Pickles
How can you be so right about breakfast and so wrong about Chinese :confused:

Excellent Chinese in NYC but not worth eating in Tokyo? You must have ODed on MSG at some point.

The first sentence is not exactly true. We've traveled/dined extensively on the west coast of north America (Vancouver to Los Angeles and just about most points in between). Also in other cities in north America with good Chinese food. I'm looking forward to having some in Toronto in June (don't know the caliber of the restaurants there though - haven't been to Toronto in decades).

OTOH - the Chinese food where we live is totally awful - won't eat it at a restaurant (except for one take-out place near our house which does an acceptable job - gentlemen's C at best - and that is being generous). So I'm not holding out for China in terms of eating Chinese food. Note that the last time I recall having Chinese food outside north America was in Paris (maybe 20 years ago) - and it was as dreadful as the Chinese food at home (although a lot more expensive).

BTW - are there any good dim sum restaurants that anyone can recommend (preferably with carts to eliminate language problems)? We enjoy having lunch at good dim sum restaurants. Robyn

Especially since you are not sure you will travel to China in the future, I really think having Chinese food on this trip is something to seriously consider. Even if these restaurants are "sub-par" according to some of the cognoscenti on this forum, I am sure you will enjoy them as I do.

Also I notice you said you might eat at the hotel a few times. If so, then you really would have nothing to lose by forgoing one of those meals in favor of having Chinese food. Some of the Chinese restaurants I have recommended as well as others are a very short cab ride from FS Marunouchi. Having Chinese once on a week-long trip does not have to come at the expense of any of your important Japanese meals. I think 5khours' checklist would be an excellent plan.

I looked these up and both look promising. The second seems more "discovered" than the first. E.g.,:

http://www.andyhayler.com/show_restaurant.asp?id=1089

http://www.tinyurbankitchen.com/2011...an-harumi.html

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/838820

BTW - I enjoy reading the Tiny Urban Kitchen writings about Japan (there are numerous posts about several trips). They are written by a younger person - very non-jaded and refreshing.

Robyn

Getting back to my original list - which of these restaurants does anyone give a ^ or :td: to in the Kaiseki or contemporary Japanese categories? Any additional ideas?

Esaki (Japanese Contemporary)
Ginza Okuda (Japanese)
Hishinuma (Japanese)
Ichirin (Japanese)
Kikunoi (Japanese)
Les Creations de Narisawa (French/Japanese? Contemporary)

Note that Narisawa has a special lunch offering in 2013:

http://www.narisawa-yoshihiro.com/en/menu.html

Robyn

We'll only be having room service at the hotel perhaps a couple of nights if we're dead on our feet with jet lag.

BTW - I can understand the differing points of view people here have about non-Japanese food in Tokyo. OTOH - most of you seem to be regular travelers to Japan. Some of you may even live in Japan. And Pickles seems to have a base in China too (which may tilt his opinion in a different direction than yours).

I'm in a totally different world. I live in a place with no edible Japanese food and travel mostly to places with Japanese food that isn't so terrific (or that is extremely overpriced for what it is). Only exception was a trip to Hawaii a (long) while back - I thought the Japanese food there was really good. The last time I had sushi was at a restaurant in Los Angeles that a friend of ours took us to. It is one of the "famous" ones in Los Angeles - but I didn't think it was any great shakes (the best course was a small salad containing some terrific "Japanese" tomatoes - don't know what kind of tomatoes they were - but they were the best tomatoes I've ever had). And this will be only my fourth (and quite possibly my last) week in Japan during my whole life. Plus - I really like Japanese food - although sushi isn't at the top of my list when it comes to Japanese food (and I especially dislike "American style" rolls and similar that are loaded with things like flavored mayo that overwhelm the taste of the fish).

OTOH - although I've never been to China (and will likely never get there) - my husband and I have considerable experience with Chinese food in north America (both high and low end) - especially in places like Vancouver (we've been there maybe 5-6 times) and other cities with large communities of Chinese people and people of Chinese descent (Los Angeles/San Francisco/etc.). A lot of the Chinese food I've had is pretty good - quite probably because there are so many large ethnic Chinese communities in north America. So it's not a "must-try" cuisine for me on this trip.

FWIW - the only things I really miss when it comes to Japanese food are great bread and extravagant desserts. Which is where a French restaurant comes into play :).

One kind of restaurant I would be interested in trying (if one existed - and it doesn't seem to) is a "southern US" restaurant - "Japanese style". Because the Japanese seem to eat things like okra (we do fried - pickled - stewed - whatever) and sweet potatoes - they are wonderful at frying things (we fry everything from chicken to fish to green tomatoes) - and they have terrific seafood (fish/shrimp/crabs/etc. - we eat a lot of those things). About the only ingredient that's missing is grits (which doesn't have to be "fresh and local"). I'd love to see a Japanese take on shrimp and grits :D. Robyn

Have you been to Narisawa? They seem somewhat similar - although Narisawa is open for lunch. Robyn

Narisawa is the quintessential food-porn star-fecker restaurant. Go there if you want to be surrounded by a bunch of people from all over the world who read that Narisawa was one of the top 50 restaurants in the world according to the "Pellegrino" list, whatever that means, and just had to go.

The food is vastly over-rated, and in some instances, just plain weird. Restaurants in the same flavor, but ones I would certainly recommend over Narisawa are Ryugin, Takazawa, and Emun.

San Francisco and Vancouver have some fine Chinese restaurants, so if you've had the good stuff there, I wouldn't try to repeat the experience in Japan. You went to Chef Chin Kenichi's restaurant in Japan, and you thought it wasn't all that. Now imagine a more refined setting, much higher price point, and a more "accomplished" presentation and execution. But you'll still come out of there wondering what the hell you were thinking in going there in the first place. That pretty much describes the vast majority of high-end Chinese restaurants in Japan. It's not "authentic", it's generally tasteless, and it's the last thing I'd eat if I was in a culinary trip of Japan.

Now, if you must insist (and I sense you won't, but just in case), there are places in Japan that turn "Chinese" food into something truly different. It isn't "Chinese" food, but it is eminently edible and a new experience. In that vein, my favorite is Wakiya in Akasaka.

I've spent the last 20 years of my life shuttling between Hong Kong and Tokyo. I have yet to find a single Chinese restaurant in Japan that has some claim to authenticity that I would consider going to more than once.

Now, the Japanese do their own deal with Chinese food, and some of it is quite tasty, at many price points. But saying that what they do to Chinese food is somehow a substitute for the real deal is just daft. Places like the Hei Fung Terrace are an insult to Chinese food, especially at those price points and under a claim of authenticity that doesn't hold water.

Oooh the Japanese make some killer bread, although they tend to go for the French style stuff. So you may have a harder time finding a good schwarzbrot, but you can certainly find an excellent baguette. Places to hit include Maison Kaiser, Dalloyau, and Viron (all three "branches" of French bakeries), but there are many others.

On the "southern style", that's a bit harder, although if you must insist, there's White Smoke in Azabu Juban. I think it is terribly overpriced for what they serve, and it caters mostly to rich expats who just have to have their fix. But kind of like eating sushi in NY: "did I just pay how much for what?"

WRT Narisawa - I thought the web site was somewhat over the top. In the "this dish will remind you of being in the forest with the moss floor" kind of way. Which is common in Scandinavia these days. We ate at Frantzen Lindeberg in September - supposed to be the 12th best restaurant in the world now (it got a promotion this year). It's not even the 12th best restaurant I've ever dined at - and I missed the whole Spanish thing (was in Spain before it was a "foodie" destination - and then spent 10+ years not traveling abroad for the most part due to health issues with/deaths of elderly parents).

Not that FL is a bad restaurant by any means. Some of the dishes are really great. But others are just so-so. Sometimes it seems to me that these newer restaurants don't know how to edit their menus - and serve the 5 or 6 things they make that are their absolute best (which is why they have 20+ course tasting menus). As someone who tends to run out of steam quickly when working my way through a long tasting menu - I would much appreciate some editing ("if I had more time - I'd write a shorter letter" kind of thing).

And at FL - 80+% of the diners were from Stockholm. Stockholm wasn't - as of last year - a popular "food destination" yet. At the 2 starred Michelin restaurants at our hotel - everyone except us was from Sweden - mostly locals and Swedish dentists (there was a national dental meeting in the hotel that week :)). I'd rather be surrounded by Swedish dentists than New York "foodies" :D.

Still - the proof of the pudding is in the eating - not the website :D. When it comes to Narisawa - does anyone here have a different opinion of this restaurant?

Of the 3 restaurants you recommended - only Emun is open for lunch. I will have to try to read a little about it. Robyn

At least a dozen+ trips to Vancouver and San Francisco with good to excellent Chinese food. Also a few trips to Portland and Seattle - which also had some good Chinese food. And Los Angeles is no slouch these days either.

Have also dined a lot in New York. But - recently (like last decade) - I've found the Chinese food there inferior to that on the west coast. OTOH - I had my first dim sum ever at a pretty dumpy place in Chinatown NYC perhaps 40 years ago. This place:

http://nomwah.com/

Judging from the new website though - this place is probably now in the 21st century!

FWIW - your sense is correct. And it is not meant as an offense to anyone here who travels to Japan and enjoys some Chinese meals there. I just have a different "shopping list" on this trip. Robyn

I meant bread in restaurants - with great butter too <yum>. I'll buy chocolates for my hotel room - but not bread :). So far - I have one French restaurant on my list - Joel Robuchon. If L'Osier looks like it will reopen by September - I'll consider that as well. Just writing this is killing me. I've been on a diet since last November - and have lost 13 pounds - almost 10% of my body weight! OTOH - during our first trip to Japan - my husband and I both lost weight (unusual for a vacation). Combination of a lot fat low calorie diet and a heck of a lot of walking.

I feel competent to judge French food. French food and I go way back (to Robuchon's Jamin in Paris when it had one Michelin star - and all 3 incarnations of Senderens' restaurants). Do you or anyone else here have a favorite in Tokyo?

I looked up White Smoke. And it's not our SE United States food. It's Texas BBQ. A very distinct kind of BBQ in the US. Beef (fatty brisket the best) cooked low and slow over long brick smokers. I'm not sure how how anyone could do smokers like this in Tokyo (and didn't find any pictures). Here's some of what I had to say about Texas BBQ:

http://mouthfulsfood.com/forums/inde...art-texas-bbq/

Robyn

Now, now, deep breaths. a re-read of what I posted would seem to clarify the point for you.

To expand......

I will and do happily eat Italian food as offered in Japan but realize that it is an adaptation of what I eat when in Italy. There is nothing wrong with that. But if I were seeking Italian food that equaled that found in Italy, yes, I would be accepting sub-par food.

Chinese food adapted as it has been in Jaapn is often quite pleasing also. It is not equal in any way to the food I ate for the three years I lived in Shanghai though.

As for Pinot, that is perhaps my area of greatest expertise, yielding on the food front in large part to Pickles.

Romanée-Conti is indeed great wine and Burgundy is the hands down standard for the wine made from Pinot Noir. I do however relish the wines of the Macedon Ranges, those of Tasmania, those of Oregon, and of course the various offerings from the various AVA in CA. All except those from Burgundy are trying to be Burgundy. Bit if one accepts that other expressions of the same fruit can create wine pleasingly similar yet different, one can enjoy the permutations without believing they are replicating the original.

As for the Supermarket point, to equate the supermarkets of Japan and their product range and role in a typical shopper's life to those found in America is simply an attempt to be argumentative as it is both inaccurate and inappropriate.

Perhaps that answers your question?

Fonda has slid. I wait until I get to CA these days. Love affair with the gourmet ghetto of the Mission in the City. Tacos in HK. That I have to try!

No it doesn't. Define what you mean by an adaptation. Does this just mean it's different? Is it an adaptation if the chef chooses to make a dish differently on a random Friday night. Is it an adaptation if a chef in Firenze makes a Genovesan dish using the same recipe and ingredients. What about if an Italian chef makes the dish in Tokyo. Etc. Etc. Ultimately your argument boils down to a tautology... if it's not made in Italy, it's not Italian.

And what do you mean by "not equal in any way?" Do you mean inferior? Do you mean less good? Do you mean you personally don't like it as much?

I think you would be very hard pressed to reliably distinguish between Italian food cooked by an Italian and Italian food cooked by a skilled Japanese chef. Same for French. Same for Chinese.

This is not to say that there are not some distinctive Japanese adaptations to various cuisines, but to somehow relegate all food cooked out of it's home country (particularly in Japan) as being un-authentic and sub-par is IMHO just way off the mark.

Sorry for not being very clear in my post. But I was specifically looking for Wagyu Beef Steak, and I noticed from my Google search that Steakhouse Hama is a Teppanyaki restaurant? I was looking more for a steakhouse experience rather than the Wagyu Beef being served in Teppanyaki form.

With regards to Karubi, I find the way it is served in Japan is distinctive enough to differentiate it with the way Korean restaurants serve it. And in Korea it is known as Gahl-bi. In Japan, the Karubi is grilled and served with sesame or ponzu dipping sauces, while in Korea they are served with bean sauces. Even the cut of the beef varies to a certain extent.

I feel that perhaps the message was clear but for some unknown reason there is a desire to dog the point. OK. I will give it another stab.

Taking your questions one by one:

“Define what you mean by an adaptation”

I mean adaptation. Something based on the original that is different in execution due to individual tastes, ingredients, methods etc.

You are incorrect in assuming however that there is an argument made to the tautology you cite. There is a statement of opinion that food seeking to be identical to the original is different enough that it is either taken on its merits as an adaptation (or perhaps evolution of a dish is an easier way to look at it) or it is a sub-par version of what would be better prepared in its place of origin.


“And what do you mean by "not equal in any way?" Do you mean inferior? Do you mean less good? Do you mean you personally don't like it as much?”

I mean it is less than the original. i.e, “not equal". Does that make it less appealing to any given individual? Well I would have to poll all people to discern that. I simply state the opinion that, as mentioned in the preceding paragraph, “it is a sub-par version of what would be better prepared in its place of origin”. It is my contention that Chinese food prepared in China is in every way (except in terms of purity or quality of ingredients) superior to that sold in Japan. Just an opinion based on empirical evidence. Agree or not it is my contention.


The following two points remind me of an often held discussion about wine.

“I think you would be very hard pressed to reliably distinguish between Italian food cooked by an Italian and Italian food cooked by a skilled Japanese chef. Same for French. Same for Chinese. “


I or my peers would in many cases be able to discern a difference. IS that the rare case and not the norm? Sure it is. I would even go so far as to say try it all. Like what you like and dismiss the rest. Rely on your palate and not borders.


and

”This is not to say that there are not some distinctive Japanese adaptations to various cuisines, but to somehow relegate all food cooked out of it's home country (particularly in Japan) as being un-authentic and sub-par is IMHO just way off the mark.”

We could be discussing Champagne vs. Sparkling Wine here. The same concept applies. If it is not from Champagne it can only ever be sparkling wine. Is it sub-par? That is a value judgment. Is it authentic Champagne? No it most certainly is not. The facts are incontrovertible.

MJM. So basically, if I eat Italian food in Japan, it's either not real Italian or it's inferior to Italian food prepared in Italy?

As for Champagne, that's simply a legal definition. You can make up a definition for Italian food which defines it as food prepared in Italy and then by your definition, there is no such thing as authentic Italian food in Japan, but that doesn't tell you anything about how it tastes. (And I'm not disputing that the terroir can have an impact on taste, but I don't think it's a very useful criteria for making broad generalizations about the entirety of the cuisine of a particular county.

And I'd be curious as to what your hypothesis is for the inferior quality of food prepared in Japan when attempting to be authentic. Does this just apply to Japanese chefs or does it also apply to Italian chefs working in Japan. Perhaps it's the cooking implements. Or maybe it's the purity and quality of ingredients (oh no you already said that wasn't the problem). Maybe it's the ether.

I'm not trying to be argumentative or pedantic. I just think you're wrong. Sure the best Italian restaurant is in Italy. Maybe the 10 best are in Italy. But there are loads of Italian restaurants in Tokyo that are better than 99.9% of all restaurants in Italy.

And for one last time:

MJM. So basically, if I eat Italian food in Japan, it's either not real Italian or it's inferior to Italian food prepared in Italy?

It is substitute. No value judgment involved. Now the same question has been asked and answered a few times, let us move on. The thread is not simply for you ask again and again what this or that means.

As for Champagne, that's simply a legal definition. You can make up a definition for Italian food which defines it as food prepared in Italy and then by your definition, there is no such thing as authentic Italian food in Japan, but that doesn't tell you anything about how it tastes. (And I'm not disputing that the terroir can have an impact on taste, but I don't think it's a very useful criteria for making broad generalizations about the entirety of the cuisine of a particular county.

The argument that food of a style originating elsewhere tastes less good is not the point I have made or addressed. Your new point raised here is valid and I accept that much food which by its strictest definition is not authentic in terms of its origin elsewhere, is very very good indeed.

And I'd be curious as to what your hypothesis is for the inferior quality of food prepared in Japan when attempting to be authentic. Does this just apply to Japanese chefs or does it also apply to Italian chefs working in Japan. Perhaps it's the cooking implements. Or maybe it's the purity and quality of ingredients (oh no you already said that wasn't the problem). Maybe it's the ether.

I make no such statement. You do, unnecessarily sarcastically too. I state that sub-par is applied to trying to duplicate overseas items, not with respect to the taste of what is produced as an adaptation. In fact in many cases due to the vegetables, spices, oils, or main ingredient used I prefer the version produced here. That still does not make it more than an adaptation.

I'm not trying to be argumentative or pedantic. I just think you're wrong. Sure the best Italian restaurant is in Italy. Maybe the 10 best are in Italy. But there are loads of Italian restaurants in Tokyo that are better than 99.9% of all restaurants in Italy.

You seek not to be but have achieved being both. We are all entitled to our own value judgments and opinions. Mine happen to rather stricter in definition than yours it would seem from what I have read. Try the concept of live and let live. Not all people share your opinions or tastes. I would suggest that that very fact, when discussed without sarcasm and in a more civilized manner, makes the whole spectrum of possibilities so much fun to discuss and enjoy.

:)

I'd rather eat at the Wedholms Fisk 10 times in a row than one dinner at Narisawa.

I actually prefer Wagyu done at Teppanyaki, but if you want it cooked more like a steak, you could try the Oak Door at the Hyatt or Decanter at the American Club. If you want someplace a little cheaper you could try Beacon or Tableaux. If you want to pay through the teeth try Aragawa or Dons.

For Japanese style Korean, I almost always go to Sankoen in the Juban....mostly out of habit and the kids like it.

Good to have gotten that straightened out and to now be in complete agreement. ;)

ONLY ITALIAN FOOD IS ITALIAN!!!!!

There, we said it.

Vendome and Dieter Müller are very formal. Over all their is a change over the last years, since more and more chefs are TV-Stars. For example we had dinner at the Lorenz Adlon, an two star restaurant at the Adlon Hotel Berlin. Really good food!

Beside us sat one American Couple (over 70 I guess), who took pictures all the time. Another German couple had some special event and also took pictures. At the end they asked, if they could took the menu home. They were so happy, when the chef signed it. I feeled nearly sorry, that we had no special occasion and only wanted a good dinner;)

To compare American fine dining and German fine dining it´s really a difference. First in the US they always have to tell you their dress code. Are people really so dependent, that they don´t know what to wear? Only know it from discos in Germany, wich I didn´t visit.

OK, that poast was off topic, sorry.

P.S. We have Spargelzeit (white asparagus) at the moment - guess what we mostly eat:D

People in the US aren't "dependent". Many just tend to dress like slobs. They don't understand that although "high fashion" jeans and a "designer tee shirt" and a leather jacket can look really good on a tall thin young woman (especially if she's wearing "killer" shoes with high heels) - they make someone of my age and stature look like a refugee from a Hell's Angels outing. I carry a small back pack (one of the few things I bought in Tokyo during my first trip - it's sleek and I love it) when I'm out and about in a big city like Tokyo during warm weather. It contains a pair of light-weight slacks and some nice shoes that I can change into if we wind up in a restaurant that is "business casual".

For what it's worth - I save menus from a lot of my meals too. So - 10 or 20 years later - I can remember all the courses in a meal (when it comes to the truly memorable meals - well I often remember those without any prompts at all - especially if they're 4 or 5 course meals and not 20 course meals ;)).

I wish I was in Germany for spargelzeit now :). My husband could use some German beer too! BTW - can anyone recommend any particular brands of Japanese beer my husband can try (he loves beers - especially hoppy ones). Robyn

L'Osier had fantastic bread (and butter), they had something like 10 kinds on a tray. The dough was brought in from France and baked in the on-site ovens at Maison Kayser. Lionel Lavernhe was very proud of this bread.

Many other restaurants have excellent breads, but L'Osier memorably stood out. The Robuchon group in Tokyo has their own bakery (they even sell it to the public at stores in Roppongi Hills and Brick Square) so their bread is also notably good.

Yup - that's because people here who seem to have been to Japan a million times don't seem to be able to name a single traditional Japanese or Kaiseki restaurant that he or she likes. All most people seem to be able to do for the most part (not all the time - but a lot of the time) is diss what other people have written elsewhere - or get into fights about whether it makes sense to have Chinese food in Tokyo.

Being the OP - I was honestly looking for suggestions about Japanese restaurants - all flavors. From people who had dined in those places. Not only sushi (which seems to be most peoples' favorite but it's not mine) - or the other popular tourist destination categories of restaurants.

I know that Michelin is not necessarily on target when it comes to dining in countries like Japan. Still - it had 15 3 star open restaurants in its 2012 English edition (Araki has closed). And about 50 2 stars. And they can't all be bad (and many are probably quite good).

At this point - I'd rather go through the blogs of 20 or 30 something year olds who are discovering Japanese food and working their way through the restaurants there than listen to the fights here. Because - you know what - I used to be 20 or 30 - and I was in their shoes once (albeit not in Japan and before the internet existed). There are few things that are quite as much fun as discovering new cuisines and learning about them. I started learning when I was in my 20's (and had my first 2 nickels to rub together) - and hope I will never stop learning.

In all honesty - has no one here ever been to any of the Michelin 3 stars in Tokyo except for Ryugin - Jiro - and Saito? If any of the others has been mentioned - I've forgotten (it's a long thread). And what about the 2 stars? Robyn

No. I just like the neat way the single word encapsulates the mindlessness of check-list gourmets - on a mission to undiscerningly dine where many have been before.

You're mistaken. It's not fighting. It just looks like fighting. Kind of like kendo. We're merely engaging in the stimulating and relaxing sport of slashing the intellectually feeble arguments of other posters while at the same time trying to convince everyone through the use of clever rhetorical jabs that are own opinions are actually immutable facts.

Did you think we would actually spend time on this thread in order just to show a Japanese culinary neophyte the error of her ways. Be patient grasshopper; some morsels of grain may fall your way.

You do know that two of the Tokyo resaurants I mentioned in my reply to your original post are traditional kaiseki restaurants, as are the two others I recommended for Kyoto, right? I gave you some of my favorites, but I know many more if you would like further recommendations.

I really don't care about Michelin ratings in Japan, and neither do most of the Japanese chefs I speak with - including some whose restaurants have stars. I rely on word of mouth, and introductions from Japanese friends and from the chefs of the restaurants I frequent to find other restaurants.

Some restaurants with no stars (or fewer stars) are better than restaurants that have stars (or more stars). I think it is a mistake to focus on the number of stars any of these restaurants have, especially if one is relatively inexperienced with Japanese cuisine. People with more experience often care the least about Michelin stars.

If at all possible I would strongly recommend visiting restaurants for dinner instead of lunch in order to have the best experience. The atmosphere is different and restaurants try harder at dinner. Many fine Japanese restaurants do not serve lunch.

Btw, I am in the age group you describe.

Now I have only been here for 15 years (on FT that is) which is longer than all the mods I believe, save maybe a few, and I can assure you the "Query-Snarky reply made in jest-frustration-conversation deterioration" pattern has been repeated since day 1.

'Tis the nature of the beast. Deal with it or fold and leave the table. Plain and simple. I read more than I post as I no longer like answering the same questions ad infinitum. I find the most enjoyment in the people I have met and the periodic mental gymnastics in which we can engage here.

Now 5khours and I may have appeared to be verbally sparring, and that may be an apt description, but at the end of the day he took the high road and earned everyone's respect I think. Certainly mine. And I know for a fact we are miles apart on opinion. The beauty of it is the forum, hearkening back to ancient times where people spoke, people opined, and if it interested you, you would listen and maybe join from time to time is that we can do exactly that without risk but very likely reward.

The fact is to ask a group of unknown people on a faceless internet forum a serious question expecting only seriousness and absolute knowledge in response is a bit of a leap of faith.

I would suggest a perusal of the threads here point you, at least with specific respect to food, to other food sites to find the answers to the more specific questions you pose.

I would suggest - in all respect - that one reason FT has survived as long as it has is that most people here do not share your POV in terms of answering the same questions again and again (and perhaps even again). Or covering the same ground as it changes in very small ways (e.g., changes in FF programs).

I can't recall when I first started on serious food chat boards. It is at least 10 years - but I can't remember the exact starting point. At first there was one (maybe 2). And then X fought with Y - and the boards split. And then X fought with A and Y fought with B - and the boards split again. Etc. So - as of today - you basically have only a ghost of what existed when it came to talking about food 10+ years ago. And I am pretty much not an active participant in the places that still exist.

Anyway - if you're telling me there are better places to learn about food on the internet than FT - I agree with you. Especially after this thread. But chat boards aren't a good resource today IMO (those that are still kind of active are pretty lame IMO). And - when I ask for someone's opinion about a restaurant on the internet - it's not like I'm asking them how best to deal with a serious medical problem I have (which I'd never do). It's only a restaurant decision after all - not a matter of life or death or anything close to it. Pretty much like choosing a hotel (and FT is excellent when it comes to hotel stuff IMO)

Perhaps most of you are business travelers. Traveling the same paths on the same budgets in the same places over and over again. I can relate to that - I used to travel on business too. But some of us are leisure travelers - and have a lot more latitude when it comes to choices. We don't have to be content with doing the same thing over and over and over again - and taking out our frustrations at doing so by engaging in intellectual sparring with strangers. We're interested in exploring new things.

Like I've said - I have always been willing to help people here who want to explore best I can. I was once young - and knew nothing. And had people who helped me to learn about traveling and dining. I've learned some over the years (certainly not everything) - and feel I owe it to my mentors to pass on what I've learned from them - and what I've learned on my own and from others. It is too bad that you don't share my point of view. "See one - do one - teach one." Robyn

Not a business traveler, I am in fact a resident of Japan for the past 23 years. and of the planet for much longer than that. Nice guess though.

You opine about "most" not sharing my POV about answering the same questions again and again, but you are , simply put, wrong. The lack of experience here shows in comments such as that, but I smile and know you will hopefully gain more awareness in time. We all do eventually.

I would say it is hardly a pity I do not share your point of view of "See one - do one - teach one." In fact I am not entirely sure what is meant by that, but in any case as you know me only from here on FT I would suggest you reserve judgment and focus on your quest for food information.

Wishing you the best of luck with that, it appears you will indeed need it.

Peace. :)

<redacted>

With all due respect, the grasshopper moniker was intended entirely in humor so I apologize if you were offended. That was entirely contrary to its intention.

That said, I and others have gone to some effort to write (IMHO) very thoughtful and insightful posts in this and your other current thread which while perhaps not directly responsive to your questions were intended to help you better enjoy your culinary excursion to Japan.

Yes, and the OP has received quite a few excellent recommendations.

Recommendations for a 'special occasion' restaurant? I'm traveling to Tokyo for the first time in July as part of my 40th birthday RTW, and will be in town for my actual birthday. I have little experience/knowledge of Japanese cuisine and its varieties, but am a relatively adventurous eater and am open to new experiences. I'd like something not overly touristy, but comfortable for non-Japanese speakers. I know 'traditional', 'authentic', and 'typical' can be heavily loaded terms, but a cultural as well as high-quality/interesting food experience would be nice. Thanks in advance.

The beginning of July is still fire fly season.
Since this is a special occasion, so long as you are prepared to put in an hour of travel time to and from Shinjuku to get there (the journey itself is inexpensive), it would be very hard to beat the Ukai Toriyama at the foot of Mt Takao. You should aim to be there for dusk as fireflies are released into the grounds during the first half of July. Reservation very much advised.
http://www.ukai.co.jp/english/toriyama/

You will not go wrong with anything at Wadakura at the Palace hotel, and it will be suitable for a special occasion. Good hotel restaurants are very approachable and a good way to get an introduction to Japanese cuisine. You can have kaiseki, or eat at the excellent sushi, teppanyaki, or tempura counters.