Berto

So I have a rather major dilemma on my hands. In a little less than a month I am heading out on spring break to London, Paris and some unknown destination in Germany. I am flying out of Frankfurt and since I know there is not much in the way to do in Frankfurt itself I wanted to head south for the two days that I would be in Germany. Initially I had wanted to go to Munich, but with the CNL train not apparently running on 12 March, makes this a harder sell for me. So then I set my sites of Freiburg and the black forest and then work my way up to Frankfurt so I can get a hotel on the night of the 14th. Both are places I'd quite like to visit, but I cant decide! So where should I go Munich or Freiburg or some other destination? I am trying to figure this out this weekend, since I dont really want to spend any more time trying to figure this one out. Plus more than likely I will just wind up going to whatever region I dont go to this year, when I go back next year.

If your wondering my schedule has me wanting to take a train from Paris to the destination on the evening of the 3/12 and then make my way back to Frankfurt somepoint during the day on 3/14 so I can catch my morning flight to Atlanta on 3/15.

tfar

Hi Berto,

not a big problem really. You like Champagne? Go from Paris to Reims. Visit the fabulous Gothic Cathedral and tour one or two Champagne houses. The visit at Pieper Heidsieck is particularly impressive. They take you under earth into a mile long system of tunnels of chalk where you use a laser guided electric train to visit the "caves". Totally amazing and definitely not the usual American tourist destination. So Reims is a clear must stop when you go eastwards from Paris.

Then you can either go slightly north and visit the historic city of Trier. See here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...sta_Treverorum

Unfortunately, I have never been but they say it's amazing. Enough for two days or more right there and you only have one.

Or you can go slightly south and visit Worms (supposed to also be a very interesting medieval city) or the city every American knows: Heidelberg. It is gorgeous and the train connections to Frankfurt are great. I believe there is even a direct bus service to the Frankfurt airport from the Ramada Hotel (right by the Neckar river, close to the train station). You can find that out at the tourist info or perhaps over the internet. Visit the castle and hike along the Philosophenweg.

Besides that, Frankfurt is not that bad. They have a wonderful concert hall if you are into classical music and they have an excellent art museum the Staedelsche Kunstinstitut. http://www.staedelmuseum.de/sm/index...websiteLang=en

Seriously, this is one nice museum. Not as big as the Louvre or such and not an encyclopedic museum in the American style but a museum where they make world-class exhibits on certain subjects based on their own collection and with loans from other institutions around the globe.

You could also visit the Goethehaus where Germany's most famous writer was born. If you have not read anything (especially Faust or the poems) by Goethe your education is not complete. It is only due to the incredibly bad American high school education that even otherwise well educated people don't know this writer who was probably more significant in the history of literature than Shakespeare.
http://www.aviewoncities.com/frankfurt/goethehaus.htm

So one day Reims and one day Frankfurt, and your time and money will be well spent and you will travel without stress.

You can thank me later...

Till

flyingfkb

An alternative is Cologne. Easy to reach from the FRA airport by train within an hour. It is also possible to take the Thalys train from Cologne back to Paris or to Brussels where you can catch the Eurostar to London.

tfar

True. Cologne is a really good alternative. Plenty to do there, too. Have you been there, Berto?

Berto

Ok, lets break this down, since I am a bit behind on keeping up on my own thread...

Sounds like it would be an interesting stop to make. However, I would like to try and spend atleast 2 full days in Germany, but I will make note of this for "Graduating with an Electrical Engineering Degree" trip I plan on taking in 2010. Pretty much it boils down to I need to get at least two days in getting some German language practice in...

Actually my plan originally when I thought about going through Brussels or Luxembourg was to swing my way through Trier. However, since I decided I didnt want to do that route in such a short time (in addition to my reason above for France). Definitley want to visit there...but it is probably going to wait for next year...

As for Frankfurt, it is not necisarilly that I dont really want to spend time there. Just staying there on the 3/13 would cost more then I could afford due to some trade fairs in town that run through the 14th. Luckily the night of the 14th, hotel prices go back down to normal levels. I've been thinking of at least spending the afternoon in Frankfurt, but with having to get a hotel elsewhere I figure my time (and money) is better allocated elsewhere.

I have never been to Cologne before....in fact the only city in Germany that I have been to is Berlin (unless you want to count stops on the various CNL trains I took last year where we would be stuck at stations like Fulda for 30 minutes while they changed equipment, etc). I am open to the possibilities of Cologne...even though I would rather spend more time visiting also Dusseldorf, Bonn, Aachen along with it....I'm open to the idea, just tell me more what could I do for a day? Would it be worth stopping in Bonn heading south? And I hear that following the Rhine in this area back towards Mainz/Frankfurt is suppossed to be quite beautiful (would be nice to get some time outside the cities).

While I query for that info, anyone else have any feelings on Freiburg and heading north along the Rhine (opposite of heading south on the Rhine from Cologne idea)? Could even swing through Worms or Heidelburg at that rate as well...

Compared to my fellow American students, at least I have heard of Goethe. Unfortunately, it appears my education is not complete!

There just is not enough time in one week to do and see everything I want to!!!

Berto

So....anyone else have any thoughts?

soitgoes

Munich, Hamburg, Cologne are all good choices.

Berto

So im kinda starting to lean back to heading to Munich. At the same time I think it would be nice to get out of the major cities for a bit at the same time. Considering maybe either stopping in maybe Augsburg, Nuremburg or somewhere for half a day on the way back to Frankfurt. There is also a crazy voice inside me head that tells me I should spend some time in Garmisch-Partenkirchen, and take a ride to the summit of Zugspitze. Would be nice to get into a snowy-er area if even only for a few hours...remember I live in Florida...

So, let me know am I crazy in thinking any of these?

husker267

Personally, I'm a huge fan of Munich, and could easily live there. It really depends on what interests you; culture, history, food/drink, etc. With only two days, your mobility may be limited as you don't want to spend the whole time in transit going from site to site.

flyingfkb

I agree with husker267. Don't squeeze too many into your schedule. You will spent more time getting to the places than exploring them.

Decide if you want to go south to see Heidelberg and Freiburg to Bavaria to see Munich or west to see Cologne. If you go to Cologne skip Düsseldorf. Bonn or Aachen are more interesting.

Berto

Ha...I can be quite ambitious with what I want to do when I am travelling. It is even worse because I know more than likely once I get my piece of paper that says im an Engineer in May 2010, I plan on roaming around Europe for a month, so there is always pelnty of time for me to go the places I do not visit on this trip. It is this reason that I think I will be saving Cologne for then. Id much rather visit Cologne with Aachen, Dusseldorf, Bonn, and then work my way down the Rhine toward Mainz. Summer seems to be the better season for this anyways...at least from some of the pictures I've seen on the net. I think I will save Freiburg for this purpose too, since I want to spend a day hiking in the black forest and again it seems summer time is better for this.

I think I am starting to really feel the vibes for Munich. I just really wish that the CityNightLine train operated on the dates I needed...it would be much nicer to wrap transport and sleep into one cost. That said its only a 1 hour longer ride on the ICE from Paris as compared to Freiburg. Plus it has helped out I have found some relatively cheap hotels in the center of Munich.

Along with Munich I am thinking about taking one of the mornings down to Zugspitze if I feel that I have time. Just looked at timetables and it appears that it only takes around 1.5 hours to get to Garmisch-Partenkirche and which doesnt seem to be too bad of a ride (2 hours away would probably have me questioning whether or not to go). Even with that in there I should be able to hit most of the bigger things I want to see and do in Munich.

I'm going to sit on this a little bit more before I purchase tickets. Not too long, probably later tonight I will make my final decision, so any more input you can throw at me before then it would be appreciated.

exbayern

Ok, so now you are getting close to my area so I must chime in! I was going to suggest Cologne/Köln because it is easy/cheap to/from Paris and has not just the Dom but also the wonderful chocolate museum. In fact, I am thinking of going next month just to see the museum in winter as in summer it was a little too hot to spend much time there.

Are you adverse to flying? I would suggest that if time is short and you truly want to go to Bavaria that you look at flying into Munich as it is very often possible to get a cheap flight and the time saved is considerable sometimes.

I am often in Garmisch-Partenkirchen and surroundings but I drive. Train however is easy and quick and brings you pretty much into the centre of much of what you would want to see and connections close by. For instance the Zugspitzbahn is right by the train station. http://www.zugspitze.de/main_en.php It is also a short and pleasant walk to both the heart of Garmisch and Partenkirchen from the train station. But I would check the weather to see if there is a view or not from the Zugspitze before making the trek or you may be disappointed (the websites show current and forecasted conditions)

The biggest consideration would be how much time you have on hand. As a day trip I think that you miss so many of the other area attractions like Linderhof and Oberammergau, so an overnight in GAP is preferable at least. Then I would give at least two days if you can to the sites of München. But you also need to factor in how/when you are going to get back to FRA into your plans.

If you stay with your previous plan of Baden-Württemberg and Black Forest area then again you need to consider how much you can see by train. Again, I drive and a nice trip for me is to start at Bodensee/Lake Konstanz and up through Freiburg, the green route and the Schwarzwald-Panoramastraße http://www.schwarzwald.net/touren/gruene_strasse.html with a detour to Strasbourg and perhaps Baden-Baden. I am not so hot for Heidelberg but it seems to be on most American itineraries.

Also remember that some things are open only in season, so if you are going before the start of April you may find certain attractions/locations closed, and check that before you go.

Your biggest issue is time. Oddly enough, I am currently trying to map out a short holiday which starts in London for work and winds my way back to Bavaria while making stops along the way. Going from Paris to further south in Germany is not so easy as from Paris to Köln and the surrounding area. So you must really add in a good chunk of time for that extra and not so convenient travel. That is why I suggest seeing if you can find a cheap one way or throw away return from CDG to MUC - I do that quite often. LH is pricing as 109 return for a flight on 12.03.2009 for example.

Best of luck!

Berto

As for flying to Munich...I have thought about that actually since I found that AF advertises youth fares for approx. $75 CDG-MUC. Downside is the latest flight I can get out on that fare is at 18:20. By the time I factor having to catch the RER to CDG, check-in, pass through security, etc at this point its probably better just to take the TGV/ICE route that leaves at 17:30 just to get a little more time in Paris, of course that is at the expense of time in Munich since it appears that it is approx. 6 hours by rail - not getting to Munich until 23:30. Checking LH, the cheapest fare leaves Paris too early at 12:55, then there is airberlin, but that leaves at 17:30 and takes almost as long thanks to connecting in DUS. Also, haven’t been on a TGV/ICE train set (especially the LGV Est line), unless you want to count an ICE train from Interlaken to Bern last year...but that wasn't very high speed...
I guess that is the downside of any mountain in the Alps. So far I've been lucky; last year when I left Interlaken the summit conditions on Schilthorn were as indicated horrible. By the time I had made my way to summit it was a clear! Actually worked out best since that probably deterred many individuals from going to the top (it was great at that one point being the one person outside on the summit). However, how would you recommend reaching the summit? The Zugspitzbahn or the cable car that seems to run from a neighboring town? Plus I see there is a fare reduction if you show a DB ticket, which I am assuming a Länder-Ticket would be sufficient.
It's true, time is my #1 enemy on this trip. Unfortunately that does mean having to miss out on other things in the area. You know truth be told, I was hoping to spend more time in Germany this trip, but award availability dictated where I am going to this spring. This is why I am having to compromise on missing some other places on this trip. Getting back to Frankfurt is definitely the tricky part. More than likely it will have to be in the early evening on 3.14 so I can get back and get some rest and I don't miss my flight the next morning from sleeping in. As far as getting back to Frankfurt I've even thought about LH versus DB...
As for an overnight in GAP, I have considered it; the downside is I would get in at 00:30 by taking the train direct from Paris. Or I alternatively spend the night on the 13th there then wake up go up the mountain, etc and then head to Frankfurt on the 14th. Plus side is that it seems hotel rates are generally decent. Any recommendations on a particular hotel?
I did read up on those, and they are definitely on my list, but I just want to do too much in the area. I don’t want to feel like I would be jumping from one city to the other every 4 hours. It is for this reason why I think I am going to save that area for my next trip to Germany when I can spend more than a few days exploring that corner of the country (but then that seems true for just about everywhere for me on this trip doesn't it?)...

I'm pushing my deadline to tomorrow afternoon, but by then I feel that I need to make a decision so I can starting booking tickets, hotels, etc. My departure date is only 16 days away and this is the last part of my trip I have nothing for.

exbayern

It is really a personal preference. I prefer the Bahn because I no longer have the fascination I had for cable cars in my youth.

There are a good range of hotels in the midst of town but rates may still be a bit high. We typically stay out of town; my family towards Mittenwald but my preference is currently the Riessersee. For a first visit and with no car I definitely suggest finding something in town, and any half decent hotel booking site will give you a good variety.

Again, I often fly MUC-FRA if I can find a decent fare and if I am flying onwards from FRA. I don't like driving that stretch as it can vary a lot with traffic. So if you can save some time by flying it may help, but you still need to factor in all the travel ie between Garmisch-Partenkirchen to MUC will take you time plus all the usual airport formalities.

We can only give some guidance; ultimately it is up to you and your personal preferences and how much you feel you can squeeze into a very short amount of time. For me that is a very tight agenda. To give you an example last summer friends came to visit and we drove to Salzburg on the Friday, then on a Sunday from Salzburg to Linderhof to Oberammergau with only a pit stop in Garmisch-Partenkirchen and back to Munich. That was an extremely long day taken up more by travel than by doing things. So you need to determine what you value most and then make that decision.

Best of luck!

Berto

If I was not leaving so early from FRA on the 15th I would have just considered flying MUC-FRA that morning. I'm going to see if I can keep poking around and find something affordable for the evening on the 14th. Otherwise it is looking like a 3 hour train ride. From your experience flying ex-MUC what would you say a good estimate for getting to the airport before the flight? I would assume 1 hour would be sufficient.

Yeah, this is true...Ideally I would have more time to spread things over, when your bounded by a week and coming from London and Paris it is just inevitable. I hate it, but so I'll have to take the aggressive approach. On the other hand, maybe I'll treat the expedition to Zugspitze like I did for Schilthorn in Switzerland last year and just play it by year and wait until I am actually on the ground in Germany. Who knows, maybe I'll just wind up sticking to Munich or I will find something else in the vicinity that steals my attention. This way, if for some reason, the weather is horrible or for whatever other reason, I don’t disappoint myself too much if I am not able to do a particular thing. I think with being as crunched as I am for time on this final leg, this may be the only sane way to handle it. Besides, ticket prices Munich->Garmisch-Partenkirchen seem to have static prices so its not like I would have any reason to buy a train ticket early.

Speaking of train tickets, what about Länder-Tickets? What is up with the Bavaria Single that only costs 20EUR? Is it just a one way ticket or is it just for one person? I know the regular ticket allows a max. of 5 people per ticket.