maxiet

Hi All,

What's the difference between a fare break surface sector and an embedded surface sector? From what I found on Google, it allows you to create an itinerary with gaps (e.g., it allows you to combine JFK-LHR and CDG-MXP). I copied this from the fare rules on ITA:

FARE BREAK SURFACE SECTORS NOT PERMITTED AND EMBEDDED
SURFACE SECTORS PERMITTED ON THE FARE COMPONENT

Thanks

Efrem

A surface sector, as you probably know, is a part of your trip that is on land or water rather than in the air. As I understand it, the other terms mean:

An embedded surface sector is between two points in the same direction. For example, say you want to go from Chicago to Paris, with a change in New York. Your Chicago flight is ORD-LGA. Your Paris flight is JFK-CDG. LGA-JFK is an embedded surface sector. That is permitted under this fare rule.

A fare break surface sector is a surface sector at one end of your air travel or the other. (Those are fare break points, also called fare construction points.) Say you wanted to continue from CDG to Nice via the TGV, ending your journey there. That would not be permitted under this fare rule. It basically means "no surface travel before your first flight or after your last one," applied separately to each part of your total journey (e.g., outbound and return).

MSPeconomist

HUH? You get off the flight at CDG and purchase a train ticket for the TGV. How does the airline even know?

maxiet

Thank you, Efrem. Sorry for the delayed response, but this was a great explanation. I also have the same question as MSPeconomist: How would an airline know if you take a train before or after your flights?

javabytes

For the return. If you get off the plane in CDG and take the TGV south and want to start your return air trip from NCE.

JDiver

Depending on travel plans, another option is the open jaw fare, a combination of half the round trip fare for each direction in which the "open jaw" sector is shorter than either base leg. E.g. JFK-CDG + ZRH-JFK.

Efrem

The airline doesn't know or care if you buy a train ticket in France. The airline does care if you want buy a round trip from, say, Nice, but take the train (or make your own other arrangements, rent a car, whatever) from CDG to NCE. They will not let you do that. You will have to buy an open-jaw ticket, into CDG and out of NCE, probably at a higher fare. If you book CDG-NCE as part of your round trip but don't board that flight, the rest of your itinerary (your return from NCE to the States) will be canceled.

maxiet

Thanks for another clear explanation ^. Say you fly JFK-CDG, take trains to and from CDG-NCE, and fly CDG-JFK. Even if "fare break surface sectors" are permitted, how would you go about adding train tickets on the same ticket? Is there any benefit to that than buying JFK-CDG RT and buying train tickets separately? IROPS protection?

Efrem

I don't know if this is even possible, but a good travel agent can find out (if he/she doesn't already know) and tell you. I'd probably just book these as separate trips, buying a train ticket that had some protection if you miss the train because your flight arrives late.

I can't imagine a fare rule that would limit your ability to take trains while at a destination you reached by air. If there were such rules, the Heathrow Express and the western end of the Piccadilly Line wouldn't be nearly as busy as they are.

maxiet

Makes sense--just seems like a superfluous fare rule/stipulation for 99% of itineraries. Thanks.

JerryFF

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I agree with your explanation of embedded surface section but I am not sure I agree with the explanation of fare break surface sector.

I have thought of the latter as occurring in certain open jaw tickets - e.g., LGA-ORD//MCI-LGA where ORD-MCI would be the embedded fare break surface structure when a different 1-way fare basis was used for each of the two flight segments. I have run into this rule quite a bit recently ever since the legacy carriers have introduced their Basic Economy Fares. What I have found is that when you have an open jaw itinerary with a Basic Economy Fare for one segment and a "Regular" Economy fare for the other segment, the airlines will not allow you to issue both segments on the same ticket. Hence the rule "Fare Break Surface Sector Not Allowed".

maxiet

How is LGA-ORD//MCI-LGA different from an open jaw? So, wouldn't it be restricted by open jaw fare rules?

nort

Deleting duplicate post. Posted here if anyone is interested:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cath...stination.html

JerryFF

Yes, that is an open jaw. There is one fare for LGA-ORD and another fare for MCI-LGA. If both segments are on the same ticket, it is an open jaw. An embedded surface sector would be if you were flying LGA-ORD//MCI-DEN and trying to use a single fare from LGA to DEN.

Ferris Asante

Have you thought about taking f
Different mode of transportation?