enox5

Why is the state of India Aviation SO bad??

- Jet Airways gone bust
- Air India permanently terrible with massive debts

When will we have a decent airline with a proper offering for premium travellers? India has 1.5bn people and massive groing airline demand. The current situation is terrible and frustrating for those of us that are India based

oliver2002

Vistara is trying like others tried before. Sadly India has one of the lowest revenue per seat kilometer. Air travel competes with II tier AC train travel. Not much luxury can be provided at that revenue. You get what you are willing to pay for.

enox5

I was thinking more on the international arline side. I cannot believe that the demand isn't there

PiperAtGatesofDawn

Where is the demand?

Which country has a truly luxury airline today? Maybe a handful of east Asian countries... but that's it.

In India Vistara is your only option if your can call it luxury.

enox5

When I say luxury,I just mean an airline with a decent business class and lounges. I would say the following airlines fit the bill:

Ba. Lufthansa. Air France. Swiss. Iberia. Qatar etc. etc.

Air India is shocking in comparison. I can't believe that better isn't possible

PiperAtGatesofDawn

I strongly disagree with you on the definition of luxury... BA, LH, LX... really? Besides have you seen their domestic EU product... it's a regular economy class seat + meal that has almost zero value over Y if you have *G or OW status. And then you look at airlines like EY which have started charging for desserts & snacks in Y!

SQ, JL, AN etc. are much better examples of luxury - all very rich countries.

In India 9W was there as is UK. AI is MUCH better than BA, LH etc. on domestic routes for sure - better seats (not cleaner), generally better food and way better service than those angry old women on BA. Given the Indian market is a fraction of those markets because people prefer to take a train to flying it's amazing we have (or had) 3 very decent full service carriers.

Anish

EK and SQ have pretty solid hard products out of India.

oliver2002

Producing a quality product like SQ is simply not possible ex India unless you charge a premium (or are willing to make a loss like QR/EK/EY). AI is in the league of CA/TG/etc: its decent enough to make a decent margin. Vistara would be stupid to expand rapidly and make the same mistake(s) like 9W. But then we are talking airline business here...

One half empty B77W flying to the west (EU/US) can destroy your profits of that week. Both AI & 9W found that out in the 2010s.

Duck1981

As we can see from the recent Jet Star example currently every airline struggles with the low yield market. Whilst I don't have any confirmed market insight, my impression was that Indian domestic travellers are more price sensitive than in other markets (I guess we need to think of average incomes). The cost of maintaining an A320 won't be much cheaper than in Europe on the other hand (given the LH Technik e.g. has a workshop in Sofia, in example). So relatively high fix costs and relatively low yields will provide a very low margin limiting the possibility of big investments in the hard product.

The bottom line might (or will likely) improve once the country develops further.

Internationally it looks a bit different already - with EK providing a good to excellent product, and the likes of BA/ LH leveraging business demand from Europe to India (I was offered to pay £4200 for a J return on BA LHR to HYD - I have declined and used QR for £2,2k instead).

GUWonder

PiperAtGatesofDawn

Well it's falling everywhere... look at how awesome any of the US airlines are... AA trying to check if you'll cut your legs off so that they can pack more seats in... UA beats up and abuses customers at the first chance they get.

Ryan Air is the biggest airlines in Europe for a reason despite being No. 1 in general awfulness....

I'll be happy if AI can fix their seats and IFE for long hauls... god knows when they're going to get the approvals to do that... but I think they're a pretty decent airlines otherwise. And maybe be better at IRROPS someday but that's asking too much!

oliver2002

The Zodiac Aura Lite installed in AI's B787 and B77W does the job, the Aviointeriors Perseus seats in the B77L is pain in every way describable. I hope the babu who took a bribe to decide for that seat gets this seat every time he flies.

The Thales IFE can do more if programmed right, sadly AI needs to pay the license fee for content, and that is not happening.

enox5

I agree that BA is not good, but they still wipe the floor with AI (sadly). Intra Europe Business class is terrible for all airlines, but that doesn't bother me, as those flight are mostly sub 2 hours. Also, intra-Europe business fare are often very low.

My point is that there are no Indian airlines with a decent long haul business class. This situation is sad and we deserve better!

There is lots of demand for premium class travel out of Mumbai, Delhi and Bangalore. I don't believe that AI is the best that anyone can do.

Keyser

none of these airlines qualify as luxury....in their prime, jet & kingfisher were as good (or bad) when compared to these airlines....

enox5

I agree. But they are comparatively better than AI