Hilton Improves; Others Stagnate or Deteriorate (Marriott/Starwood, Hyatt, Fairmont)
Dec 12, 2018, 4:27 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Homeless
Programs: Hyatt Glob; Hilton Dia; Marriott AMB; Accor Dia; IHG Dia Amb; GHA Tit
Posts: 4,838
Hilton Improves; Others Stagnate or Deteriorate (Marriott/Starwood, Hyatt, Fairmont)
I used to have Hilton as my #1 program but gradually over the years I shifted nights to Starwood, Hyatt, and Fairmont. However it’s clear that recently Hilton has made improvements whereas others either have not, or have made cuts, and as 2018 comes to a close it’s a good time for me to reassess where I get the most bang for the buck. There are way too many indicators for me to deny that Hilton has recovered some lost ground.
Earn & Burn
I started the year with over 2.5m points and I wanted to go through a decent chunk of my stash in 2018. In January-April all my stays were booked with points. However I did not run through my points balance as much as expected because of the promo in January-April of 2k pts per stay, and 10k pts bonus for each 5 stays. This effectively meant a 4k pt discount for each 1 night stay, so many stays at 5k-25k pts actually ended up costing me only 1k-21k. Then I had planned the big hit for my points balance in the autumn: 16 nights at Conrad Bora Bora, all with points. Well actually it turned out that one of those nights was a free weekend credit card night, and for the other 15 I only paid 12 of them thanks to 5thnight free benefit. For the rest of the year it was double points May – December, and even triple points in July and triple points Sep-Dec for resorts and luxury hotels. Complain all you want about points devaluation at Hilton, but the earning rates are attractive given the non-stop promos. Compare that with Hyatt who has been fairly blah in terms of promos, and Marriott which has cut promos far below what Starwood used to offer, and now we end up in a situation where Hilton’s earn and burn might be the best - I have not done the math yet but that’s what I suspect. That’s not even counting the stackable promo of 2,500 Lufthansa miles for each paid stay in August – October which made many of my one-night stays very cheap.
Then there is the credit card. I upgraded from Amex Surpass to Aspire and got a 100k pt welcome bonus. With Starwood if I upgrade to their top Amex card, no sign-up bonus for me, so I stay put. Then I got 40k pt targeted bonus for Amex Hilton spend late in 2018, not mentioning the generous 14 pts earned per dollar spent at Hilton hotels, while Marriott cut the points on every spending on the Amex SPG from 3 to 2 so I have stopped using it. That’s on top of the free weekend night (as mentioned above) which you can use at the most expensive properties – this is a significant benefit.
On top of this is the new milestone bonus of 10k points each 10 nights starting at 40 nights, and 30k points more at 60 nights.
All these little things add up. Despite using points for all my Hilton stays Jan-Apr, and despite booking 16 nights at one of the most expensive hotels in the entire Hilton portfolio, and a handful of other points redemptions the rest of the year, amazingly I end up year 2018 with as many points as I started. My only possible conclusion is that because of the promos and the new Aspire credit card, Hilton’s earn and burn has recovered. Of course like everybody else, I do not like the secretive Hilton devaluations for some properties, and not having a points chart of each hotel like Hyatt and Marriott have is irritating, but bottom line is if you are not limited geographically where you can use points, there are still some pockets where value is quite good with Hilton.
Best Rate Guarantee
Hyatt is just plain bad, Starwood used to be good but Marriott has changed the program and now it’s ok but not great. Hilton used to be frustrating but I have had a recent string of successes, even on pre-paid rates where I rolled the dice but still got approvals. I do not know if I have more success recently because I know better how to submit claims or if it’s because Hilton’s BRG team has improved and cut down on their number of ridiculous denials, but my clear takeaway is that Hilton’s BRG is now #1 for me and has left Marriott behind. Fairmont is still good but only 10% discount is quite modest relative to 25% for Hilton.
Suite Upgrades
Hyatt remains on top thanks to the 4 suite upgrade awards that you can use at the time of booking, plus several other suite upgrades upon availability. On the Marriott side, since the integration I am still unclear if there is a change but with more elite guests there is a minor downtick I believe. Hilton made a subtle change to Diamond benefits to more clearly list suite upgrades as a perk. Different hotels handle it differently, but my personal experience has been a mild improvement. I used to love the Fairmont suite upgrade vouchers (similar to Hyatt) but starting in 2019 that is gone because of Accor. Overall that means Hilton has gained a bit of ground regarding suites.
Breakfast
Hilton remains the most generous, I can have free (full) breakfast in the restaurant and not be limited to the lounge in most hotels I go to. Marriott does not have this benefit and now at Starwood legacy hotels I sometimes have to forego points if I want breakfast in the restaurant, so on occasion I end up sticking to the lounge. Some Hyatt hotels also limit breakfast to the lounge too. Meanwhile Waldorf now offers breakfast to Diamond guests starting in 2018 so it’s an improvement rather than a cut. Fairmont does not offer breakfast for Platinum guests and this is not changing. Hilton was already the best in terms of breakfast and has in fact increased the gap.
Late Check-Out
This has always been a weakness of Hilton relative to competitors. I do not want to have to fight for late check-outs. This is guaranteed with Hyatt and Marriott so Hilton remains behind.
Service
This is an area where Hilton has been lagging because I get the services of a Hyatt Concierge as Globalist and of an Ambassador with Marriott/Starwood. With Hilton we have to call the Diamond line or e-mail and never get access to the same individual who over time could develop a good understanding of the guest and know preferences which allows to provide useful services. There has been turnover at Hyatt and I cannot seem to get a good concierge for an extended period like in the past. In addition their services have always been more limited than Starwood’s Ambassador service. But there too service has deteriorated. My ambassador used to respond to my requests very quickly, but since the Marriott integration on August 18 it sometimes takes her up to a week to reply, and sometimes she never does. If I never had her services before August 18 I would be led to believe that she is not very good, but the truth is that it’s not her fault. She just has too much of a workload now with a large increase in Ambassador elite guests and the ambassador service has eroded to the point that I frequently have to call the general ambassador line and talk to someone else, which is similar to calling the Hilton Diamond line. Hilton’s Diamond desk is not always very efficient but at least they respond to most of my e-mails within 24 hours, sometimes even within one hour. The gap with Hyatt and Marriott has narrowed. Accor is disastrous but at least for now the Fairmont line still provides the same service as before Accor’s acquisition.
Top Tier Benefits
Hilton Diamond status is just too easy to achieve particularly with the Aspire card. If only Hilton came up with a new top tier at 100 nights rather than 60 nights with excellent benefits such as guaranteed suites for some stays and/or late check-out, I would shift even more nights from Marriott, Hyatt, and Accor into Hilton.
==============
In conclusion, kudos to Hilton for some improvements while others are cutting, it has not gone unnoticed for me. ^ And last but not least, I should mention that most if not all of my stays in Hilton hotels have been enjoyable and pleasant, if it was not the case then all of the above would be moot after all.
Earn & Burn
I started the year with over 2.5m points and I wanted to go through a decent chunk of my stash in 2018. In January-April all my stays were booked with points. However I did not run through my points balance as much as expected because of the promo in January-April of 2k pts per stay, and 10k pts bonus for each 5 stays. This effectively meant a 4k pt discount for each 1 night stay, so many stays at 5k-25k pts actually ended up costing me only 1k-21k. Then I had planned the big hit for my points balance in the autumn: 16 nights at Conrad Bora Bora, all with points. Well actually it turned out that one of those nights was a free weekend credit card night, and for the other 15 I only paid 12 of them thanks to 5thnight free benefit. For the rest of the year it was double points May – December, and even triple points in July and triple points Sep-Dec for resorts and luxury hotels. Complain all you want about points devaluation at Hilton, but the earning rates are attractive given the non-stop promos. Compare that with Hyatt who has been fairly blah in terms of promos, and Marriott which has cut promos far below what Starwood used to offer, and now we end up in a situation where Hilton’s earn and burn might be the best - I have not done the math yet but that’s what I suspect. That’s not even counting the stackable promo of 2,500 Lufthansa miles for each paid stay in August – October which made many of my one-night stays very cheap.
Then there is the credit card. I upgraded from Amex Surpass to Aspire and got a 100k pt welcome bonus. With Starwood if I upgrade to their top Amex card, no sign-up bonus for me, so I stay put. Then I got 40k pt targeted bonus for Amex Hilton spend late in 2018, not mentioning the generous 14 pts earned per dollar spent at Hilton hotels, while Marriott cut the points on every spending on the Amex SPG from 3 to 2 so I have stopped using it. That’s on top of the free weekend night (as mentioned above) which you can use at the most expensive properties – this is a significant benefit.
On top of this is the new milestone bonus of 10k points each 10 nights starting at 40 nights, and 30k points more at 60 nights.
All these little things add up. Despite using points for all my Hilton stays Jan-Apr, and despite booking 16 nights at one of the most expensive hotels in the entire Hilton portfolio, and a handful of other points redemptions the rest of the year, amazingly I end up year 2018 with as many points as I started. My only possible conclusion is that because of the promos and the new Aspire credit card, Hilton’s earn and burn has recovered. Of course like everybody else, I do not like the secretive Hilton devaluations for some properties, and not having a points chart of each hotel like Hyatt and Marriott have is irritating, but bottom line is if you are not limited geographically where you can use points, there are still some pockets where value is quite good with Hilton.
Best Rate Guarantee
Hyatt is just plain bad, Starwood used to be good but Marriott has changed the program and now it’s ok but not great. Hilton used to be frustrating but I have had a recent string of successes, even on pre-paid rates where I rolled the dice but still got approvals. I do not know if I have more success recently because I know better how to submit claims or if it’s because Hilton’s BRG team has improved and cut down on their number of ridiculous denials, but my clear takeaway is that Hilton’s BRG is now #1 for me and has left Marriott behind. Fairmont is still good but only 10% discount is quite modest relative to 25% for Hilton.
Suite Upgrades
Hyatt remains on top thanks to the 4 suite upgrade awards that you can use at the time of booking, plus several other suite upgrades upon availability. On the Marriott side, since the integration I am still unclear if there is a change but with more elite guests there is a minor downtick I believe. Hilton made a subtle change to Diamond benefits to more clearly list suite upgrades as a perk. Different hotels handle it differently, but my personal experience has been a mild improvement. I used to love the Fairmont suite upgrade vouchers (similar to Hyatt) but starting in 2019 that is gone because of Accor. Overall that means Hilton has gained a bit of ground regarding suites.
Breakfast
Hilton remains the most generous, I can have free (full) breakfast in the restaurant and not be limited to the lounge in most hotels I go to. Marriott does not have this benefit and now at Starwood legacy hotels I sometimes have to forego points if I want breakfast in the restaurant, so on occasion I end up sticking to the lounge. Some Hyatt hotels also limit breakfast to the lounge too. Meanwhile Waldorf now offers breakfast to Diamond guests starting in 2018 so it’s an improvement rather than a cut. Fairmont does not offer breakfast for Platinum guests and this is not changing. Hilton was already the best in terms of breakfast and has in fact increased the gap.
Late Check-Out
This has always been a weakness of Hilton relative to competitors. I do not want to have to fight for late check-outs. This is guaranteed with Hyatt and Marriott so Hilton remains behind.
Service
This is an area where Hilton has been lagging because I get the services of a Hyatt Concierge as Globalist and of an Ambassador with Marriott/Starwood. With Hilton we have to call the Diamond line or e-mail and never get access to the same individual who over time could develop a good understanding of the guest and know preferences which allows to provide useful services. There has been turnover at Hyatt and I cannot seem to get a good concierge for an extended period like in the past. In addition their services have always been more limited than Starwood’s Ambassador service. But there too service has deteriorated. My ambassador used to respond to my requests very quickly, but since the Marriott integration on August 18 it sometimes takes her up to a week to reply, and sometimes she never does. If I never had her services before August 18 I would be led to believe that she is not very good, but the truth is that it’s not her fault. She just has too much of a workload now with a large increase in Ambassador elite guests and the ambassador service has eroded to the point that I frequently have to call the general ambassador line and talk to someone else, which is similar to calling the Hilton Diamond line. Hilton’s Diamond desk is not always very efficient but at least they respond to most of my e-mails within 24 hours, sometimes even within one hour. The gap with Hyatt and Marriott has narrowed. Accor is disastrous but at least for now the Fairmont line still provides the same service as before Accor’s acquisition.
Top Tier Benefits
Hilton Diamond status is just too easy to achieve particularly with the Aspire card. If only Hilton came up with a new top tier at 100 nights rather than 60 nights with excellent benefits such as guaranteed suites for some stays and/or late check-out, I would shift even more nights from Marriott, Hyatt, and Accor into Hilton.
==============
In conclusion, kudos to Hilton for some improvements while others are cutting, it has not gone unnoticed for me. ^ And last but not least, I should mention that most if not all of my stays in Hilton hotels have been enjoyable and pleasant, if it was not the case then all of the above would be moot after all.
Dec 13, 2018, 10:08 am
#2
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: DCA
Posts: 7,769
Agree 100%. Was a Hilton die-hard for many years and caught a lot of flak from the SPG snobs. Now have gone over to about 50% MR/SPG/RC and have been Plat over there and HHD concurrently for about a year. Grass is no greener.
-Earn is MUCH better on the Hilton side - I'm earning more than 2X the number of points/$ on HH stays but the redemption rates are not usually even close to 2X.
-Real benefits (suites, good lounges, late check-out) are mostly nonexistent or come with strings attached with both chains domestically, and HH has always been very good to me internationally.
-No breakfast (or any real benefits) at Ritz (yes at WA and Conrad, at least a little something) - or Courtyard for that matter (whereas HGI breakfasts are often fantastic).
-Hilton app, website, and OLCI, while once pain points, keep getting better IMO. Points post quickly, OLCI allows choice of room, Digital Key is actually really cool and becoming more prevalent, website shows folios quickly. MR doesn't do any of this well.
-I've just found MR properties to be sloppy operationally; many more issues with the blocking and tackling stuff (housekeeping, room service, folios) than I've ever had with Hilton
Just my two cents; small sample size compared to population of course (n of a couple hundred nights).
-Earn is MUCH better on the Hilton side - I'm earning more than 2X the number of points/$ on HH stays but the redemption rates are not usually even close to 2X.
-Real benefits (suites, good lounges, late check-out) are mostly nonexistent or come with strings attached with both chains domestically, and HH has always been very good to me internationally.
-No breakfast (or any real benefits) at Ritz (yes at WA and Conrad, at least a little something) - or Courtyard for that matter (whereas HGI breakfasts are often fantastic).
-Hilton app, website, and OLCI, while once pain points, keep getting better IMO. Points post quickly, OLCI allows choice of room, Digital Key is actually really cool and becoming more prevalent, website shows folios quickly. MR doesn't do any of this well.
-I've just found MR properties to be sloppy operationally; many more issues with the blocking and tackling stuff (housekeeping, room service, folios) than I've ever had with Hilton
Just my two cents; small sample size compared to population of course (n of a couple hundred nights).
Dec 14, 2018, 2:21 am
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Barcelona, London, on a plane
Programs: BA Silver, TK E+, AA PP, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 13,047
One thing I can't abide is hotel chains who can't get their IT right for simple stuff like crediting stays. I also can't stand receiving email responses that show zero reading and comprehension skills on the part of "customer service". So right now both Marriott and Hilton are close to off limits for me.
We'll see whether things improve in 2019...
We'll see whether things improve in 2019...
Dec 14, 2018, 8:02 am
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Homeless
Programs: Hyatt Glob; Hilton Dia; Marriott AMB; Accor Dia; IHG Dia Amb; GHA Tit
Posts: 4,838
One thing I can't abide is hotel chains who can't get their IT right for simple stuff like crediting stays. I also can't stand receiving email responses that show zero reading and comprehension skills on the part of "customer service". So right now both Marriott and Hilton are close to off limits for me.
- Hilton's issue is (hopefully?) temporary and only affects stays in late October until November. I never had such issues before. After sending receipts by e-mail (which I should not have to do, agreed) the issues get fixed.
- Marriott on the other hand has been having problems for several months so unless Hilton problems extend for that long, as of today I would say Marriott remains worse.
- Fairmont / Accor could not get my status correct after the acquisition. Fortunately it was fixed quickly. My certificates originally did not appear, fortunately fixed too. I am sometimes unable to sign up to online promos. Sometimes you can view but you cannot book special rates. Tease. The Accor website is the worst. IT is very bad, they even forgot to take out suite upgrade certificates from my account after I used them. So perhaps bad IT is good after all
- I suspect you would argue that Hyatt has not had the same IT problems. Unfortunately that's not been my experience - I recently had an issue that I am still arguing with them and is still unresolved to this day. So currently I am more upset at Hyatt than with Hilton. I do not trust Hyatt point balances so every time I make a transaction I note down my points balance. A couple of months ago I cancelled a C&P booking and points did not come back to my account. My Hyatt Concierge initially brushed me off asking me to just wait for the next monthly newsletter (!!!), then after escalation I was told accounting confirmed that points were never taken out of my account when I booked so I should not get a refund, which I know is 100% incorrect. Even after sending screen printouts they stick to their guns without providing an explanation. It's more insulting than anything... the value of 6k pts is no big deal, but don't treat me like that. And most importantly, if Hyatt is not going into any kind of transition and points just vanish for no reason, I provide proof and they tell me there is no problem with my points balance? That makes me trust them even less than before this whole episode.
At least Hilton is fixing stuff when I bring it to their attention.
Dec 14, 2018, 8:51 am
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Barcelona, London, on a plane
Programs: BA Silver, TK E+, AA PP, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 13,047
I accept that not everybody is so lucky as me with Hyatt. But I think it's also fair to say "if everybody is elite, then nobody is", which is how I would describe Hilton.
I also wouldn't mind so much about Hilton's IT except for the fact that it was working fine (at least for me), they decided to "upgrade it", but just managed to break it.
Dec 14, 2018, 11:30 am
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Homeless
Programs: Hyatt Glob; Hilton Dia; Marriott AMB; Accor Dia; IHG Dia Amb; GHA Tit
Posts: 4,838
I think I need to send my Concierge some flowers or something for Christmas. Everything I ask is done efficiently by her or a colleague. On the rare occasion when a hotel does something wrong - usually merging two stays into one - she gets onto the hotel and sorts it out for me.
I accept that not everybody is so lucky as me with Hyatt. But I think it's also fair to say "if everybody is elite, then nobody is", which is how I would describe Hilton.
I also wouldn't mind so much about Hilton's IT except for the fact that it was working fine (at least for me), they decided to "upgrade it", but just managed to break it.
I accept that not everybody is so lucky as me with Hyatt. But I think it's also fair to say "if everybody is elite, then nobody is", which is how I would describe Hilton.
I also wouldn't mind so much about Hilton's IT except for the fact that it was working fine (at least for me), they decided to "upgrade it", but just managed to break it.
I think Hilton with a new top tier at 100 nights would change the issue that nobody is an elite...
I did not have a problem with Hilton's IT either, not sure what this upgrade was about
Dec 15, 2018, 4:44 am
#7
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nashville
Programs: DL DM 3 MM AA PLAT HH Lifetime Diamond Marriott Plat AMB lifetime titanium Hertz PC
Posts: 6,187
I think in the Hilton versus Marriott debate, Hilton is head and shoulders above at the moment, Marriott is next to impossible to get a person on the phone to correct any issue and their are a lot of issues with the IT merger. Listed benefits do not mean a lot if they do not routinely happen.
The Hilton versus Hyatt debate is more apples to oranges. One has large footprint with hotels at all price points the other has a much smaller footprint with mostly higher end hotels. I would expect better service from Hyatt. That has been a huge issue with the SPG Marriott merger. Most of the SPG properties were full service to upscale and Marriott has a ton of midtier hotels.
The Hilton versus Hyatt debate is more apples to oranges. One has large footprint with hotels at all price points the other has a much smaller footprint with mostly higher end hotels. I would expect better service from Hyatt. That has been a huge issue with the SPG Marriott merger. Most of the SPG properties were full service to upscale and Marriott has a ton of midtier hotels.