Question on HHonors Value

Old Aug 1, 19, 6:54 pm
  #1  
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Question on HHonors Value

Hello,
As per TPG, HHPoints value is 0.6 Cents per point. I still wonder where exactly TPG values them at 0.6 cents, when i try to book any Hilton Hotel with points, I don't find the valuation @0.6 cents.
For example,
I'm looking for a reservation in Miami Beach for a weekend. I see 80000 Points per Night, which is $480 as per TPG Valuation. But If i choose dollar, it's much cheaper I'm getting it at $250. And its not just this hotel, I see it for almost every Hotel that i stay for work.
So where exactly I get 0.6 cents per HHonors points?
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Old Aug 1, 19, 7:20 pm
  #2  
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TPG seems to value HH points more generously than most people. That said, I have been able to get .6 (or better) at times with or without 5th night free.
See these threads for some discussion of "value":
Confused by Hilton point value
Is $0.005 (i.e., a half-penny) per point really a good redemption value?
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hilton-hilton-honors/1949204-deciding-between-using-points-vs-cash.html
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hilton-hilton-honors/1681375-post-your-wins-best-points-value-you-ve-ever-gotten.html
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Old Aug 1, 19, 11:21 pm
  #3  
 
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Since Hilton moved away from fixed category points rates over a year ago I've observed that hotels routinely offer awards nights at a multiple of 0.4 to 0.45cpp times the flexible cash rate. Scoring a better redemption value than that happens only in the vanishingly few cases where a hotel is at its top points cost while the cash rate has gone through the roof due to some special event.
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Old Aug 2, 19, 12:07 am
  #4  
 
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Originally Posted by darthbimmer View Post
Since Hilton moved away from fixed category points rates over a year ago I've observed that hotels routinely offer awards nights at a multiple of 0.4 to 0.45cpp times the flexible cash rate. Scoring a better redemption value than that happens only in the vanishingly few cases where a hotel is at its top points cost while the cash rate has gone through the roof due to some special event.
Pretty terrible on mid level redemption award stays now with $109 rooms running 40,000 points in boring suburbs and even some rural locations where comparable IHG properties are going around 20,000 points and comparable Marriott properties are going at about 30,000 points.

At this point I take HH more as a "discount" program and throw points at a night here and there as part of a multi-night stay, but what they have done with the point values makes it so you really do not want to save up many of these points anymore.
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Old Aug 2, 19, 2:12 am
  #5  
 
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I find points most valuable at the highest end properties. On many occasions i have used HH points at 96,000 per night for 10 nights. So essentially' 8 nights or 760,000 points for 10 nights after two 5th night frees on rooms that were over $1000 per night at Grand Wailea. So 10 nights for 760,000 points on rooms that would have cost over $10,000 cash. Solid value and always upgraded
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Old Aug 2, 19, 11:18 am
  #6  
 
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Originally Posted by vreddy View Post
Hello,
As per TPG, HHPoints value is 0.6 Cents per point. I still wonder where exactly TPG values them at 0.6 cents, when i try to book any Hilton Hotel with points, I don't find the valuation @0.6 cents.
For example,
I'm looking for a reservation in Miami Beach for a weekend. I see 80000 Points per Night, which is $480 as per TPG Valuation. But If i choose dollar, it's much cheaper I'm getting it at $250. And its not just this hotel, I see it for almost every Hotel that i stay for work.
So where exactly I get 0.6 cents per HHonors points?
Just a note, he is valuing the points as a whole, not on an individual property basis. So he is taking into account things like being able to book a fifth night free and waived resort fees on award stays. These thing may never come into play for you. That said, .6 still seems high to me.
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Old Aug 2, 19, 11:34 am
  #7  
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Originally Posted by Cledaybuck View Post
Just a note, he is valuing the points as a whole, not on an individual property basis. So he is taking into account things like being able to book a fifth night free and waived resort fees on award stays. These thing may never come into play for you. That said, .6 still seems high to me.
Anybody can use whatever method to value as they wish. That said, I am not convinced TPG is being internally consistent: Hilton points are worth 0.6 and Marriott points are worth 0.8, really? If I could give up 100k Hilton points in return for 75k Marriott points I would do it in a heartbeat. Does it mean TPG would be ambivalent?

So regardless of how 5th night free, resort fees, etc. are all considered, I agree with @Cledaybuck that 0.6 is too high, at least on a relative basis versus other valuations shown. TPG did not change the 0.6 after the recent devaluation so it's been at 0.6 for at least one year...
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Old Aug 2, 19, 11:47 am
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Originally Posted by escape4 View Post
Anybody can use whatever method to value as they wish. That said, I am not convinced TPG is being internally consistent: Hilton points are worth 0.6 and Marriott points are worth 0.8, really? If I could give up 100k Hilton points in return for 75k Marriott points I would do it in a heartbeat. Does it mean TPG would be ambivalent?

So regardless of how 5th night free, resort fees, etc. are all considered, I agree with @Cledaybuck that 0.6 is too high, at least on a relative basis versus other valuations shown. TPG did not change the 0.6 after the recent devaluation so it's been at 0.6 for at least one year...
.5 and .8 works better for me.
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Old Aug 2, 19, 12:01 pm
  #9  
 
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It's fairly easy to find redemption values greater than 0.6 cpp with Hilton when you stay at higher end properties. A quick check of the Casa Marina for Oct 26 to 31 shows the cheapest room all in at $2431 for 5 nights (this is a fairly typical price for the property - not out of the ordinary). You can also have that room for 360,000 points for a value of 0.68 cpp.

I agree that the average value of HH points across ALL properties is lower than 0.6 cpp, but if you're not getting at least 0.5 cpp you're not using them right.
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Old Aug 2, 19, 12:25 pm
  #10  
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Originally Posted by PHLGovFlyer View Post
It's fairly easy to find redemption values greater than 0.6 cpp with Hilton when you stay at higher end properties. A quick check of the Casa Marina for Oct 26 to 31 shows the cheapest room all in at $2431 for 5 nights (this is a fairly typical price for the property - not out of the ordinary). You can also have that room for 360,000 points for a value of 0.68 cpp.

I agree that the average value of HH points across ALL properties is lower than 0.6 cpp, but if you're not getting at least 0.5 cpp you're not using them right.
I agree that you can find above 0.6 at high end properties, but the problem is that Hilton does not have that many of them. I am burning a ton in Bora Bora and Maldives but I find that it's still not enough. Some places I want to book, the cash rate will be somewhat low so I won't use points, or points redemptions won't be available so I am forced to pay cash, or there will be a better competitior than a Hilton chain hotel so I avoid Hilton altogether. Whatever the reason, yes I can find value above 0.6 once in a while, heck I can even find above 1.0, but if I wanted to aggressively decrease my point balance I would not say it's always easy to find above 0.6 even in high end properties.

Regarding Casa Marina, in fairness I am seeing lots of days below $300 per night in October, and in September it can also be in the low to mid 200s. So 90k pts per night does not sound like a screaming deal except if stars align such as the specific time slot Oct 26-31 that you referred to where rates are on the high side AND standard point redemptions are still available, both at the same time.

Not that it makes your argument invalid however, just an observation about Casa Marina.
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Old Aug 2, 19, 12:36 pm
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Personally, i find point redemptions valued well over the .6 cents. Admittedly most of our travel is at peak times such as holidays and we normally book a 8+ months out which is crucial with the dynamic pricing. For one example, This past new year we booked 5 nights in Queenstown New Zealand (doubletree) at 30,000/nt + the 5th night free. The nightly rate was nearly $400usd/nt and we were only in 24,000 points a night. We have similar experiences each major holiday and all over the world. Just book a year in advance 😉
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Old Aug 2, 19, 1:21 pm
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Originally Posted by PHLGovFlyer View Post
It's fairly easy to find redemption values greater than 0.6 cpp with Hilton when you stay at higher end properties. A quick check of the Casa Marina for Oct 26 to 31 shows the cheapest room all in at $2431 for 5 nights (this is a fairly typical price for the property - not out of the ordinary). You can also have that room for 360,000 points for a value of 0.68 cpp.
Additional problem is many people are miscalculating.
Case in point: Your incorrect example.

$2431 = 5 nights and 44points/ $. (14aspire+20base+quarterly 10)
$2431 = 5 nights and ~101200 points.
$2431 - 101200 points = 5 nights.

5 nights = 360,000 points.

$2431 - 101200 = 360000 points.
461200 points = $2431.
1 point = $0.00527.
Your example is NOT actually anywhere near 6.8cpp. It's under 5.3cpp.

And this is using an example at an expensive place many would never stay on cash, using a perfect multiple of 5 nights. All of the "best case scenario" attributes.

There are also still a few properties with lower caps that haven't blocked out standard rewards 365 days of the year yet than can be better values at peak occupancy/ cash rates like Kruxed example. There are some that block out points reservations for standard rooms at standard award rates all the time, despite this supposedly being against policy.

Last edited by B3nder; Aug 2, 19 at 1:27 pm
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Old Aug 3, 19, 12:44 am
  #13  
 
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Originally Posted by vreddy View Post
Hello,
As per TPG, HHPoints value is 0.6 Cents per point. I still wonder where exactly TPG values them at 0.6 cents, when i try to book any Hilton Hotel with points, I don't find the valuation @0.6 cents.
For example,
I'm looking for a reservation in Miami Beach for a weekend. I see 80000 Points per Night, which is $480 as per TPG Valuation. But If i choose dollar, it's much cheaper I'm getting it at $250. And its not just this hotel, I see it for almost every Hotel that i stay for work.
So where exactly I get 0.6 cents per HHonors points?
TPG isn't valuing specific hotels. (your example is fairly standard)

TPG is valuing the commissions that the various Hilton credit cards pay him. (well.. whatever corporate entity that is behind TPG) A "proper" valuation of 0.4 cents doesn't make the credit cards attractive enough on an earn-and-burn or sign-up bonus basis.
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Old Aug 3, 19, 6:11 am
  #14  
 
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I almost never get >.5 cpp with the Hilton chains available when my destination is set. I have gotten > 1 cpp however when I'm on long road trips through the Southeast and wherever I stop and spend the night is flexible. There are still 10000 point per night Hampton Inns in the Southeast and Southwest. I know this type of travel isn't applicable for many here, but it allows for max point redemptions anyway.
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Old Aug 3, 19, 9:05 am
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Originally Posted by escape4 View Post
Regarding Casa Marina, in fairness I am seeing lots of days below $300 per night in October, and in September it can also be in the low to mid 200s. So 90k pts per night does not sound like a screaming deal except if stars align such as the specific time slot Oct 26-31 that you referred to where rates are on the high side AND standard point redemptions are still available, both at the same time.

Not that it makes your argument invalid however, just an observation about Casa Marina.
True. However, almost every high points cost property has a low season and a peak season. It's really all about the cpp value of the stay when you stay.

Originally Posted by B3nder View Post
Additional problem is many people are miscalculating.
Case in point: Your incorrect example.

$2431 = 5 nights and 44points/ $. (14aspire+20base+quarterly 10)
$2431 = 5 nights and ~101200 points.
$2431 - 101200 points = 5 nights.

5 nights = 360,000 points.

$2431 - 101200 = 360000 points.
461200 points = $2431.
1 point = $0.00527.
Your example is NOT actually anywhere near 6.8cpp. It's under 5.3cpp.

And this is using an example at an expensive place many would never stay on cash, using a perfect multiple of 5 nights. All of the "best case scenario" attributes.
Of course it's a "best case" scenario. Why wouldn't someone desire to maximize (best case) the value of their HH points?

Oh, and your math is incorrect as well. The $2431 includes tax which doesn't earn points. And not everyone has the Aspire Card. And Hilton doesn't always run 10ppd promos. And the Casa Marina frequently prices higher than my example while still offering rooms for points. So I guess your example is best case...
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