at least Rakuten lets you filter for them. I realize that single supplements aren't unique to Japan but they still make solo travel outside the big cities trickier than it needs to be, unless I stick to business hotels.
On the other hand practically per person pricing structure of business hotels is extremely solo traveller friendly compared to many other countries. It is actually one thing worth mentioning if trying to attract tourists. Of course business hotels aren't exactly luxurious but especially when traveling solo I just really need basics. And you get the basics for a very reasonable price.
Kallio is offline  
Old Jul 24, 2016, 8:24 am
  #50  
formerly known as Tad's Broiled Steaks
Shangri-La Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,412
Originally Posted by Kallio
On the other hand practically per person pricing structure of business hotels is extremely solo traveller friendly compared to many other countries. It is actually one thing worth mentioning if trying to attract tourists. Of course business hotels aren't exactly luxurious but especially when traveling solo I just really need basics. And you get the basics for a very reasonable price.
Sometimes, these local business hotels include (a carb-heavy) breakfast, which comes in handy for jet lag-induced early wake-ups.
BuildingMyBento is offline  
Old Jul 24, 2016, 9:11 am
  #51  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Boulder
Programs: AA Plat, CX Silver
Posts: 2,361
Originally Posted by Kallio
On the other hand practically per person pricing structure of business hotels is extremely solo traveller friendly compared to many other countries. It is actually one thing worth mentioning if trying to attract tourists. Of course business hotels aren't exactly luxurious but especially when traveling solo I just really need basics. And you get the basics for a very reasonable price.
Of course, which is why I mostly stay in business hotels in Japan. But when it comes to attracting tourism, it's hardly what most picture in their minds as quintessential Japan.
txflyer77 is offline  
Old Jul 24, 2016, 2:29 pm
  #52  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota,USA
Programs: UA, NW
Posts: 3,752
Originally Posted by 5khours
Center?
No, Ochanomizu Women's University.
ksandness is offline  
Old Jul 24, 2016, 3:22 pm
  #53  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 161
Originally Posted by ksandness
no Western cultural import survived unmodified. For example, Japanese baseball is not like American baseball, and Japanese fast food outlets are unlike American fast food outlets.
They pretty much are, though, with some very minor differences. For example, McDonald's in Japan doesn't offer "extra large" meals, but they do have teriyaki burgers in addition to the standard American stuff. These may be "modifications" but it's not like an American would find Japanese McDonald's unfamiliar. It is still basically the exact same restaurant with mostly the same food. You can go in there and order your #3 and it will be the same as a #3 in America. Maybe the actual number will be different.

When you think about the history of Japan, this is actually kind of an unbelievable thing. There is no cultural history of burgers or french fries in Japan. This is entirely American, yet they do it almost exactly the same as we do. And there it is, all over modern Japan. It would be like somebody opening a chain of udon restaurants all over the US, and it not only being just like the real thing, but also incredibly popular nationwide!

Ditto for baseball - fewer home runs, more small ball, but a lot of Americans play in Japan and vice versa, because it's basically the same game.

Japan is about as westernized as I hope it ever becomes, though that's probably not a wish that will come true. I admit that I probably wouldn't like it as much if it was still entirely Asian-influenced - I do like a lot of Japanese rock music (another American import), Japanese anime (influenced by Disney and other western art), and fashion (influenced by alternative western fashions, or even historical western fashions). But the more western influence there is, the less uniquely Japanese spin gets put on each import, because there's just less unique about Japan to begin with.

I guess I like some balance; my first time there, everything felt familiar but somehow totally new. The balance between western influence and "Japaneseness" was just right for me and what I was looking for in a tourist destination. With each successive visit, I feel there's less "new" or different about Japan; it feels like just going to a different region of the United States, albeit one where I can't understand much of the speech. Part of that's probably just me getting used to it, but I also feel like it's become more Americanized even in the 16 years I've been visiting. And there are definitely a lot more tourists than there were back then. (I'm one myself, so I'm not saying "I hate tourists!" But I do feel like Japan has lost more of its uniqueness in trying to attract more of them.)

I realize different people will have a different idea of the right balance between new and familiar for themselves. It's probably true that most western tourists would be happier if Japan was even more westernized. And that's not "wrong" any more than my feeling that it should have about equal balance between western and traditional influences is "right". I just personally would be sad if it gets much more westernized than it already is.
basscadet75 is offline  
Old Jul 24, 2016, 3:32 pm
  #54  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Left
Programs: FT
Posts: 7,285
Originally Posted by 5khours
Why what happened?
Too many tourists....I know. How ironic.
mkjr is offline  
Old Jul 24, 2016, 3:40 pm
  #55  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 17,460
Originally Posted by beep88
where are the hotel rooms? Or do they plan to have only group tours and get them sleep in those abandoned hotels littered outside major cities? Or drop all bnb restrictions?

70,000 a night at an APA hotel (known for having the smallest rooms among business hotel chains) in Kyoto during cherry blossom, 2 years in a row. OK
Cruise ships. The worst thing to happen to travel in the last 20 years.
You don't need hotels, you don't need restaurants. You just need thousands of jim-crack tourist shops selling junk to daytrippers.
rickg523 is offline  
Old Jul 24, 2016, 4:08 pm
  #56  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Programs: HHonors Gold, Marriott Lifetime Gold, IHG Gold, OZ*G, AA Gold, AS MVP
Posts: 1,874
My thoughts:

1. Lots of people seem to ask about getting and loading Suica/PASMO/etc with a credit card. JR East should work on an English-language Mobile Suica app compatible with more phones (because I'm pretty sure NFC is backwards-compatible with what they use) and re-enabling foreign Visa/MC support in the app.

2. I've not had major issues with trash, but that's because when I visit, I stop at convenience stores to toss things in their bins if I've still got at least half of my day ahead of me. Apparently that's now how it's supposed to work?

3. It seems that every other time I fly into KIX, I end up waiting over an hour to get through Immigration, and while I haven't entered through NRT in a while, apparently things get bad over there too. Perhaps frequent visitors should be allowed to register for the automated gates like in HKG.
jamar is offline  
Old Jul 24, 2016, 5:28 pm
  #57  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 161
Originally Posted by jamar
My thoughts:
2. I've not had major issues with trash, but that's because when I visit, I stop at convenience stores to toss things in their bins if I've still got at least half of my day ahead of me. Apparently that's now how it's supposed to work?
It's actually not, although I'm sure plenty of other people do the same thing. But ask a Japanese person and most would tell you they wouldn't do that - those trash cans are for stuff you buy at that convenience store. Your own trash you're supposed to carry around with you until you get to a trash can that's "yours", whether that's at home, work, or your hotel. Or you can of course use one of the few public trash cans. The convenience store trash can is theirs, so it's for their trash. Everybody puts their trash in their own can.

Part of this has to do with the way trash is collected in Japan, and the myriad regulations regarding it. So how you treat your trash is just another way you need to be polite to others, and not make them deal with your garbage.

This isn't why there are no public garbage cans, though; that's because of terrorism.
basscadet75 is offline  
Old Jul 24, 2016, 6:45 pm
  #58  
formerly known as Tad's Broiled Steaks
Shangri-La Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,412
Originally Posted by basscadet75
This isn't why there are no public garbage cans, though; that's because of terrorism.
Some parks have 'em. Ditto depato. But yes, it's not an eat-on-the-go country.

In 1995, way before my first visit to Japan - but shortly after the sarin attacks - I recall being amused by a Japanese tourist in Yellowstone who went to great strides to get photos of rubbish bins.
BuildingMyBento is offline  
Old Jul 24, 2016, 7:18 pm
  #59  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Beantown! (BOS)
Programs: AA PtPro (2 MM); Hilton Diamond; Hertz President Cr; DL SkyMiles; UA MileagePlus
Posts: 3,438
Originally Posted by ksandness
No, Ochanomizu Women's University.
お茶の水女子大学、お嬢様大学ではないですか。

Not everybody can be called 「お嬢様」.

I have to talk to you with proper manner. Sorry any previous correspondences was not up to you standard and may have being offensive.

失礼をしました。
AlwaysAisle is offline  
Old Jul 24, 2016, 9:05 pm
  #60  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Hilton, Hyatt House, Del Taco
Posts: 5,380
Originally Posted by basscadet75
They pretty much are, though, with some very minor differences. For example, McDonald's in Japan doesn't offer "extra large" meals, but they do have teriyaki burgers in addition to the standard American stuff. These may be "modifications" but it's not like an American would find Japanese McDonald's unfamiliar. It is still basically the exact same restaurant with mostly the same food. You can go in there and order your #3 and it will be the same as a #3 in America. Maybe the actual number will be different.

When you think about the history of Japan, this is actually kind of an unbelievable thing. There is no cultural history of burgers or french fries in Japan. This is entirely American, yet they do it almost exactly the same as we do. And there it is, all over modern Japan. It would be like somebody opening a chain of udon restaurants all over the US, and it not only being just like the real thing, but also incredibly popular nationwide!

Ditto for baseball - fewer home runs, more small ball, but a lot of Americans play in Japan and vice versa, because it's basically the same game.
I think ksandness was talking about fast food outlets in Jpn that originated there. You just don't find things like MOS Burger in American... quality is on a completely different level, it's made to order at a higher degree, bathrooms are clean, and the menu is eclectic. They don't have things like Yoshinoya and Matsuya in the US (Yoshinoya in the US has vastly different feel with different menus).

Family restaurants are completely different. Again, totally different menu with much more eclectic offerings, better service, extensive drink bars.

Depending on which brands you're talking about, yes it's pretty similar between US and Jpn. Wendy's had almost identical offerings in Jpn as in the States, and I wonder if that's the reason they failed in Jpn. McDonald's... well, a lot of things are similar, but there's more than minor differences between US and Jpn. In addition to teriyaki burger, McDonald Jpn also has had things like ebi burger and iced coffee as far back as I can remember, and they almost always have one or two limited-time items unique to Jpn (eg, ebi guratan burger, kalbi burger, etc). Plus the execution is different... in the US, you're gonna see brown semi-rotten lettuce in the burger all the time; you don't get that often in Jpn.

Baseball rules may the same, but the game atmosphere is very different and so are the concessions.


Originally Posted by basscadet75
But ask a Japanese person and most would tell you they wouldn't do that - those trash cans are for stuff you buy at that convenience store. Your own trash you're supposed to carry around with you until you get to a trash can that's "yours", whether that's at home, work, or your hotel. Or you can of course use one of the few public trash cans. The convenience store trash can is theirs, so it's for their trash. Everybody puts their trash in their own can.

Part of this has to do with the way trash is collected in Japan, and the myriad regulations regarding it. So how you treat your trash is just another way you need to be polite to others, and not make them deal with your garbage.
I agree that konbini trash cans, in theory, are for trash generated from konbini purchases. But the reality is, most of the stuff people put in the konbini trash bins has nothing to do with the konbini purchase. Yes there're some konbinis where there's a few chairs for people to sit and consume food they'd just bought. But vast majority of people buy stuff at the konbini and walk right out with it, so there's not going to be much of any immediate trash generated from konbini customers.

I myself use konbini as a trash receptacle, and so does all my family in Jpn. I don't feel bad about doing it since I'm just throwing away a few little things and I'm stopping by to make a purchase. One should not be bringing in garbage from home, and I certainly don't do that, but there're actually people who do it. If you look inside konbini garbage bins, you'll often see plastic bags filled with garbage. And it's not seldom that I see people stop into konbini just to throw away stuff and then take off without shopping. Huge disservice to the konbini, who has to not only pay for the disposal but also sort out trash.
evergrn is offline  


Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.