obtaining german citizenship
Jul 16, 2009 | 2:06 pm
#31
Join Date: Dec 2005
Programs: OW Emerald, *A Gold
Posts: 6,939
My wife was born in Germany to a German mother (unknown who father is). When she was young she moved to US but did not get German citizenship until her 20's. I believe at that time she had to renounce her German Citizenship. Is there any way she can get a German passport without renouncing her US citizenship?
Jul 18, 2009 | 4:30 am
#32
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Capetown
Programs: Marriott LT Plat, IHG and Hilton Diamond, LH LT SEN, QR Platinum. BA Silver (going down further)
Posts: 10,235
I am curious what would be the constitutional court (or EU human rights) ruling for a post-2000 foreign-born child of German parent(s) when the child's German parent(s) failed to register the birth within the specified time frame due to death of the German parent(s). Denying the citizenship claim rights of a child due to parental inability, incapacitation or negligence seems like punishing the child for circumstances beyond the child's control.
Jul 19, 2009 | 5:37 pm
#33
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 12,099
The interesting thing about this is that only one parent needs to be German. I was born in the US to German parents (both), however I never bothered getting a German passport until I was an adult. Shortly after I finally did get a passport (2003-4 timeframe), it was also possible for my children to get German passports because I had a German passport, even though my wife is not German. Theoretically it seems my kids can now get German passports for their kids, ad infinitum. This seems like a loophole of sorts.
Both parents became Canadian citizens after i was born.My two youngest brothers will not be able to get their German passport as both parents were Canadian citizens at that time.
Interesting read
Jul 19, 2009 | 8:49 pm
#34
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 11,377
The interesting thing about this is that only one parent needs to be German. I was born in the US to German parents (both), however I never bothered getting a German passport until I was an adult. Shortly after I finally did get a passport (2003-4 timeframe), it was also possible for my children to get German passports because I had a German passport, even though my wife is not German. Theoretically it seems my kids can now get German passports for their kids, ad infinitum. This seems like a loophole of sorts.
On a side note, the US does have some complicated rules about passing on citizenship from a parent not born in the US to a child not born in the US--there are some US residency requirements that have to be met.
Jul 20, 2009 | 1:44 pm
#35
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,077
Deadlines are deadlines but that doesn't change the fact that denying children a claim to citizenship because of parental incompetence, negligence, disability or death is the equivalent of punishing the children for the acts and omissions of the parents.
Jul 20, 2009 | 2:00 pm
#36
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,077
It's not a loophole...it's the way it is supposed to work. Citizens of a country should be able to pass their citizenship on to their children. Now, in the past in Germany and elsewhere, only the father could do so. That has changed.
On a side note, the US does have some complicated rules about passing on citizenship from a parent not born in the US to a child not born in the US--there are some US residency requirements that have to be met.
On a side note, the US does have some complicated rules about passing on citizenship from a parent not born in the US to a child not born in the US--there are some US residency requirements that have to be met.
Jul 20, 2009 | 2:36 pm
#37
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 52,734
as is his Grandfather), but we decided to let that one go. The poor kid will be confused with three already
Jul 20, 2009 | 2:50 pm
#38
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Munich, Germany
Programs: Miles&More Blue, SPG Silver
Posts: 3,452
Only if you end up state-less. Otherwise no.
Jul 20, 2009 | 4:19 pm
#39
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,077
No, it's that too but also other than just that. Even if a person doesn't end up stateless, other fundamental rights derived from citizenship status -- including that tied to economic status/participation -- can be compromised by denial of citizenship.
Jul 20, 2009 | 4:28 pm
#40
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,077
My son has the German (thru me), Swedish (his mother) and the US (born here) Citizenship. Still has the option of getting the Finnish one (mother and grandparents were Finnish by birth and only changed later) and Indian one (I was Indian at birth till 1976 as is his Grandfather), but we decided to let that one go. The poor kid will be confused with three already
as is his Grandfather), but we decided to let that one go. The poor kid will be confused with three already
Jul 20, 2009 | 4:35 pm
#41
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 7,566
It's not how it works in the UK... British citizenship can only be passed on to one generation. Someone born abroad to British-born parents is British. ("British by descent"). Someone born abroad to parents classed as "British by descent" is not entitled to British citizenship - but anyone with at least one British-born grandparent can live and work in the UK fairly easily by applying for an ancestral visa.
Jul 20, 2009 | 4:54 pm
#42
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,077
It's not how it works in the UK... British citizenship can only be passed on to one generation. Someone born abroad to British-born parents is British. ("British by descent"). Someone born abroad to parents classed as "British by descent" is not entitled to British citizenship - but anyone with at least one British-born grandparent can live and work in the UK fairly easily by applying for an ancestral visa.
A lot of citizenship laws and practices ought to be revised, if not by the legislatures, then by the courts. That's my normative statement.
Jul 20, 2009 | 5:11 pm
#43
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: CGK
Programs: LH SEN (LH*G), HH Diamond, AB Gold (1W Saph)
Posts: 5,677
India -- much like some other former British colonies in Asia and Africa -- has a constitutional ban against Indian citizens holding Indian citizenship and another country's citizenship at the same time. Short of surrendering all those foreign nationalities, submitting a false application or a change in their constitution, getting Indian citizenship and retaining it is not possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-res..._Indian_Origin
Jul 20, 2009 | 5:41 pm
#44
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,077
In India's case, there is the Person of Indian Origin Card which gives the holder many of the benefits a passport would.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-res..._Indian_Origin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-res..._Indian_Origin
PIO and OCI are also more often than not useless when it comes to the primary benefit of a passport: ability to use that document to acquire permission to enter and enter a country other than the one that issued the passport.
Last edited by GUWonder; Jul 20, 2009 at 5:52 pm
Jul 20, 2009 | 6:08 pm
#45
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 11,377
Yes, but as you may have already noticed there is that distinction between positive and normative statements as illustrated in this context when soitgoes used the word should for a reason. soitgoes supplied a normative statement, a declaration of what is ideal rather than what is necessarily the practice everywhere.
I was replying to the 'loophole' comment. A loophole is something that gets around the intention of the law, and I don't think a parent's ability to pass his/her citizenship to his/her offspring is a loophole. It just is (in this case it is, and in other cases, it should be, IMO).