Category 8 Hotel Certificates 🤔
Mar 24, 2022, 7:03 pm
#16
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
This is the best type of Globalist... someone who's putting $150k a year on their WOH card. Hyatt are selling Chase at least 150k points a year at little to no cost on Hyatt's side since the Globalist don't actually stay at Hyatts.
But this is also a super edge case, even for Flyertalk.
But this is also a super edge case, even for Flyertalk.
Also Id think that a person who stays on Rev stays ends up with F&B charges for sure parking fees if any, while from those I know who stay on Certs/pts they very rarely have any $$ charges when they checkout
Mar 25, 2022, 11:47 am
#17
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10,904
That works out good if that person who spent the 150K doesnt cash in their pts and stay using them. So you have to deduct what Hyatt pays the hotels when the person stays from what they get from Chase,its not all profit
Also Id think that a person who stays on Rev stays ends up with F&B charges for sure parking fees if any, while from those I know who stay on Certs/pts they very rarely have any $$ charges when they checkout
Also Id think that a person who stays on Rev stays ends up with F&B charges for sure parking fees if any, while from those I know who stay on Certs/pts they very rarely have any $$ charges when they checkout
Mar 25, 2022, 12:17 pm
#18
Suspended
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2020
Programs: Delta Gold Medallion, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,010
Mar 25, 2022, 12:34 pm
#19
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
a person dropping say $600+ a night isnt worried about the $3 bottle of 16dz water or what a bottle of beer will set them back. those who will use a cert or pts to avoid paying the high rates wont say hey Im saving $600+ a night so who cares what the water or beer will cost. And will do likewise if the restaurants on site charge alot more then the places down the road
Now it doesnt apply to everyone using certs/pts but Id bet you it does apply to the majority and the hotel knows it. And yes Ive been told when checking out and asking for a printed receipt, Oh Mr craz you dont need a receipt you were on an award stay and thusly most likely didnt charge anything
Mar 25, 2022, 12:38 pm
#20
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
Mar 25, 2022, 1:05 pm
#21
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10,904
very simple math, Ive yet to stay at any hotel that charged prices 0n F&B that was equal to or less then non-Hotel locations. thats why on threads about Resort props you will find numerous posts saying stock up after leaving the rental car depo by Costco or Walmart
a person dropping say $600+ a night isnt worried about the $3 bottle of 16dz water or what a bottle of beer will set them back. those who will use a cert or pts to avoid paying the high rates wont say hey Im saving $600+ a night so who cares what the water or beer will cost. And will do likewise if the restaurants on site charge alot more then the places down the road
Now it doesnt apply to everyone using certs/pts but Id bet you it does apply to the majority and the hotel knows it. And yes Ive been told when checking out and asking for a printed receipt, Oh Mr craz you dont need a receipt you were on an award stay and thusly most likely didnt charge anything
a person dropping say $600+ a night isnt worried about the $3 bottle of 16dz water or what a bottle of beer will set them back. those who will use a cert or pts to avoid paying the high rates wont say hey Im saving $600+ a night so who cares what the water or beer will cost. And will do likewise if the restaurants on site charge alot more then the places down the road
Now it doesnt apply to everyone using certs/pts but Id bet you it does apply to the majority and the hotel knows it. And yes Ive been told when checking out and asking for a printed receipt, Oh Mr craz you dont need a receipt you were on an award stay and thusly most likely didnt charge anything
Personally I treat points the same as cash; if my net redemption would be better than 2c I use points, otherwise I pay cash. I certainly don't alter my spending patterns at the hotel based on how I paid for the night.
Also, water tends to be more than $3 at $600/night hotels.
Mar 25, 2022, 2:27 pm
#22
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
Anyone who is happy to spend $600/night earns a lot of points and most likely burns them. I doubt that they stop spending when they happen to be on award night. I would assume that most people who have status have some award stays and some cash stays. There may be a few people who earn tons of points through MS or something and literally never pay for a night but there aren't enough of them to matter in the grand scheme of things. Probably fewer than 1 in 1000 globalists. Certainly not enough to change policy (at most they may decide to fire some customers at some point, like AA did in 2019, and even that's unlikely I think)
Personally I treat points the same as cash; if my net redemption would be better than 2c I use points, otherwise I pay cash. I certainly don't alter my spending patterns at the hotel based on how I paid for the night.
Also, water tends to be more than $3 at $600/night hotels.
Personally I treat points the same as cash; if my net redemption would be better than 2c I use points, otherwise I pay cash. I certainly don't alter my spending patterns at the hotel based on how I paid for the night.
Also, water tends to be more than $3 at $600/night hotels.
As to how many there are Id disagree with you and say the numbers are there, if they werent then there wouldnt be that many hotels going to an 8 from the 7. And hotels wouldnt have the need to game the system on their end since for just a couple of folks it wouldnt save them much. Since more and more hotels are playing the game from their side then it must be they are getting many folks on certs/pts that end up walking out with $0 balances after staying there
For me the way I pay depends on what the cost will be so if I will need to pay for parking on a paid stay that goes into the equation and many times means it will be an award stay, unless I know theres free street parking within say a 10 min walk,
just like an airline tkt a person putting down 100s for a last min leisure flight, would pay the $9 for the beer or liquor. Very doubtful the person on a mileage tkt will or the person paying $49
Mar 25, 2022, 2:40 pm
#23
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 4,869
very simple math, Ive yet to stay at any hotel that charged prices 0n F&B that was equal to or less then non-Hotel locations. thats why on threads about Resort props you will find numerous posts saying stock up after leaving the rental car depo by Costco or Walmart
a person dropping say $600+ a night isnt worried about the $3 bottle of 16dz water or what a bottle of beer will set them back. those who will use a cert or pts to avoid paying the high rates wont say hey Im saving $600+ a night so who cares what the water or beer will cost. And will do likewise if the restaurants on site charge alot more then the places down the road
Now it doesnt apply to everyone using certs/pts but Id bet you it does apply to the majority and the hotel knows it. And yes Ive been told when checking out and asking for a printed receipt, Oh Mr craz you dont need a receipt you were on an award stay and thusly most likely didnt charge anything
a person dropping say $600+ a night isnt worried about the $3 bottle of 16dz water or what a bottle of beer will set them back. those who will use a cert or pts to avoid paying the high rates wont say hey Im saving $600+ a night so who cares what the water or beer will cost. And will do likewise if the restaurants on site charge alot more then the places down the road
Now it doesnt apply to everyone using certs/pts but Id bet you it does apply to the majority and the hotel knows it. And yes Ive been told when checking out and asking for a printed receipt, Oh Mr craz you dont need a receipt you were on an award stay and thusly most likely didnt charge anything
People like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Bill Gates and Warren Buffet all are very money conscious and would balk at excessive price gouging.
Also for Award stays most of the time, especially at resort properties, any guest will have a bill at checkout as that’s the point of staying at a resort. Key examples properties like Andaz Papagayo, Andaz Mayakoba, GH Playa Del Carmen or PH Beaver Creek.
I consider I a true resort to be an isolated property meaning you’d stay on property or within a mile of the property.
Andaz has a good practice of stocking the mini bar for free with non-alcoholic beverages and snacks, which I feel based on my stays, allows guests to feel better about dropping $150-$200 on a meal for two which anywhere else would be 1/3 or 1/2 the cost at best.
Anyone who is happy to spend $600/night earns a lot of points and most likely burns them. I doubt that they stop spending when they happen to be on award night. I would assume that most people who have status have some award stays and some cash stays. There may be a few people who earn tons of points through MS or something and literally never pay for a night but there aren't enough of them to matter in the grand scheme of things. Probably fewer than 1 in 1000 globalists. Certainly not enough to change policy (at most they may decide to fire some customers at some point, like AA did in 2019, and even that's unlikely I think)
Personally I treat points the same as cash; if my net redemption would be better than 2c I use points, otherwise I pay cash. I certainly don't alter my spending patterns at the hotel based on how I paid for the night.
Also, water tends to be more than $3 at $600/night hotels.
Personally I treat points the same as cash; if my net redemption would be better than 2c I use points, otherwise I pay cash. I certainly don't alter my spending patterns at the hotel based on how I paid for the night.
Also, water tends to be more than $3 at $600/night hotels.
For those few who do MS to Globalist it’s a very intensive grueling process at the end you have about 120k Hyatt points which isn’t a ton and would be gone quickly. Even if they stayed at only Category 1 properties that’s 24 nights and all their points are gone. So thinking people rack up tons of points this way isn’t accurate, especially if they intend to use them at good properties which are at least Category 3 IME.
With that in mind I’d say that’s why Hyatt created this avenue and that’s why it remains (very few people do it, very little payout, and inspires loyalty without automatically giving it away as other hotels do via CC).
As mentioned above I’d more high end properties followed Andaz they’d encourage more spending, at least I believe so and they would with me. It also makes it difficult when they charge unbelievable prices ($200+ for an hour massage along with $75 a person meals for 3.5/5 quality).
My personal formula is 1.5 cents per point anything below that I pay cash anything above that I use points. I do adjust rarely depending on promos like 3x points promos on paid stays with no points rebate then it’d be 1.75 cents per point.
Parking also plays it’s role which on many occasions forces us to switch to an award stay over a paid stay.
For example - Stay at a Cat 3 property where nightly rate is $120, but charges $50 for parking pre-tax it’s $170, after tax $195. We’d love to pay the $120 and the hotel would likely end up with more revenue from the stay, but that’s the way it’s set up so we use points on those stays sadly.
Last edited by Matt4200; Mar 25, 2022 at 2:53 pm
Mar 25, 2022, 3:12 pm
#24
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
Actually, the wealthiest people tend to be the most price conscious it’s how the wealthy stay wealthy.
People like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Bill Gates and Warren Buffet all are very money conscious and would balk at excessive price gouging.
Also for Award stays most of the time, especially at resort properties, any guest will have a bill at checkout as that’s the point of staying at a resort. Key examples properties like Andaz Papagayo, Andaz Mayakoba, GH Playa Del Carmen or PH Beaver Creek.
I consider I a true resort to be an isolated property meaning you’d stay on property or within a mile of the property.
Andaz has a good practice of stocking the mini bar for free with non-alcoholic beverages and snacks, which I feel based on my stays, allows guests to feel better about dropping $150-$200 on a meal for two which anywhere else would be 1/3 or 1/2 the cost at best.
Hyatt literally created the avenue to MS to Globalist in 2017 (IIRC the year), prior to that there was no way to MS to Globalist no matter your spend on the Hyatt CC.
For those few who do MS to Globalist it’s a very intensive grueling process at the end you have about 120k Hyatt points which isn’t a ton and would be gone quickly. Even if they stayed at only Category 1 properties that’s 24 nights and all their points are gone. So thinking people rack up tons of points this way isn’t accurate, especially if they intend to use them at good properties which are at least Category 3 IME.
With that in mind I’d say that’s why Hyatt created this avenue and that’s why it remains (very few people do it, very little payout, and inspires loyalty without automatically giving it away as other hotels do via CC).
As mentioned above I’d more high end properties followed Andaz they’d encourage more spending, at least I believe so and they would with me. It also makes it difficult when they charge unbelievable prices ($200+ for an hour massage along with $75 a person meals for 3.5/5 quality).
People like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Bill Gates and Warren Buffet all are very money conscious and would balk at excessive price gouging.
Also for Award stays most of the time, especially at resort properties, any guest will have a bill at checkout as that’s the point of staying at a resort. Key examples properties like Andaz Papagayo, Andaz Mayakoba, GH Playa Del Carmen or PH Beaver Creek.
I consider I a true resort to be an isolated property meaning you’d stay on property or within a mile of the property.
Andaz has a good practice of stocking the mini bar for free with non-alcoholic beverages and snacks, which I feel based on my stays, allows guests to feel better about dropping $150-$200 on a meal for two which anywhere else would be 1/3 or 1/2 the cost at best.
Hyatt literally created the avenue to MS to Globalist in 2017 (IIRC the year), prior to that there was no way to MS to Globalist no matter your spend on the Hyatt CC.
For those few who do MS to Globalist it’s a very intensive grueling process at the end you have about 120k Hyatt points which isn’t a ton and would be gone quickly. Even if they stayed at only Category 1 properties that’s 24 nights and all their points are gone. So thinking people rack up tons of points this way isn’t accurate, especially if they intend to use them at good properties which are at least Category 3 IME.
With that in mind I’d say that’s why Hyatt created this avenue and that’s why it remains (very few people do it, very little payout, and inspires loyalty without automatically giving it away as other hotels do via CC).
As mentioned above I’d more high end properties followed Andaz they’d encourage more spending, at least I believe so and they would with me. It also makes it difficult when they charge unbelievable prices ($200+ for an hour massage along with $75 a person meals for 3.5/5 quality).
But many resorts have plenty of shops/restaurants a short drive away and arent isolated, thusly folks will end up with a $0 balance and get their needs off site, even more so if the lounge is open and supplys some type of food that can cover dinner, again Ive read many a post that says exactly that no need to worry about dinner if you get there when they start serving and if you dont have access to the lounge doubtful theyd be dropping the kind of money they would have to in order to eat on site if they have a choice. thats what gets to some of the more in demand hotels, getting little in return for the award stay and thusly why they look to game the system from their end, which I hear since after all arent we looking to game it from ours.So if we can game it why cant they
Mar 25, 2022, 3:30 pm
#25
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 4,869
I totally agree in regards to what you consider a true resort , since theres nothing nearby they got you cornered.
But many resorts have plenty of shops/restaurants a short drive away and arent isolated, thusly folks will end up with a $0 balance and get their needs off site, even more so if the lounge is open and supplys some type of food that can cover dinner, again Ive read many a post that says exactly that no need to worry about dinner if you get there when they start serving and if you dont have access to the lounge doubtful theyd be dropping the kind of money they would have to in order to eat on site if they have a choice. thats what gets to some of the more in demand hotels, getting little in return for the award stay and thusly why they look to game the system from their end, which I hear since after all arent we looking to game it from ours.So if we can game it why cant they
But many resorts have plenty of shops/restaurants a short drive away and arent isolated, thusly folks will end up with a $0 balance and get their needs off site, even more so if the lounge is open and supplys some type of food that can cover dinner, again Ive read many a post that says exactly that no need to worry about dinner if you get there when they start serving and if you dont have access to the lounge doubtful theyd be dropping the kind of money they would have to in order to eat on site if they have a choice. thats what gets to some of the more in demand hotels, getting little in return for the award stay and thusly why they look to game the system from their end, which I hear since after all arent we looking to game it from ours.So if we can game it why cant they
Take Manchester Grand Hyatt for example -
An excellent property, easily in my top 5, but their dining options are horrible, not only that they’re literally in downtown San Diego so there’s hundreds of amazing dining options within a 5 minute walk (not even drive).
They “game the system” I believe on parking where the vast majority of guests end up paying $40-$50+ in parking fees.
If they had solid dining options for a reasonable price on property I’d definitely give them a try, but at a property where there’s so many dining options nearby the property really has to stand out in quality and have a reasonable price. That’s not just my thinking that’s everyone.
My thought would be for the property to either lease the space for a restaurant or open their own that has such good quality that even non-hotel guests would want to eat there and be willing to travel for it.
Mar 25, 2022, 6:28 pm
#26
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10,904
I think the the resort vs non resort thing is spot on. If I go to a resort and spend the day at the pool I'm buying a few drinks. And when I get hungry in the middle of the day I'm getting some food from the bar. There may be a cheaper food 10 minutes away but I'm not going to leave the pool, get dressed, drive off property, grab a burger, and drive back. That is just a huge waste of very limited vacation time to save a few of dollars.
On the other hand if I'm staying at a hotel in Manhattan or Tokyo or Seoul I'm not charging much to my room. I go to these cities to go out, not to stay cooped up in the hotel. I might spend a bit at the hotel bar if they have a good one, or have one meal in a restaurant, but really I want to go explore the city and eat and drink at the local establishments. That's the point of the trip.
Whether I paid with points or cash could not be less relevant.
On the other hand if I'm staying at a hotel in Manhattan or Tokyo or Seoul I'm not charging much to my room. I go to these cities to go out, not to stay cooped up in the hotel. I might spend a bit at the hotel bar if they have a good one, or have one meal in a restaurant, but really I want to go explore the city and eat and drink at the local establishments. That's the point of the trip.
Whether I paid with points or cash could not be less relevant.
Mar 25, 2022, 6:47 pm
#27
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 4,869
I think the the resort vs non resort thing is spot on. If I go to a resort and spend the day at the pool I'm buying a few drinks. And when I get hungry in the middle of the day I'm getting some food from the bar. There may be a cheaper food 10 minutes away but I'm not going to leave the pool, get dressed, drive off property, grab a burger, and drive back. That is just a huge waste of very limited vacation time to save a few of dollars.
On the other hand if I'm staying at a hotel in Manhattan or Tokyo or Seoul I'm not charging much to my room. I go to these cities to go out, not to stay cooped up in the hotel. I might spend a bit at the hotel bar if they have a good one, or have one meal in a restaurant, but really I want to go explore the city and eat and drink at the local establishments. That's the point of the trip.
Whether I paid with points or cash could not be less relevant.
On the other hand if I'm staying at a hotel in Manhattan or Tokyo or Seoul I'm not charging much to my room. I go to these cities to go out, not to stay cooped up in the hotel. I might spend a bit at the hotel bar if they have a good one, or have one meal in a restaurant, but really I want to go explore the city and eat and drink at the local establishments. That's the point of the trip.
Whether I paid with points or cash could not be less relevant.
Cities known for either food or tourism guests are going to want to leave the property and explore the food, the attractions, and the cultural experiences.
Major examples would be - Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, New York, Chicago, Dallas, Miami, Orlando, Seattle, Portland, Seoul, Tokyo, Bejing, Paris, Las Vegas.
Whereas examples of resorts would be - Miraval (Austin, Arizona and Berkshires), Playa Del Carmen, Mayakoba, Papagayo, Maui, Beaver Creek, Kuaui, Caribbean, and so on.
Other properties that are in resort areas but fail at even attempting to spur on property spending no one should feel sorry for at all. Properties like Hyatt Centric Waikiki it’s centered in a major resort area only a few minutes walking to the beach yet they have no restaurant, not even a gift/snack shop I feel like properties like this come with the expectation that you’ll do everything off property. Which is fine, just don’t be disappointed or complain when that’s what people do.
Apr 5, 2022, 3:56 pm
#30
Moderator: Alaska Mileage Plan
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,318