JMN57

Nothing wrong with the Malpensa Express. I'd take it over the bus anytime and it is a quick way between central Milano & MXP. That said, if you have an early morning flight out of MXP, you have to get up extremely early to get out the door, to the train, check-in at the airport (and if it's TATL, they want you there hours before departure) and through security.

In my experience (I fly out of MXP to the States 2-3 times per year), it is infinitely more relaxing to spend the night at the Sheraton and deal with the morning departure in a leisurely manner. One time, when I was scheduled to JFK via MIA (long story), the JFK departure was delayed and at check-in, I was asked if we could switch to the JFK non-stop as they wanted to switch some people that were going to misconnect JFK for South America. Since I hadn't checked out of the Sheraton (I wait until I'm at the gate before I check out electronically), we could go back to our room to kill a couple of hours and then make our way to the flight.

rove312

I find that there are direct trains.

beltway

Seat 61 agrees: https://www.seat61.com/international...is-Switzerland

corky

Yes, I have been to Florence and Pisa. Actually I have been to Venice as well but 100 years ago and that is really the highlight of this trip for me. And Paris is my favorite city in the world and have been many times but it is a must. I am not committed to any of the lakes in particular....that's what I need suggestions for. Ease of getting there is important. Yes, I do like some museums, FOOD, shopping and just general atmosphere soaking..
thanks for all the help!

13901

The train to MXP (which I object to being called express, since it stops basically everywhere) isn't awful, but isn't the best experience either - and they've reverted to a double-decker one that is clearly designed for commuters and not travellers. If one drives out to MXP from Milan, well, it can be a bit of a hassle especially in rush hour as the ring roads are packed. From other parts of NW Italy (or even Switzerland) I'd take MXP over LIN any day of the week, as long as you don't need to go through Milan for it.

JMN57

To OP. Looking at your original post, you said you wanted to go to the lakes and then Milan before leaving. Provided that's still the gist of the idea, the order depends on which lake you visit. If you do Garda, that order makes sense (Venezia -> Verona -> Garda -> Milano -> MXP). If you do Como, what makes sense is Venezia-> Verona -> Milano -> Como -> MXP.

Relative to visiting either lake - a lot depends on what your plan is. Do you want to pick one place, relax there and soak in the atmosphere? Do you want to explore multiple places? In which case, without a car, you need to plan the places and how (ferry? bus? tour?) to get from one to the other. Personally, on that timetable, I'd keep the motion to a minimum in order to minimize the number of days where you are packing and unpacking. Spending one night in a place really taxes both days as there is packing and moving each day.

If you're OK with a tour and are interested in Garda, you could take a Garda day tour starting in Verona (and spend two nights in Verona). IME, a lot of people go to Verona for the (faux) Juliet balcony. It's cute if a bit touristy but that said the Verona centro is charming with old streets, elegant shops and good restaurants. And while the Aperol Spritz was invented in nearby Padua, it's a ritual to sit outside and have one in Verona. If you are there early enough in September, you could catch an opera at the Arena di Verona (season ends 9/9/23) which is a fabulous experience. It's funny that both Pisa and Verona are largely tourist magnets for singular items (Leaning Tower / Juliet's balcony). Between the two, at least for me, Verona is by far the more interesting town. If I had to see the tower (I've actually gone to the top), I'd see it but then quickly head to Lucca rather than spending time more time in Pisa. Pisa is an hour from our home in Italy and I pretty much only go there for the IKEA and the airport.

Ultimately, the relative days at each depend on your interests, preferences and activities you'd like to do so hopefully these ideas provide some food for thought. Have a great trip.

corky

Thank you.
I agree about both the leaning tower (I have no desire to go back there) and the Juliet balcony. I want to visit Verona for the town itself. I also agree about not wanting to pack and unpack multiple times. So from Verona--go to one of the lakes (it seems Garda is your recommendation) for 1 or 2 nights and then to Milan (I need to check transportation time to get there from Lake Garda) for 1 night and then the last night at the Milan airport and fly home in the morning.

JMN57

You mentioned food so I'll recommend some favorite places in Verona. Caffè Dante Bistrot is a place my wife and I enjoy very much. Al Pompiere is an institution. Both are (non-starred) Michelin and provide a very good meal. And I'll be forward and recommend Al Covo in Venice which, for me, is a fantastic combination of great food and comfortable setting. But, in both cases, there are plenty of alternatives that are stellar. Bon Voyage - Buon Viaggio

JMN57

If you do decide on visiting Lake Garda, the train from Verona to Peschiera del Garda is only 15 minutes or so and from there you can take a ferry to places around the lake. Exiting Garda to Milano, the train from Peschiera del Garda ranges from 1:10 to 1:30 and from Desenzano del Garda :52 to 1:30 depending on the train you catch.

I wouldn't say that Garda is "my recommendation" as both places are interesting but in slightly different ways. Given your trip, Garda is logistically more convenient, comes with less overhead and is more time efficient. That said, if Como was a bucket list location you're close by so just do it.

I hesitate to recommend any agenda as my take on what to do in Italy has evolved a lot over the years. Of course, early/first trips make it hard to resist the big 3 (Venice, Rome, Florence). They are great places but too often people just keep going back to those. They are worth re-visits as the second time can be done in a more relaxed manner but there is a lot of Italy to explore. It's really not one country but a mosaic of a 1000 little Italy's each formed in an era where many people never ventured more than 30-40 kilometers from where they were born. So each piece of the mosaic was formed with it's own idiosyncratic cuisine, language and customs. Of course, the mosaic is bound together by modern Italy, Florentine Italy being the standard language and RAI radio & TV providing a common glue. Pass through fast enough and it's too easy to miss the variation and just experience the binding. So, to me, there is visiting Italy "fast" vs "slow" - similar to slow food. I can't fault people for doing the "fast" - often it's ones only visit and there's a lot to see. But if there is one thing that I would heartedly recommend is at least one, preferably two, slow periods (3+ days in one place) when visiting Italy. And, if two, separated enough by distance so the mosaic pieces are distinctly different. After 40+ trips to Italy and owning a house there for 5+ years, the one thing that continues to amaze me is the infinity that is Italy. An infinity not of vast geographic distance but rather one where cultural, culinary and linguistic "DNA" was formed into an infinite set of patterns based on geography, weather and circumstances. It's hard to get bored in Italy even when one is experiencing la dolce far niente.

sydunipete

This is so true. My uncle and aunty come from two towns in the north of Italy less than 100Km apart. They have Italian as their common language but their dialects are totally different.

JMN57

Our house in Italy is in the most northern part of Tuscany but we're 10km from Emilia-Romagna and 12km from Liguria. The castle in our town controlled the route that goes up the Cisa pass (from the Mediterranean coast to Parma/inland Italy). So the cuisine, in addition to local dishes, shows influences of broader Tuscany, Liguria and Emilia-Romagna. Drive 100km in any direction and the cuisine varies dramatically (ignore the dishes at touristy places that never reflect the local cuisine). Our local friends are able to tell the town someone is from by differences in not only dialetto but also pronunciation of common words and phrases. And we're talking towns that are 10km apart.

Now those distinctions for someone visiting Italy for the first (and maybe only) time are essentially irrelevant. The broad and common characteristics are really what's on the table. For those of us who have wallowed into the deeper end of the Italian pond, those distinctions are essential. And, frankly, one in the deep end needs to be careful in offering advice on visiting Italy. It's too easy to project our perspective and interests but that's a terrible way to help someone. Every visitor to Italy has an idea of what they want to experience when they visit. It can range from stereotypical to esoteric, obscure to banal. Italy can make each wonderful it's just a question of matching the expectation. That said, I always hope that a visitor is surprised by something in the experience and I think that is often found in the intimateness of local Italy - idiosyncrasies that are essentially Italian but not universally so.

RatherGhastly

Oops, my bad. I had mistakenly assumed that the Geneva train would go on to Lausanne if such a service existed, and I knew the Geneva TGV in fact terminated there, so I concluded that there was no direct service to Lausanne, but in fact, there is, but takes a different route via Dijon.