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Originally Posted by baccarat_king
(Post 20081512)
Love it, more baccarat stories, please. :D
Last Saturday night @borg, two Macao midi-baccarat tables were operating in high limit (big baccarat was closed), both $100 tables. About a half hour after I got there, an Asian lady took an old crumpled plastic bag out of her purse. Cash buy in, $75,000. Yep, it took them a few minutes to do that count + drop. :D Didn't get a huge Bac game there, but it was part of a chain of London casino (The flagship for high end gaming) so on a quiet night they would whisk is away in limos to help out at the lower end clubs (some of which were still super action clubs but didn't come with the 1000 GBP annual membership... ) my mate went with me and was told to supervise a heaving Bac game, full sized table with high stool tennis umpire like individual supervisor. The game was packed and good sized action occuring, bets in five figures. As he came from the flagship it was assumed he was an expert. However he had never been taught Bac and didn't even know how a player won, let alone drawing rules and vig! He bs-d his way through it by looking stern...all ended well. Good memories, I still like Bac but I always try to bet the break not the streak as whilst some people think all things must streak I think all streaks must end... |
Originally Posted by baccarat_king
(Post 20078139)
I like Amphora, but it doesn't compare to the lounges at Mohegan Sun.
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Originally Posted by brooklynmatt
(Post 20073997)
I've had a few PMs asking about how I maximize the table match plays, it just so happens that is the post of the day on my blog so if any of you are interested or use match play coupons there are some tips here http://saverocity.com/blog/maximizing-casino-comps/
I'm new to the whole blogging thing so if you would like to leave comments about the content I would be very receptive to your feedback, how well I explained my idea of arbitrate betting the match plays for almost zero risk etc. Cheers. I also talk about my overall 'haul' in comps for 2012 which I valued at about $13K I don't play craps so I skipped that section but think you may want to revist your roulette calculation. In your example you have the $100 coupon on red, $100 on red, $100 on black and $6 on 0/00. I'm not understanding your win calculation in outcome #1. If you hit red you win $200 and lose $106 so I think you win $94. Where is the extra $100 coming from? Also, in outcome #3, the half back is only in some places - for example on a 0-00 table in vegas you would get nothing back from your red and black bets (i.e. you would lose the $200 and the $100 coupon). What I do not rember is what happens to the match play coupon in an instance where you get half back. Do you lose it or get to play it (or half of it) again? |
Originally Posted by brooklynmatt
(Post 20073997)
I've had a few PMs asking about how I maximize the table match plays, it just so happens that is the post of the day on my blog so if any of you are interested or use match play coupons there are some tips here http://saverocity.com/blog/maximizing-casino-comps/
I'm new to the whole blogging thing so if you would like to leave comments about the content I would be very receptive to your feedback, how well I explained my idea of arbitrate betting the match plays for almost zero risk etc. Cheers. I also talk about my overall 'haul' in comps for 2012 which I valued at about $13K The principle is no different with Match Play. Your roulette example shows that this is roughly equivalent to just betting $100 cash on red -- if red hits, you get about $200, and if it doesn't, you get about zero. The only difference is that the casino is "giving" you that first $100 (some casinos just give you a "free bet" coupon that you don't have to match, which would be essentially the same thing). And if you are getting Match Play offers in the first place, it means you are doing plenty of other gambling, so why wimp out and try to "arbitrage" your match play offer? Just bet the Match Play on your usual game and you will leave the table, on average, with a bit more money than you would have without Match Play (or you will leave the table with no money a bit later than you would have without Match Play). What's more, your roulette example shows you taking away $50 on red and $50 on black if 0/00 hits ... but you are really losing $150 on red, since you also lost the value of the match play. So that really sucks. Even if you fancy yourself a card counter or have some other system which you imagine improves your odds (most likely it does not), just use the Match Plays when the count is in your favor/your "system" tells you that a red is "due" on the roulette wheel/the moon is in the seventh house and Jupiter aligns with Mars. See www.wizardofodds.com for a lot more on these types of things. He has a specific article to address the point that taking counter-balancing bets always loses in the end, but I can't find it just now. That said, in theory there are "better" and "worse" ways to use Match Plays. See here: http://www.beyondcounting.com/pdfs/b...ouponsbjfo.pdf . However, most of these depend on using a Match Play for a non-even-money bet, so they don't work at the Borgata. In addition this article assumes that your coupon has lots of nasty restrictions on it (lost in case of a push, just pays even money if you get a natural in Blackjack rather than the full 3:2, can't be doubled or split in Blackjack, etc.) and in my experience Borgata is better than that -- they are as generous as you could expect them to be (ticket is kept to use again if you push, pays out fully in all Blackjack cases), so some bits of advice in that article do not apply. (That said, I am not actually sure what Borgata does about the half-back rule when a Match Play is involved. If they take half your cash and the entire coupon, then it is a terrible use of the Match Play. If they take half your cash and leave you the entire coupon, then it is an excellent use of the Match Play and BrooklynMatt's strategy actually does have a hugely positive expectation above and beyond any house edge since the "half back" rule is effectively a "75% back" rule. If they take all of your cash and leave you "half" in the form of the Match Play coupon, it's still pretty bad since $100 Match Play coupon is worth less than $100 cash.)
Originally Posted by brooklynmatt
(Post 20078678)
Why would you play them off as $25s? Do you still get full value doing that? I watch folk picking $25 instead of the $50 or $100 option and it blows my mind. I'm getting $200 a pop now, with either $100 or $150 with them per trip, I always print out the max.
Never been to CT for gaming, do you think they would match my Black card there? I like the Borg too, but the best two restaurants for me are Knife&Fork (happy hour apps at the bar 1/2 price!!!) and Revel Amada tasting menu. |
Originally Posted by brooklynmatt
(Post 20078678)
Why would you play them off as $25s? Do you still get full value doing that? I watch folk picking $25 instead of the $50 or $100 option and it blows my mind. I'm getting $200 a pop now, with either $100 or $150 with them per trip, I always print out the max.
Never been to CT for gaming, do you think they would match my Black card there? I like the Borg too, but the best two restaurants for me are Knife&Fork (happy hour apps at the bar 1/2 price!!!) and Revel Amada tasting menu.
Originally Posted by colerc
(Post 20103439)
Full value? What? If you have $200 in Match Play you can print 8x $25 coupons, 4x $50 coupons, 2x $100 coupons, or 1x $200 coupon. If you prefer to bet $25 a hand, then you can use Match Play 8 times. No difference in net end result...
Mohegan does not status match. (but they give new players who show an AC players club card $100 in free play) They will grant VIP lounge access though, based on a strong day of play. Status is much harder to obtain at Mohegan, than Borgata Black Label or Caesars Diamond; but the lounges and overall benefits are better. Of course, there is some variation. |
Originally Posted by Rookie3
(Post 20103010)
I don't play craps so I skipped that section but think you may want to revist your roulette calculation.
In your example you have the $100 coupon on red, $100 on red, $100 on black and $6 on 0/00. I'm not understanding your win calculation in outcome #1. If you hit red you win $200 and lose $106 so I think you win $94. Where is the extra $100 coming from? Also, in outcome #3, the half back is only in some places - for example on a 0-00 table in vegas you would get nothing back from your red and black bets (i.e. you would lose the $200 and the $100 coupon). What I do not rember is what happens to the match play coupon in an instance where you get half back. Do you lose it or get to play it (or half of it) again? I'm not sure what happens with the coupon to be honest, but I consider Zero a wash (though you win a token amount). For Vegas it is a different calculation, requiring more money on the zeros and reducing the value of the bet, I would definitely us it on craps there as the rules for the 12 push for Don't Pass are consistent everywhere is the same everywhere so that works regardless of any differences on the la partage rule you find in some roulette. |
Originally Posted by colerc
(Post 20103439)
So ... there are a few issues with this. First of all, all casino bets have a negative expectation (except the odds in craps). So when you put more money down on the table, you increase the amount you are expecting to give the casino. If it were possible to win by betting red, black, and 0/00 in roulette simultaneously, someone would have figured it out by now. If you do the math, you'll see that you are always losing two bets out of three, and those losses outweigh the wins on the third. (As a result, unless you have a poorly trained dealer, the casino will *always* let you place multiple bets "against" each other -- every single one of them is a winner for the house on average! There's no need to "fool" them with a second person involved.) Not true. The Casino does not like you doing this bet in the way I said as it puts the house at a massive disadvantage.
The principle is no different with Match Play. Your roulette example shows that this is roughly equivalent to just betting $100 cash on red -- if red hits, you get about $200, and if it doesn't, you get about zero. The only difference is that the casino is "giving" you that first $100 (some casinos just give you a "free bet" coupon that you don't have to match, which would be essentially the same thing). And if you are getting Match Play offers in the first place, it means you are doing plenty of other gambling, so why wimp out and try to "arbitrage" your match play offer? Just bet the Match Play on your usual game and you will leave the table, on average, with a bit more money than you would have without Match Play (or you will leave the table with no money a bit later than you would have without Match Play). It isn't wimping out, it is finding and explaining a loophole that allows you to bet almost risk free in the casino. What's more, your roulette example shows you taking away $50 on red and $50 on black if 0/00 hits ... but you are really losing $150 on red, since you also lost the value of the match play. So that really sucks. No, you are making the error of assigning a cash value to a match play coupon. It has no value until it wins. Well, perhaps it has some value... as potential, but it isn't its face value Even if you fancy yourself a card counter or have some other system which you imagine improves your odds (most likely it does not), just use the Match Plays when the count is in your favor/your "system" tells you that a red is "due" on the roulette wheel/the moon is in the seventh house and Jupiter aligns with Mars. You are suggesting that it is better to learn to card count and use it on a positive count? Firstly, card counting is not easy, secondly it is illegal in many casinos (though not in AC) but if they spot you for a counter I am pretty sure they won't be giving you any more Matchplays :) Thirdly, and most importantly, the odds of winning with a positive count are still lower than winning by arbitraging this bet. See www.wizardofodds.com for a lot more on these types of things. He has a specific article to address the point that taking counter-balancing bets always loses in the end, but I can't find it just now. Counter balancing bets alone will always lose due to house edge I agree, but the house edge didn't include the concept of matchplay coupons so they have exploits like this. That said, in theory there are "better" and "worse" ways to use Match Plays. See here: http://www.beyondcounting.com/pdfs/b...ouponsbjfo.pdf . However, most of these depend on using a Match Play for a non-even-money bet, so they don't work at the Borgata. In addition this article assumes that your coupon has lots of nasty restrictions on it (lost in case of a push, just pays even money if you get a natural in Blackjack rather than the full 3:2, can't be doubled or split in Blackjack, etc.) and in my experience Borgata is better than that -- they are as generous as you could expect them to be (ticket is kept to use again if you push, pays out fully in all Blackjack cases), so some bits of advice in that article do not apply. (That said, I am not actually sure what Borgata does about the half-back rule when a Match Play is involved. If they take half your cash and the entire coupon, then it is a terrible use of the Match Play. If they take half your cash and leave you the entire coupon, then it is an excellent use of the Match Play and BrooklynMatt's strategy actually does have a hugely positive expectation above and beyond any house edge since the "half back" rule is effectively a "75% back" rule. If they take all of your cash and leave you "half" in the form of the Match Play coupon, it's still pretty bad since $100 Match Play coupon is worth less than $100 cash.) I'm not sure about the Match play either in this case Full value? What? If you have $200 in Match Play you can print 8x $25 coupons, 4x $50 coupons, 2x $100 coupons, or 1x $200 coupon. If you prefer to bet $25 a hand, then you can use Match Play 8 times. No difference in net end result... |
Originally Posted by baccarat_king
(Post 20104142)
$25s lower the variance. Playing 8 individual bets of $25, is lower variance than two bets of $100. The house edge, remains the same, for both bets. In the very long run, they are exactly the same.
Mohegan does not status match. (but they give new players who show an AC players club card $100 in free play) They will grant VIP lounge access though, based on a strong day of play. Status is much harder to obtain at Mohegan, than Borgata Black Label or Caesars Diamond; but the lounges and overall benefits are better. Of course, there is some variation. |
As for the match play coupons at borgata, if you have higher amounts available they let you choose lower increments of the full amount available (i.e. 200 would be 4 $50 coupons), which I usually do because of the way I use them. I'm going to be at the table for a while anyway so I use them in a way that complements my other bets.
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Originally Posted by Rookie3
(Post 20110063)
As for the match play coupons at borgata, if you have higher amounts available they let you choose lower increments of the full amount available (i.e. 200 would be 4 $50 coupons), which I usually do because of the way I use them. I'm going to be at the table for a while anyway so I use them in a way that complements my other bets.
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Comp question
I just got back from a trip to the Borgata this weekend. My roommate was supposed to get our table and bottle service in Mur.Mur comped. I put it on my card in my dumb drunk state of mind because he was still at the tables and we didn't want to wait for him. He says they are going to comp it and the money should go back on my card in a week or two but we used my card for the reservation under his name. Any one have any insight whether this is correct or is he full of it? His table time was probably over 12 hours in 2 days and average hand was around 400 or higher. He lost over 14k so I don't see why they wouldn't comp it but he is not the most trust worthy guy and I don't want to get stuck footing the whole bill.
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Originally Posted by Kenrafprod
(Post 20186937)
I just got back from a trip to the Borgata this weekend. My roommate was supposed to get our table and bottle service in Mur.Mur comped. I put it on my card in my dumb drunk state of mind because he was still at the tables and we didn't want to wait for him. He says they are going to comp it and the money should go back on my card in a week or two but we used my card for the reservation under his name. Any one have any insight whether this is correct or is he full of it? His table time was probably over 12 hours in 2 days and average hand was around 400 or higher. He lost over 14k so I don't see why they wouldn't comp it but he is not the most trust worthy guy and I don't want to get stuck footing the whole bill.
Look at it like this, say that play was worth $400 in comp dollars (enough to cover the bottles unless you went a little wild) he now has the choice to use it pay that off, or spend it on anything he wants next time he is in town. They could put it back on your card, it happened to me in Vegas with my $1500 charge that they put on my card and called the Host and straightened it out, but it was my comp vs my card as opposed to your card and his comp. Just take the casino out of the equation and say: My mate made me put X on my card and promised to pay me back next week, but he is sketchy, do you think he will? A good mate will cover the charge if the casino doesn't right? |
Originally Posted by Kenrafprod
(Post 20186937)
I just got back from a trip to the Borgata this weekend. My roommate was supposed to get our table and bottle service in Mur.Mur comped. I put it on my card in my dumb drunk state of mind because he was still at the tables and we didn't want to wait for him. He says they are going to comp it and the money should go back on my card in a week or two but we used my card for the reservation under his name. Any one have any insight whether this is correct or is he full of it? His table time was probably over 12 hours in 2 days and average hand was around 400 or higher. He lost over 14k so I don't see why they wouldn't comp it but he is not the most trust worthy guy and I don't want to get stuck footing the whole bill.
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Originally Posted by Kenrafprod
(Post 20186937)
I just got back from a trip to the Borgata this weekend. My roommate was supposed to get our table and bottle service in Mur.Mur comped. I put it on my card in my dumb drunk state of mind because he was still at the tables and we didn't want to wait for him. He says they are going to comp it and the money should go back on my card in a week or two but we used my card for the reservation under his name. Any one have any insight whether this is correct or is he full of it? His table time was probably over 12 hours in 2 days and average hand was around 400 or higher. He lost over 14k so I don't see why they wouldn't comp it but he is not the most trust worthy guy and I don't want to get stuck footing the whole bill.
With that being said, if the authorization is still on your card; but the charge hasn't been settled perhaps he got it covered. In this case the authorization will just drop off. Borgata hosts are very good, in my opinion. They take care of what they promise to take care of (at the end of your trip) very quickly. They also keep their word. His play should have also gotten him a bunch of points (comp $); but of course the combination of play and loss should get him (the player) some extra discretionary comps. But, as anyone will tell you, you always charge back to the room folio; and then settle (discuss/beg/argue) for items to be picked up (by your host) at the end of your trip. |
Originally Posted by brooklynmatt
(Post 20109185)
Not true. The Casino does not like you doing this bet in the way I said as it puts the house at a massive disadvantage.
As a side note, I noticed in your comments you complained that the win/loss should not reflect tips for the dealer. That is wrong. A played tip for the dealer is a win for you; you are playing that tip, not the dealer. So pay your taxes right - and if you don't, just know that defense won't work if you get audited by the IRS. :)
Originally Posted by Kenrafprod
(Post 20186937)
I just got back from a trip to the Borgata this weekend. My roommate was supposed to get our table and bottle service in Mur.Mur comped. I put it on my card in my dumb drunk state of mind because he was still at the tables and we didn't want to wait for him. He says they are going to comp it and the money should go back on my card in a week or two but we used my card for the reservation under his name. Any one have any insight whether this is correct or is he full of it? His table time was probably over 12 hours in 2 days and average hand was around 400 or higher. He lost over 14k so I don't see why they wouldn't comp it but he is not the most trust worthy guy and I don't want to get stuck footing the whole bill.
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