Commuting between SFO and NYC for next 6 months - best carrier to get upgrades often?
Jan 6, 2015, 4:57 pm
#16
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Thanks for all your help, esp. Gardyloo with all your info.
A miles challenges seem for sure the way to go give my scenario, and AA is an interesting offer.
But having talked to both United and AA, I'm leaning toward United.
Rationale
A miles challenges seem for sure the way to go give my scenario, and AA is an interesting offer.
But having talked to both United and AA, I'm leaning toward United.
Rationale
- With United I can get to silver status with two flights between SFO and JFK through a challenge. There is no fee like there is with AA to do the challenge. And only two flights.
- Yes with silver status all I get is Econ Plus upgrades and no biz class upgrades given the restrictions on the SFO-JFK product, but it seems like that is a challenge to get on AA anyway.
- I can also use my 50K miles on voyager towards biz upgrades - 15K miles and $75 get me an upgrade on United flights. So that's 3 biz upgrades for $225 out of my pocket and my miles.
- Also like mentioned in another post, United have a lot more flights between SFO and NYC, including red eyes.
In defense of AA, however, I'd mention a couple of things.
First, AA doesn't (as yet) attach a spend requirement to its elite qualifying requirements. This is a very big deal IMO.
Second, the AA challenge would put you at Platinum, the equivalent of 1P or UA Gold. With UA at 2P you'll get a 25% mileage bonus, with Plat on AA you'll get a 100% mileage bonus. On UA you'd only be able to pick E+ seats at checkin, with AA you'd pick MCE at booking. With AA you'd get lounge access on international itineraries, nothing with UA 2P.
For charts showing the benefits by tier, look here for UA and here for AA.
Third, while AA doesn't have as many nonstops as UA, it has lots of connecting options (ORD, DFW) which go to LGA, more convenient for many people doing business in Manhattan.
In my mind, the initial benefits of AA Plat vs. UA Silver would more than outweigh the cost of the challenge, plus the almost certain advancement to EXP without the $12K spend requirement of UA to get to 1K would be worth it on its own. In North America, AA's merger with US has increased its network reach hugely, while UA's options have shrunk.
In terms of earn/burn partners, one of the things to look at is AA's ongoing close relationship with Alaska Airlines, a useful thing for those of us on the west coast.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but would urge you to do the numbers, especially on the cost per redeemable mile you'd earn, calculate your likely spend and see where that gets you with UA, and then do the same with AA.
Jan 6, 2015, 5:03 pm
#17
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 20
I certainly can't argue with the frequency issue; yes, UA has a lot more nonstops out of SFO than AA does.
In defense of AA, however, I'd mention a couple of things.
First, AA doesn't (as yet) attach a spend requirement to its elite qualifying requirements. This is a very big deal IMO.
Second, the AA challenge would put you at Platinum, the equivalent of 1P or UA Gold. With UA at 2P you'll get a 25% mileage bonus, with Plat on AA you'll get a 100% mileage bonus. On UA you'd only be able to pick E+ seats at checkin, with AA you'd pick MCE at booking. With AA you'd get lounge access on international itineraries, nothing with UA 2P.
For charts showing the benefits by tier, look here for UA and here for AA.
Third, while AA doesn't have as many nonstops as UA, it has lots of connecting options (ORD, DFW) which go to LGA, more convenient for many people doing business in Manhattan.
In my mind, the initial benefits of AA Plat vs. UA Silver would more than outweigh the cost of the challenge, plus the almost certain advancement to EXP without the $12K spend requirement of UA to get to 1K would be worth it on its own. In North America, AA's merger with US has increased its network reach hugely, while UA's options have shrunk.
In terms of earn/burn partners, one of the things to look at is AA's ongoing close relationship with Alaska Airlines, a useful thing for those of us on the west coast.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but would urge you to do the numbers, especially on the cost per redeemable mile you'd earn, calculate your likely spend and see where that gets you with UA, and then do the same with AA.
In defense of AA, however, I'd mention a couple of things.
First, AA doesn't (as yet) attach a spend requirement to its elite qualifying requirements. This is a very big deal IMO.
Second, the AA challenge would put you at Platinum, the equivalent of 1P or UA Gold. With UA at 2P you'll get a 25% mileage bonus, with Plat on AA you'll get a 100% mileage bonus. On UA you'd only be able to pick E+ seats at checkin, with AA you'd pick MCE at booking. With AA you'd get lounge access on international itineraries, nothing with UA 2P.
For charts showing the benefits by tier, look here for UA and here for AA.
Third, while AA doesn't have as many nonstops as UA, it has lots of connecting options (ORD, DFW) which go to LGA, more convenient for many people doing business in Manhattan.
In my mind, the initial benefits of AA Plat vs. UA Silver would more than outweigh the cost of the challenge, plus the almost certain advancement to EXP without the $12K spend requirement of UA to get to 1K would be worth it on its own. In North America, AA's merger with US has increased its network reach hugely, while UA's options have shrunk.
In terms of earn/burn partners, one of the things to look at is AA's ongoing close relationship with Alaska Airlines, a useful thing for those of us on the west coast.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but would urge you to do the numbers, especially on the cost per redeemable mile you'd earn, calculate your likely spend and see where that gets you with UA, and then do the same with AA.
Jan 9, 2015, 11:04 am
#18
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[*] Yes with silver status all I get is Econ Plus upgrades and no biz class upgrades given the restrictions on the SFO-JFK product, but it seems like that is a challenge to get on AA anyway.
[*]I can also use my 50K miles on voyager towards biz upgrades - 15K miles and $75 get me an upgrade on United flights. So that's 3 biz upgrades for $225 out of my pocket and my miles.
[*]I can also use my 50K miles on voyager towards biz upgrades - 15K miles and $75 get me an upgrade on United flights. So that's 3 biz upgrades for $225 out of my pocket and my miles.
Are you sure that the Silver status on UA gets you economy plus seats at time of ticketing? I was under the vague impression that you had to wait until 24 hours before the flight, or something like that, if the economy plus seats are still available at that time.
Are you sure that your SA Voyager miles get you those cheap (in terms of miles and $$) business upgrades on UA? That seems like an extraordinarily good deal that I haven't heard any USA airline offering regarding use of partners airlines miles. Could it be that the UA phone rep you were talking to was confused on this point (which by no means is unusual for UA phone reps)?
Be aware that even if you can use SA Voyager (or your gradually accumulating UA miles) for UA upgrades in theory, often the upgrades aren't available in practice unless you book months ahead (if then).
AA is generally better in terms of domestic upgrade availability.
Whatever you do, you might look into getting UA or AA-affiliated credit cards that get you bonus miles upon first spending or meeting initial spending targets. You can then apply those miles to get upgrades (again, assuming upgrade availability - which, again, AA is better for) or for other purposes (such as free domestic or international flights). Right now, for instance you can get 50K US miles (which will soon be combined with AA miles due to the merger) just for initial spending on its Barclay Bank cc and 50K miles each for initial spending of $3000 each on personal and business Citi ccs affiliated with AA. That's a total of 150K miles. Perhaps not worth the hassle for your circumstances and the miles don't post instantly (so no good for your first domestic trips), but worth considering.
Whatever you do, you might want to look into getting "Pre-check" status that will make your security checkpoint experience a lot easier. The United States has a Global Traveller program that expedites passage through Immigration AND automatically gets you pre-check status for domestic flights. If you're a South African rather than a USA passport holder, you couldn't qualify, but perhaps there is some other way of getting pre-check that you could ask airlines about.
Jan 9, 2015, 11:12 am
#19
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 20
It sounds like you've done some good research, though I'd still seriously consider AA as others have advised. Additional the matters I want to raise, without being totally up on the UA program anymore:
Are you sure that the Silver status on UA gets you economy plus seats at time of ticketing? I was under the vague impression that you had to wait until 24 hours before the flight, or something like that, if the economy plus seats are still available at that time.
Are you sure that your SA Voyager miles get you those cheap (in terms of miles and $$) business upgrades on UA? That seems like an extraordinarily good deal that I haven't heard any USA airline offering regarding use of partners airlines miles. Could it be that the UA phone rep you were talking to was confused on this point (which by no means is unusual for UA phone reps)?
Be aware that even if you can use SA Voyager (or your gradually accumulating UA miles) for UA upgrades in theory, often the upgrades aren't available in practice unless you book months ahead (if then).
AA is generally better in terms of domestic upgrade availability.
Whatever you do, you might look into getting UA or AA-affiliated credit cards that get you bonus miles upon first spending or meeting initial spending targets. You can then apply those miles to get upgrades (again, assuming upgrade availability - which, again, AA is better for) or for other purposes (such as free domestic or international flights). Right now, for instance you can get 50K US miles (which will soon be combined with AA miles due to the merger) just for initial spending on its Barclay Bank cc and 50K miles each for initial spending of $3000 each on personal and business Citi ccs affiliated with AA. That's a total of 150K miles. Perhaps not worth the hassle for your circumstances and the miles don't post instantly (so no good for your first domestic trips), but worth considering.
Whatever you do, you might want to look into getting "Pre-check" status that will make your security checkpoint experience a lot easier. The United States has a Global Traveller program that expedites passage through Immigration AND automatically gets you pre-check status for domestic flights. If you're a South African rather than a USA passport holder, you couldn't qualify, but perhaps there is some other way of getting pre-check that you could ask airlines about.
Are you sure that the Silver status on UA gets you economy plus seats at time of ticketing? I was under the vague impression that you had to wait until 24 hours before the flight, or something like that, if the economy plus seats are still available at that time.
Are you sure that your SA Voyager miles get you those cheap (in terms of miles and $$) business upgrades on UA? That seems like an extraordinarily good deal that I haven't heard any USA airline offering regarding use of partners airlines miles. Could it be that the UA phone rep you were talking to was confused on this point (which by no means is unusual for UA phone reps)?
Be aware that even if you can use SA Voyager (or your gradually accumulating UA miles) for UA upgrades in theory, often the upgrades aren't available in practice unless you book months ahead (if then).
AA is generally better in terms of domestic upgrade availability.
Whatever you do, you might look into getting UA or AA-affiliated credit cards that get you bonus miles upon first spending or meeting initial spending targets. You can then apply those miles to get upgrades (again, assuming upgrade availability - which, again, AA is better for) or for other purposes (such as free domestic or international flights). Right now, for instance you can get 50K US miles (which will soon be combined with AA miles due to the merger) just for initial spending on its Barclay Bank cc and 50K miles each for initial spending of $3000 each on personal and business Citi ccs affiliated with AA. That's a total of 150K miles. Perhaps not worth the hassle for your circumstances and the miles don't post instantly (so no good for your first domestic trips), but worth considering.
Whatever you do, you might want to look into getting "Pre-check" status that will make your security checkpoint experience a lot easier. The United States has a Global Traveller program that expedites passage through Immigration AND automatically gets you pre-check status for domestic flights. If you're a South African rather than a USA passport holder, you couldn't qualify, but perhaps there is some other way of getting pre-check that you could ask airlines about.
- Silver Status give you a chance of getting "Complimentary access to Economy Plus" if available. For silver it's only available at check-in. For Gold level and beyond, all the way to the most elite level - 1K - it's available at the time of booking. So getting to gold seems like you could get access quite easily, lots of seats in economy plus when I look at flights 1-2 weeks out. Again I'm not sure if the limit availability tho for complimentary upgrades, even for gold.
- I agree seems like a great deal that 50K of voyager. But that's what I was told. I'll call them again to confirm.
- The rep told me at the time (Tues of this week) that for a flight I have Sunday of this week, there was a seat available for upgrade. So only a data point of one, but there was availability.
- Pre-check would be awesome, I'll look more into that as it would help a great deal
- The biggest draw for UA for me is the fact they do red-eyes from SF to NYC and the extra flight times. I also like the fact I can listen to cock-pit and the product even in economy.
Jan 9, 2015, 5:40 pm
#20
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AA flies a SFO-JFK redeye every night except Fridays. And just glancing at the next few days with Expert Flyer, I could also see a surprising amount of upgrade space, both Y-J and J-F, on a number of flights. The new A321s AA uses on SFO/LAX-JFK also have full in-seat IFE.
Jan 9, 2015, 5:43 pm
#21
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 20
AA flies a SFO-JFK redeye every night except Fridays. And just glancing at the next few days with Expert Flyer, I could also see a surprising amount of upgrade space, both Y-J and J-F, on a number of flights. The new A321s AA uses on SFO/LAX-JFK also have full in-seat IFE.
Is Expert Flyer a free tool, sounds useful.
Thanks so much for that info - really makes me want to try out AA, I've already booked my first return flight in a week on united. But will seriously look at AA for the next one. I also had booked a flight from NYC to Las Vegas in via AA, which I'll now have to change to SFO - Las Vegas, maybe I can use that within a challenge.
Jan 9, 2015, 6:58 pm
#22
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 609
[Edit to add] This is an update from UA website -- Premier members who request a MileagePlus Upgrade Award on or after February 1, 2015, for a p.s. route between New York JFK and Los Angeles or San Francisco will no longer be exempt from the co-pay.
Last edited by deltame; Jan 9, 2015 at 7:14 pm
Jan 9, 2015, 7:14 pm
#23
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 20
I have no experience with SAA FF program but out of curiosity I did a quick search on SSA mileage upgrade on star alliance partner flights. It appears there is a booking class requirement (Y, B) for your UA flight in order to be eligible for mileage upgrade using SSA (voyager) miles. It's possible that you did book into Y/B class, as you were booking flights 1 or 2 weeks out. It does not hurt to clarify the rules (check and confirm with SSA) before you book a cheap deep discount fare then get caught surprised as it might not be upgradable using SSA miles. I think if you were spending native UA miles to upgrade the UA p.s. flight, there is no booking class restriction, however there is co-pay (cash, varying by booking class) in addition to miles, before you reach elite status on UA.
I found out via the UA website that my reservation in two weeks is a L reservation. So I guess looking at the cwsi . net website and it's UA chart, L is a discounted fare and won't be eligible for an upgrade?
Last edited by devrc; Jan 9, 2015 at 7:23 pm
Jan 9, 2015, 7:26 pm
#24
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 20
I just checked my other UA reservation to SF, it's a fare U, and I was told by UA a few days ago that it is eligible for upgrade with voyager points, so not sure if the Y restriction is accurate?
Jan 9, 2015, 7:34 pm
#25
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I would be very surprised if one could use partner rules for upgrades for anything but very expensive fares. In addition, the miles needed to upgrade can be almost as many as the miles required for a premium cabin award ticket, so that upgrades often are a waste of miles.
Jan 9, 2015, 7:38 pm
#26
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Join Date: Jan 2015
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I would be very surprised if one could use partner rules for upgrades for anything but very expensive fares. In addition, the miles needed to upgrade can be almost as many as the miles required for a premium cabin award ticket, so that upgrades often are a waste of miles.
15K of voyager miles would get you hardly anything in South Africa domestic flight. In fact nothing really. So it seems like it's a great and very nice way to get bumped to business and leverage Voyager miles.
Jan 9, 2015, 7:41 pm
#27
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I was told by UA a few days ago that for my U fare (discount economy) ticket in a few days, I could use 15K of my voyager miles + $75 to get an upgrade to business and there was 1 seat available to do that.
15K of voyager miles would get you hardly anything in South Africa domestic flight. In fact nothing really. So it seems like it's a great and very nice way to get bumped to business and leverage Voyager miles.
15K of voyager miles would get you hardly anything in South Africa domestic flight. In fact nothing really. So it seems like it's a great and very nice way to get bumped to business and leverage Voyager miles.
Jan 9, 2015, 7:42 pm
#28
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I was told by UA a few days ago that for my U fare (discount economy) ticket in a few days, I could use 15K of my voyager miles + $75 to get an upgrade to business and there was 1 seat available to do that.
15K of voyager miles would get you hardly anything in South Africa domestic flight. In fact nothing really. So it seems like it's a great and very nice way to get bumped to business and leverage Voyager miles.
15K of voyager miles would get you hardly anything in South Africa domestic flight. In fact nothing really. So it seems like it's a great and very nice way to get bumped to business and leverage Voyager miles.
Jan 9, 2015, 7:49 pm
#29
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 20
Sounds great, sounds different than SAA's guidelines. https://www.flysaa.com/za/en/voyager...rAlliance.html
I'll report back if I succeed in getting an upgrade, but all I can report right now is the rep ran a couple searches and told me the (U class) ticket was eligible.
Jan 9, 2015, 7:53 pm
#30
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Did you ask a representative from UA or SAA? Are you sure that he/she understood that you were looking at UA operated domestic flights (presumably UA flight numbers and ticketed on UA stock) and SAA miles?