[QUOTE=gengar;20190827]Actually, the reason why casinos don't allow the simultaneous red-black bet is to limit gambler access to a low-volatility way to wash promo chips and coupons. It's not a house advantage issue (I've been to casinos where they do allow it!). The only reason why the numbers in your "strategy" slant positive is that you're counting the match play if you win but not if you lose.

I've actually seen a casino allow the simultaneous red-black bet when someone was trying to clear some promo chips two different times. The second time I was smart enough to bet green - the poor sap was pissed but I tipped him a chip to make him feel better.

Absolutely I'm talking about washing them, and allowing the washing puts the house in a worse spot, hence the disadvantage...

I'm not sure about the table tips point- I'd argue it with the IRS as a cost of the transaction, and expense against the income. Might well fail but I think it's right in principle, I'm certainly not trying to be underhand with the reporting here. In fact large poker tournaments have forced tipping so the IRS w4 for that win would be interesting to see if it was net or gross of the tip.

Also, I believe I read somewhere that pro gamblers can expense all manner of things such as travel and accomodation (if it isn't comped). I wonder what it takes to be considered a pro... Have to look into that.

No - again, as I said, it is simply less volatile. It doesn't put them in a "worse spot" or a "disadvantage". You need to be careful about the terms you use - they mean different things. A house advantage is different from volatility which is different from any arbitrary end result of a play session.

No, it's not right in principle. Keep in mind that if your tip bet loses, that is also deducted from your win/loss, so there is no "unfair" or even disparate treatment. You are the person betting that tip, and it is considered no differently from anything else you bet.

I disagree. If I go to a casino and 'win' $1000 over the trip, but have tipped $1500 then I have infact incurred a loss for the trip. That I should pay tax on the profit is wrong in principle. I'm sure they would ask for it but I would want to take a stand on this.

Tax law + gaming is not just something you make up.

The IRS is very strict, and requires an immense amount of documentation and back-up data.

I do not think you would get away with this on any level.

It's hard enough to even deal with the everyday (gaming) tax issues. In addition, how are you going to "prove" what you tipped? I can only think of perhaps, a "tip-journal," but that's going to be very interesting if you ever get audited.

A good place to start, if you are a professional player and/or recreational player that has many W2-Gs and has to offset losses etc.

I understand how the current law works, I just think it is unfair and should be challenged. People do challenge the tax laws.

I have enough loss to wipe my w4-g so its not relevant to me anyway, I am just saying I don't think its fair and I might just go ahead and say so to the IRS if I was in that situation.

Challenging the IRS in a situation like this probably requires accountants and lawyers (whose cost) would probably exceed the expectation. It's not like there is a huge good samaritan contingent out there that is feeling horrible about gamblers who tip heavy, and then want to offset the tips against wins (as losses)

Representing yourself in tax-court, against the IRS could be very dangerous.

There are many things that are unfair, especially with regard to the IRS. You just deal with it the best you can. Believe me, this (deducting tips), is probably one of the least substantive complaints against the IRS. In any case, people shouldn't be tipping that much anyway. (and those that do tip on extreme levels are hardly worried about the tax implications).

I'm always worried about the tax implications. It annoys me no end when I finish a trip and they have net out by 2-3K.

Personally it feels wrong, I look at trips like this like a profit center and if the IRS does too (by wanting to tax the win) then they should realize a profit center comes with costs.

Furthermore it annoys me even more when the Hosts come back with 'oh you won, we didn't comp you for the entire trip, but you still made out' after you kick the dealers the profit they think you won and you walk out with less money than you started with.

I feel your pain (but, quite frankly, I only tip "on-top" for dealers; and if I hit a nice run, so do they....)

But, there are many ways around the problem you mention above; and none of the ones that come to mind have the sheer complexity of messing with the IRS.

Me too, but often I can tip like that in hour 1 and swing loss on day 2. I play a little fast... Also I started out after college as a dealer so I like to make a difference, especially when on cruises where they make $5 or less a day salary.

IRS is messy and convoluted and I hope they clean their act up.

But on a brighter note I got my Fiore Suite sorted for next month, plus they doubled my comps to $200 match plays and $50 free comp dollars, and it's restaurant week! Knife & Fork here I come!

Not stating an opinion, but if you are tipping to "make a difference," why should you be able to offset tips?

Because the money I play with has been taxed already, I take it on vacation and add it to their income, which may or may not be taxed again, which then goes into the ecosystem and is taxed again at sales level.

Let me put it another way.

Taxes suck. If I pay them on income I should not pay them again when gifting taxed income to someone else.

But tipping is an instance when you don't pay taxes again. Unlike, say, gift tax over the exemption.

OK lets do a simplified example:

Salary 100K Taxed 30% Tax 30K

Take 10K in your pocket from 70K Net income to Casino for weekend.

Day 1 End with 20K in your pocket, having tipped 5K over the evening during 'hot streaks etc'
Day 2 End with 10K in your pocket.

Net Win/Loss to Casino (which reports to IRS) = 5K

IRS Then taxes 5K@30% for 1.5K

Net Annual is now $68.5K

So by tipping, you were taxed immediately, from zero upwards, with no 'gift tax exemption'.

Now, Dealer reports income to IRS of 5K for year (poor dealer) pays tax at 30% (for simplicity)

IRS Taxes Dealer $1.5K

Casino reports cap loss of $5K to IRS, they write this down against their $10K win (taxable at 30%) and save $1.5K in taxes.

So we have, from a 5K transaction:

Reported Win Tax 1.5K (Player)
Reported Loss Tax Deduction 1.5K (House)
Reported Salary Tax 1.5K (Dealer)

It is a double tap, because the house is not considering the cost of the transaction in the win/loss and I am saying dealer tip is a cost of transaction.

Simplified numbers, I know, but the concept is there.

I'm not saying the IRS isn't taxing like this. I am saying it is BS that they do!

No! You were not taxed because you tipped. You were taxed because you made 5k. What you choose to do with that 5k is immaterial to the taxation.