First-timer questions
Feb 26, 2009, 6:57 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2004
Programs: aa co
Posts: 209
First-timer questions
I have a few questions that I haven't seen answered so I thought I'd post them all in one thread. Please keep in mind we are very much budget travelers.
Mrs. DennyO and I are going to France for the very first time. We arrive at CDG at 0730. I figure we'll get into Paris about 0930 (realistic?) and most hotel check-ins are 1400. Naturally, we'd like to do something in between but will probably be somewhat tired. Whatever we do, we don't want to be hauling around our luggage for 4-5 hours. If we go straight to the hotel, could we leave the bags until check-in? How about taking the RER into town; are there lockers available?
The Segway tours look like fun and a good way to get oriented to the city (although expensive). Has anyone here done them? Would we be too tired to enjoy them, i.e. should we take a tour bus?
Our plan is to spend the first day in Paris, then two in Rouen/Giverny, then two in Burgundy/Dijon, then four in Paris. I have seen some disparaging comments about Dijon here, but I was looking forward to visiting (and sampling) some wineries. Are there alternatives you would suggest?
The trip by train for two (2d class) works out to almost the same cost as renting a car. Advantages to train: don't have to drive, can't get lost, and it seems more "authentically" European. Advantages to car: flexibility on when to leave and where to stay (I saw a nice-looking B&B outside Dijon), and freedom to stop at any small town that suits our fancy as we travel. Am I missing anything?
By the way, my reading of French is passable, I think I can speak it OK but I have concerns about oral comprehension. A major goal of mine is to improve my French.
Finally, we enjoy taking pictures with our camera and can think of no better place to do so. Does going around Paris with a camera around the neck mark us too much as tourists, an invitation to pickpockets? Do many people go around town with backpacks?
Thanks
And thanks to Flyer talk: our plane tickets were "purchased" with miles.
Mrs. DennyO and I are going to France for the very first time. We arrive at CDG at 0730. I figure we'll get into Paris about 0930 (realistic?) and most hotel check-ins are 1400. Naturally, we'd like to do something in between but will probably be somewhat tired. Whatever we do, we don't want to be hauling around our luggage for 4-5 hours. If we go straight to the hotel, could we leave the bags until check-in? How about taking the RER into town; are there lockers available?
The Segway tours look like fun and a good way to get oriented to the city (although expensive). Has anyone here done them? Would we be too tired to enjoy them, i.e. should we take a tour bus?
Our plan is to spend the first day in Paris, then two in Rouen/Giverny, then two in Burgundy/Dijon, then four in Paris. I have seen some disparaging comments about Dijon here, but I was looking forward to visiting (and sampling) some wineries. Are there alternatives you would suggest?
The trip by train for two (2d class) works out to almost the same cost as renting a car. Advantages to train: don't have to drive, can't get lost, and it seems more "authentically" European. Advantages to car: flexibility on when to leave and where to stay (I saw a nice-looking B&B outside Dijon), and freedom to stop at any small town that suits our fancy as we travel. Am I missing anything?
By the way, my reading of French is passable, I think I can speak it OK but I have concerns about oral comprehension. A major goal of mine is to improve my French.
Finally, we enjoy taking pictures with our camera and can think of no better place to do so. Does going around Paris with a camera around the neck mark us too much as tourists, an invitation to pickpockets? Do many people go around town with backpacks?
Thanks
And thanks to Flyer talk: our plane tickets were "purchased" with miles.
Feb 26, 2009, 12:33 pm
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ORD
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 16,900
All good questions - my answers are in bold.
I have a few questions that I haven't seen answered so I thought I'd post them all in one thread. Please keep in mind we are very much budget travelers.
Mrs. DennyO and I are going to France for the very first time. We arrive at CDG at 0730. I figure we'll get into Paris about 0930 (realistic?) and most hotel check-ins are 1400. Naturally, we'd like to do something in between but will probably be somewhat tired. Whatever we do, we don't want to be hauling around our luggage for 4-5 hours. If we go straight to the hotel, could we leave the bags until check-in? How about taking the RER into town; are there lockers available?
[I]9:30 sounds realistic by cab, maybe a bit longer by RER since you need to wait for the next train, etc. Depending on where your hotel is, the RER can be very convenient, if not take a cab. The RER ticket machines at CDG DO take non-French credit cards. If money is truly an issue you can take the RER into Gare du Nord and then a cab from there, but by that point you really aren't saving much if you have two people. If you do go the RER route, I'd recommend buying your return tickets (if needed) at the same time, they don't "go bad" and it can be difficult to find a machine that takes credit cards or an open window without a long line in central Paris, better to just buy them all in a single transaction.
I know of no left luggage in the RER, but I'd just go to the hotel and drop the bags. They will certainly hold them for you, and you may find that a room is actualy available for you immediately. Not specifically RER, but I believe there is left luggage at Gare du Nord.[/I]
The Segway tours look like fun and a good way to get oriented to the city (although expensive). Has anyone here done them? Would we be too tired to enjoy them, i.e. should we take a tour bus?
Haven't done the Segway, but if you want a relaxing intro to Paris I'd to the river cruise thing. It seems sort of trite, but you do get a good overview of things and the views are great.
Our plan is to spend the first day in Paris, then two in Rouen/Giverny, then two in Burgundy/Dijon, then four in Paris. I have seen some disparaging comments about Dijon here, but I was looking forward to visiting (and sampling) some wineries. Are there alternatives you would suggest?
Haven't been to Dijon. For a taste of something different we like Strasbourg, which with the high-speed train in place is now a much faster journey.
The trip by train for two (2d class) works out to almost the same cost as renting a car. Advantages to train: don't have to drive, can't get lost, and it seems more "authentically" European. Advantages to car: flexibility on when to leave and where to stay (I saw a nice-looking B&B outside Dijon), and freedom to stop at any small town that suits our fancy as we travel. Am I missing anything?
My only advise is that if you want a car you might want to pick a rental place that is easy to get to my metro but on the outskirts of Paris in the direction you're traveling. I wouldn't want to negotiate Paris itself by car.
By the way, my reading of French is passable, I think I can speak it OK but I have concerns about oral comprehension. A major goal of mine is to improve my French.
You'll be fine. A useful phrase to learn is "Pardon me, but I'm a stupid American (or whatever) and don't speak much French, can you help me."
Finally, we enjoy taking pictures with our camera and can think of no better place to do so. Does going around Paris with a camera around the neck mark us too much as tourists, an invitation to pickpockets? Do many people go around town with backpacks?
On my last trip I carried a messenger bag which held the camera, a smallish guidebook, gloves and hat (it was cold) and maps with ease. It was also handy for holding all those chocolates and rotisserie chickens we bought (see previous thread) and I never felt out of place.
Thanks
And thanks to Flyer talk: our plane tickets were "purchased" with miles. ^
Mrs. DennyO and I are going to France for the very first time. We arrive at CDG at 0730. I figure we'll get into Paris about 0930 (realistic?) and most hotel check-ins are 1400. Naturally, we'd like to do something in between but will probably be somewhat tired. Whatever we do, we don't want to be hauling around our luggage for 4-5 hours. If we go straight to the hotel, could we leave the bags until check-in? How about taking the RER into town; are there lockers available?
[I]9:30 sounds realistic by cab, maybe a bit longer by RER since you need to wait for the next train, etc. Depending on where your hotel is, the RER can be very convenient, if not take a cab. The RER ticket machines at CDG DO take non-French credit cards. If money is truly an issue you can take the RER into Gare du Nord and then a cab from there, but by that point you really aren't saving much if you have two people. If you do go the RER route, I'd recommend buying your return tickets (if needed) at the same time, they don't "go bad" and it can be difficult to find a machine that takes credit cards or an open window without a long line in central Paris, better to just buy them all in a single transaction.
I know of no left luggage in the RER, but I'd just go to the hotel and drop the bags. They will certainly hold them for you, and you may find that a room is actualy available for you immediately. Not specifically RER, but I believe there is left luggage at Gare du Nord.[/I]
The Segway tours look like fun and a good way to get oriented to the city (although expensive). Has anyone here done them? Would we be too tired to enjoy them, i.e. should we take a tour bus?
Haven't done the Segway, but if you want a relaxing intro to Paris I'd to the river cruise thing. It seems sort of trite, but you do get a good overview of things and the views are great.
Our plan is to spend the first day in Paris, then two in Rouen/Giverny, then two in Burgundy/Dijon, then four in Paris. I have seen some disparaging comments about Dijon here, but I was looking forward to visiting (and sampling) some wineries. Are there alternatives you would suggest?
Haven't been to Dijon. For a taste of something different we like Strasbourg, which with the high-speed train in place is now a much faster journey.
The trip by train for two (2d class) works out to almost the same cost as renting a car. Advantages to train: don't have to drive, can't get lost, and it seems more "authentically" European. Advantages to car: flexibility on when to leave and where to stay (I saw a nice-looking B&B outside Dijon), and freedom to stop at any small town that suits our fancy as we travel. Am I missing anything?
My only advise is that if you want a car you might want to pick a rental place that is easy to get to my metro but on the outskirts of Paris in the direction you're traveling. I wouldn't want to negotiate Paris itself by car.
By the way, my reading of French is passable, I think I can speak it OK but I have concerns about oral comprehension. A major goal of mine is to improve my French.
You'll be fine. A useful phrase to learn is "Pardon me, but I'm a stupid American (or whatever) and don't speak much French, can you help me."
Finally, we enjoy taking pictures with our camera and can think of no better place to do so. Does going around Paris with a camera around the neck mark us too much as tourists, an invitation to pickpockets? Do many people go around town with backpacks?
On my last trip I carried a messenger bag which held the camera, a smallish guidebook, gloves and hat (it was cold) and maps with ease. It was also handy for holding all those chocolates and rotisserie chickens we bought (see previous thread) and I never felt out of place.
Thanks
And thanks to Flyer talk: our plane tickets were "purchased" with miles. ^
Feb 26, 2009, 2:20 pm
#3
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Deep in the heart of...DL country.
Programs: DL GM
Posts: 3,838
You may get into Paris by 9:30 if your flight is on time, there aren't too many other flights arriving at the same time (and needing to go through immigration), and you don't have a long wait for your luggage. I think 10:30 is more realistic.
Personally, I would not plan to drive to Rouen and Dijon as they are in opposite directions and you'll have to get around Paris to go from one to the other. Not a treat. I would do one of the following:
1. Either take the TGV to Lyon, a terrific city with interesting sights and wonderful food, and pick up a car there for driving in Burgundy. (And, if you want, you could take the TGV directly from CDG on the day of your arrival and save all your time in Paris for the end of your trip.)
OR
2. Go to Rouen/Giverny as planned and then drive down into the Loire (beautiful countryside, lots of wineries and interesting chateaux to visit- Chenonceau is my fave) and use Orleans, Tours or Angers as a base.
It depends on what kinds of wine you like and how much driving you want to do. My "rule" for estimating driving time in France is: If you're driving on an "A" route, allow slightly longer than in US (because of the unfamiliar territory, signs, etc.); on an "N" road, allow twice the time; and on anything smaller, allow three times the time.
Personally, I would not plan to drive to Rouen and Dijon as they are in opposite directions and you'll have to get around Paris to go from one to the other. Not a treat. I would do one of the following:
1. Either take the TGV to Lyon, a terrific city with interesting sights and wonderful food, and pick up a car there for driving in Burgundy. (And, if you want, you could take the TGV directly from CDG on the day of your arrival and save all your time in Paris for the end of your trip.)
OR
2. Go to Rouen/Giverny as planned and then drive down into the Loire (beautiful countryside, lots of wineries and interesting chateaux to visit- Chenonceau is my fave) and use Orleans, Tours or Angers as a base.
It depends on what kinds of wine you like and how much driving you want to do. My "rule" for estimating driving time in France is: If you're driving on an "A" route, allow slightly longer than in US (because of the unfamiliar territory, signs, etc.); on an "N" road, allow twice the time; and on anything smaller, allow three times the time.
Feb 27, 2009, 3:09 pm
#4
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 975
Personally I'd suggest using the rail system for getting about in France, as it is quite hard to find parking space in town centres and sometimes it's hard to get into the centre from the suburbs, especially if you haven't got a satnav!
If you decide to travel by car, www.viamichelin.fr is very helpful not only for the minutiae of journey planning, but also for advice as regards timings, petrol consumption and toll charges.
I would suggest using the HOHO bus service or a half or full day tour from Paris Travel Service as a good introduction to the city, and also a boat trip which gives you a whole new perspective of the busy inner city. If you like going up things, the Eiffel Tower and the Arc de Triomphe are the old favourites, but I strongly suggest going up the Arche de la Défense and the Montparnasse Tower too. The Montparnasse Tower does have an open roof terrace, but it also has a spectacular glassed in storey so you don't get wet, and a reasonably priced café and good loos too!
If you'd like details of a nice day out - or better an overnight stay - in Strasbourg, please pm me and I'll be happy to make suggestions.
If you decide to travel by car, www.viamichelin.fr is very helpful not only for the minutiae of journey planning, but also for advice as regards timings, petrol consumption and toll charges.
I would suggest using the HOHO bus service or a half or full day tour from Paris Travel Service as a good introduction to the city, and also a boat trip which gives you a whole new perspective of the busy inner city. If you like going up things, the Eiffel Tower and the Arc de Triomphe are the old favourites, but I strongly suggest going up the Arche de la Défense and the Montparnasse Tower too. The Montparnasse Tower does have an open roof terrace, but it also has a spectacular glassed in storey so you don't get wet, and a reasonably priced café and good loos too!
If you'd like details of a nice day out - or better an overnight stay - in Strasbourg, please pm me and I'll be happy to make suggestions.
Feb 27, 2009, 3:38 pm
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ORD
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 16,900
Personally I'd suggest using the rail system for getting about in France, as it is quite hard to find parking space in town centres and sometimes it's hard to get into the centre from the suburbs, especially if you haven't got a satnav!
If you decide to travel by car, www.viamichelin.fr is very helpful not only for the minutiae of journey planning, but also for advice as regards timings, petrol consumption and toll charges.
I would suggest using the HOHO bus service or a half or full day tour from Paris Travel Service as a good introduction to the city, and also a boat trip which gives you a whole new perspective of the busy inner city. If you like going up things, the Eiffel Tower and the Arc de Triomphe are the old favourites, but I strongly suggest going up the Arche de la Défense and the Montparnasse Tower too. The Montparnasse Tower does have an open roof terrace, but it also has a spectacular glassed in storey so you don't get wet, and a reasonably priced café and good loos too!
If you'd like details of a nice day out - or better an overnight stay - in Strasbourg, please pm me and I'll be happy to make suggestions.
If you decide to travel by car, www.viamichelin.fr is very helpful not only for the minutiae of journey planning, but also for advice as regards timings, petrol consumption and toll charges.
I would suggest using the HOHO bus service or a half or full day tour from Paris Travel Service as a good introduction to the city, and also a boat trip which gives you a whole new perspective of the busy inner city. If you like going up things, the Eiffel Tower and the Arc de Triomphe are the old favourites, but I strongly suggest going up the Arche de la Défense and the Montparnasse Tower too. The Montparnasse Tower does have an open roof terrace, but it also has a spectacular glassed in storey so you don't get wet, and a reasonably priced café and good loos too!
If you'd like details of a nice day out - or better an overnight stay - in Strasbourg, please pm me and I'll be happy to make suggestions.
Feb 28, 2009, 8:12 am
#6
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Oceanside, CA
Programs: LT AAdvantage Gold
Posts: 539
You've gotten some very good advice. Congratulations on your first trip.
Depending on the time of year you may get your room when you arrive. We've been 6 times and got the room right away 4. They'll let you leave your bag at the hotel.
We are usually too wiped out (it's a long flight from here) to attempt much the first day.
One caveat about the train - the TGV (train ŕ grande vitesse or train of great speed) is not all that luggage-friendly, so traveling as light as possible will make it easier. It's great fun, though. I wish we had a system like that.
Be sure to get a good guide book. Some folks here dump on Rick Steves, but his book is a good intro for a first time visitor. You can find some good hotel discounts in his Paris book, so we get it just for that.
Find an ATM at the airport and get some euros. Maybe €300 to start.
I would not take the RER on a first visit to Paris. I'd take a taxi. It will cost maybe €45 to €60 depending on traffic and how much luggage you have and other mysterious factors.
Whether or not you have a backpack or a camera around your neck, everyone will know you are a tourist. It's the shoes, I believe, or the haircut, or just the attitude. In my case, I'm too tall, I have an American haircut, and while I have Italian shoes, they're brown, and nobody wears brown shoes. Jeans are very popular, but they are just a little different.
If you are approached by some gypsies saying 'doo you speeek eeengleesh' tell them very firmly to go away. Preferably in German. If someone picks up a gold ring off ground in front of you and holds it up, do the same.
All hotels have safes in the room in my experience.
Bon voyage!
Depending on the time of year you may get your room when you arrive. We've been 6 times and got the room right away 4. They'll let you leave your bag at the hotel.
We are usually too wiped out (it's a long flight from here) to attempt much the first day.
One caveat about the train - the TGV (train ŕ grande vitesse or train of great speed) is not all that luggage-friendly, so traveling as light as possible will make it easier. It's great fun, though. I wish we had a system like that.
Be sure to get a good guide book. Some folks here dump on Rick Steves, but his book is a good intro for a first time visitor. You can find some good hotel discounts in his Paris book, so we get it just for that.
Find an ATM at the airport and get some euros. Maybe €300 to start.
I would not take the RER on a first visit to Paris. I'd take a taxi. It will cost maybe €45 to €60 depending on traffic and how much luggage you have and other mysterious factors.
Whether or not you have a backpack or a camera around your neck, everyone will know you are a tourist. It's the shoes, I believe, or the haircut, or just the attitude. In my case, I'm too tall, I have an American haircut, and while I have Italian shoes, they're brown, and nobody wears brown shoes. Jeans are very popular, but they are just a little different.
If you are approached by some gypsies saying 'doo you speeek eeengleesh' tell them very firmly to go away. Preferably in German. If someone picks up a gold ring off ground in front of you and holds it up, do the same.
All hotels have safes in the room in my experience.
Bon voyage!
Feb 28, 2009, 8:06 pm
#7
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: About 45 miles NW of MCO
Programs: Acapulco - Gold, Panama - Red, Timothy Leary 8 Mile High Club
Posts: 29,233
I think you'll find most hotels willing to hold luggage if you arrive before your room is ready. I wouldn't plan much for a first day after an overnight TATL - are you flying coach? If Business, maybe you'll be better rested. A walk, a meal, an untaxing visit should be sufficient. Maybe walk along the Seine and see Notre Dame? Have a glass of wine and an early bedtime then wake up the next morning ready for breakfast and heavy duty touring.
Mar 2, 2009, 9:46 pm
#8
In memoriam
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Near Jacksonville FL
Posts: 3,987
I haven't dealt with a travel budget for a while - but I will put on my thinking cap. It doesn't make sense to me at all to go into Paris for one day - then leave Paris - and then return for 4 days. Either spend your Paris time at the beginning - or the end. Don't split it up.
I don't know how old you are. When my husband and I were younger - we could do a red-eye from the east coast of the US - pick up a car at the airport - and then drive 2-3 hours to get to wherever we wanted to go. We'd be tired - but we'd arrive in the early afternoon - take a nap - go for drinks/dinner - and then be adjusted time-wise the next day. We are over 60 now - and can't do this anymore. When we arrive on a red-eye flight - we are ready to go to sleep for a few hours. In light of your budget - I'd avoid a red eye arrival booking first day you arrive (where you can check in early by paying for the previous night) - and go to your first destination outside Paris from CDG. You'll be really tired - but your room will be ready for you to crash for a few hours until dinner (and you can freshen up too).
I would definitely rent a car. Driving in France isn't difficult - and a car gives you a lot of flexibility. Get one with a GPS. We do that everywhere when we rent a car these days. It's well worth the few dollars extra unless you really like to buy and read maps.
I cannot imagine riding a Segway in Paris (I rode one once in a museum demo). There is simply too much vehicle traffic in the streets - and pedestrian traffic on most sidewalks. Plus - Paris is the kind of city where you want to poke around - explore the side streets and byways. At a leisurely pace. What you save on the Segway - you can spend on the GPS for the car.
All of France is "wine country". I suggest buying a copy of the Green Michelin Guide (sightseeing) - and see which areas look amusing to you. No matter where you go - you will be able to find wineries and good local wines. FWIW - I've read that Giverny is a very crowded and not that wonderful a tourist destination. Perhaps not worth the trouble. Also pick up a copy of the Red Michelin Guide (hotels and restaurants). Note that in France - as in most of Europe - you will probably pay more than you are used to paying in the US for rooms and meals because of the lack of standardized and relatively inexpensive chain hotels and restaurants you find here.
I think for a first trip I would recommend a trip to the Loire - and perhaps another area that interests you for a particular reason (like Normandy for WWII stuff - the Dordogne for great food - etc.). Look at the Green Guide for 3 star (worthy of a trip) destinations. If you are traveling in high season - between April and October - make reservations. A lot of nice places don't have many available rooms - and you don't want to show up in a small town only to be told there are no rooms available. And I would definitely recommend having at least one meal in a higher end (2 or preferably 3 star Michelin) restaurant. Outside of Paris - where the food is still wonderful - but the prices are less expensive.
If you want to brush up on your conversational French before your trip - get some Pimsleur stuff (many levels - buy the one that suits your current abilities best - some Ebay stores have the best prices).
I am not sure why people care that locals know they're tourists. I live in a Florida golf resort community. And it's always easy to tell who the tourists are. They're the ones with the Scottish accents and the bad sunburns
. On the other hand - it is always great - no matter where you go - to respect a country enough to speak at least a little of its language and learn a little of its culture and its customs. And in Paris - like many major cities in many countries - you never want to put valuables like wallets in places like pockets where they can picked. I always carry my husband's wallet in my purse - which is always slung across my arm along my front - not my back. As for backpacks - I have a rather chic one I like a lot that I bought in Japan. A place for sweaters - guide books - umbrellas - etc. If you have to carry a lot of stuff around a city - a backpack is as good a place to stow your stuff as any.
The gold ring thing is something you will undoubtedly encounter in Paris - and you just have to walk away. One problem with Americans is they're afraid to seem rude (but it is very justified in this case).
Don't be afraid to explore - and have a great trip, Robyn
I don't know how old you are. When my husband and I were younger - we could do a red-eye from the east coast of the US - pick up a car at the airport - and then drive 2-3 hours to get to wherever we wanted to go. We'd be tired - but we'd arrive in the early afternoon - take a nap - go for drinks/dinner - and then be adjusted time-wise the next day. We are over 60 now - and can't do this anymore. When we arrive on a red-eye flight - we are ready to go to sleep for a few hours. In light of your budget - I'd avoid a red eye arrival booking first day you arrive (where you can check in early by paying for the previous night) - and go to your first destination outside Paris from CDG. You'll be really tired - but your room will be ready for you to crash for a few hours until dinner (and you can freshen up too).
I would definitely rent a car. Driving in France isn't difficult - and a car gives you a lot of flexibility. Get one with a GPS. We do that everywhere when we rent a car these days. It's well worth the few dollars extra unless you really like to buy and read maps.
I cannot imagine riding a Segway in Paris (I rode one once in a museum demo). There is simply too much vehicle traffic in the streets - and pedestrian traffic on most sidewalks. Plus - Paris is the kind of city where you want to poke around - explore the side streets and byways. At a leisurely pace. What you save on the Segway - you can spend on the GPS for the car.
All of France is "wine country". I suggest buying a copy of the Green Michelin Guide (sightseeing) - and see which areas look amusing to you. No matter where you go - you will be able to find wineries and good local wines. FWIW - I've read that Giverny is a very crowded and not that wonderful a tourist destination. Perhaps not worth the trouble. Also pick up a copy of the Red Michelin Guide (hotels and restaurants). Note that in France - as in most of Europe - you will probably pay more than you are used to paying in the US for rooms and meals because of the lack of standardized and relatively inexpensive chain hotels and restaurants you find here.
I think for a first trip I would recommend a trip to the Loire - and perhaps another area that interests you for a particular reason (like Normandy for WWII stuff - the Dordogne for great food - etc.). Look at the Green Guide for 3 star (worthy of a trip) destinations. If you are traveling in high season - between April and October - make reservations. A lot of nice places don't have many available rooms - and you don't want to show up in a small town only to be told there are no rooms available. And I would definitely recommend having at least one meal in a higher end (2 or preferably 3 star Michelin) restaurant. Outside of Paris - where the food is still wonderful - but the prices are less expensive.
If you want to brush up on your conversational French before your trip - get some Pimsleur stuff (many levels - buy the one that suits your current abilities best - some Ebay stores have the best prices).
I am not sure why people care that locals know they're tourists. I live in a Florida golf resort community. And it's always easy to tell who the tourists are. They're the ones with the Scottish accents and the bad sunburns
. On the other hand - it is always great - no matter where you go - to respect a country enough to speak at least a little of its language and learn a little of its culture and its customs. And in Paris - like many major cities in many countries - you never want to put valuables like wallets in places like pockets where they can picked. I always carry my husband's wallet in my purse - which is always slung across my arm along my front - not my back. As for backpacks - I have a rather chic one I like a lot that I bought in Japan. A place for sweaters - guide books - umbrellas - etc. If you have to carry a lot of stuff around a city - a backpack is as good a place to stow your stuff as any.The gold ring thing is something you will undoubtedly encounter in Paris - and you just have to walk away. One problem with Americans is they're afraid to seem rude (but it is very justified in this case).
Don't be afraid to explore - and have a great trip, Robyn
Mar 3, 2009, 7:18 am
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2004
Programs: aa co
Posts: 209
Huge thanks ...
for all the helpful replies I've received already. Keep'em coming.
To clarify a few things: I have only been abroad once, to Ireland. In all the Flyertalk messages I read about Ireland, or anything else I read, I never saw the word "pickpocket." It seems like every thread on France at least mentions the risk of becoming a crime victim. That is why I asked about the camera, backpack and about looking like tourists. But as robyng and jp said, it will probably be impossible not to look like a tourist. It's just a matter of returning with the same stuff I leave with each morning. You can imagine how we'd feel if we had our camera or wallets stolen.
I should also say that Giverny is non-negotiable. This whole thing started in part because my wife and I had a discussion (a la "The Bucket List") about what would you really like to do before you die. She said go to Giverny. I realize it can be swarmed with tourists, but there is no way we are going to France and not going there. My plan is to spend the night in a B&B there and be at Monet's garden when it opens to minimize the number of Americans coming by bus for the day that we have to deal with.
I also did want to get a taste of the French countryside. So far as Burgundy is concerned, I thought a winery tour/tasting would be great and you can't get any more famous for wine than Burgundy. I was also considering Alsace which I have heard is really great for hiking, which we also enjoy, so I was interested to see the plugs for Strasbourg. I hadn't thought about the Loire, but you have really given me more things to think about.
Until robyng posted, it seemed everyone thought the train would be the way to go. A third alternative I am considering: take the train to Rouen/Giverny and return to Paris. Then rent a car and drive to Burgundy (perhaps Beaune instead of Dijon), or the Loire for that matter. We could drive through some small towns. Then return the car to Paris for the remainder. If we were to take the train from Giverny to Dijon, we would have to change stations (St. Lazare to Lyon) in Paris anyway, so I figure we could rent a car at St. Lazare and drive around Paris. I have no intention of driving in Paris proper. That may actually be the most expensive as it is almost as much to rent a car for two days as four.
During the day, do people carry their passports with them, in case of emergency, or leave them at the hotel for security?
About the segways --
When at a new city, it can be fun to take a half day tour to get oriented, and get a taste of it all. We have done that by bus in Chicago and DC, for example. On tripadvisor, I had seen some very positive comments about the segway tour, and I thought it would be a bit unique. The river cruise sounds great too, of course.
So that may give more background on what we are hoping to accomplish. Thanks again.
To clarify a few things: I have only been abroad once, to Ireland. In all the Flyertalk messages I read about Ireland, or anything else I read, I never saw the word "pickpocket." It seems like every thread on France at least mentions the risk of becoming a crime victim. That is why I asked about the camera, backpack and about looking like tourists. But as robyng and jp said, it will probably be impossible not to look like a tourist. It's just a matter of returning with the same stuff I leave with each morning. You can imagine how we'd feel if we had our camera or wallets stolen.
I should also say that Giverny is non-negotiable. This whole thing started in part because my wife and I had a discussion (a la "The Bucket List") about what would you really like to do before you die. She said go to Giverny. I realize it can be swarmed with tourists, but there is no way we are going to France and not going there. My plan is to spend the night in a B&B there and be at Monet's garden when it opens to minimize the number of Americans coming by bus for the day that we have to deal with.
I also did want to get a taste of the French countryside. So far as Burgundy is concerned, I thought a winery tour/tasting would be great and you can't get any more famous for wine than Burgundy. I was also considering Alsace which I have heard is really great for hiking, which we also enjoy, so I was interested to see the plugs for Strasbourg. I hadn't thought about the Loire, but you have really given me more things to think about.
Until robyng posted, it seemed everyone thought the train would be the way to go. A third alternative I am considering: take the train to Rouen/Giverny and return to Paris. Then rent a car and drive to Burgundy (perhaps Beaune instead of Dijon), or the Loire for that matter. We could drive through some small towns. Then return the car to Paris for the remainder. If we were to take the train from Giverny to Dijon, we would have to change stations (St. Lazare to Lyon) in Paris anyway, so I figure we could rent a car at St. Lazare and drive around Paris. I have no intention of driving in Paris proper. That may actually be the most expensive as it is almost as much to rent a car for two days as four.
During the day, do people carry their passports with them, in case of emergency, or leave them at the hotel for security?
About the segways --
When at a new city, it can be fun to take a half day tour to get oriented, and get a taste of it all. We have done that by bus in Chicago and DC, for example. On tripadvisor, I had seen some very positive comments about the segway tour, and I thought it would be a bit unique. The river cruise sounds great too, of course.
So that may give more background on what we are hoping to accomplish. Thanks again.
Last edited by DennyO; Mar 3, 2009 at 10:44 am
Mar 3, 2009, 8:56 am
#10
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ORD
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 16,900
Comments again in bold
for all the helpful replies I've received already. Keep'em coming.
To clarify a few things: I have only been abroad once, to Ireland. In all the Flyertalk messages I read about Ireland, or anything else I read, I never saw the word "pickpocket." It seems like every thread on France at least mentions the risk of becoming a crime victim. That is why I asked about the camera, backpack and about looking like tourists. But as robyng and jp said, it will probably be impossible not to look like a tourist. It's just a matter of returning with the same stuff I leave with each morning. You can imagine how we'd feel if we had our camera or wallets stolen.
How comfortable are you in big cities, generally? I haven't felt any less safe in Paris than anywhere else, although there are pockets where you need to be especially vigilant - CDG for sure, the plaza in front of Notre Dame will be swimming with people, we wnet up to the Flea market and felt unsafe the entire time and especially walking from the Metro stop to the market. Metro stops can be packed at certain times of day, as will the trains to the point where all you can do is stand there with your arms at your side. But, wandering around the 5th/6th for example, I've never felt unsafe. Just use normal city precautions.
I should also say that Giverny is non-negotiable. This whole thing started in part because my wife and I had a discussion (a la "The Bucket List") about what would you really like to do before you die. She said go to Giverny. I realize it can be swarmed with tourists, but there is no way we are going to France and not going there. My plan is to spend the night in a B&B there and be at Monet's garden when it opens to minimize the number of Americans coming by bus for the day that we have to deal with.
Staying at a B&B in Giverny could be wonderful, so go for it if you want to. It is, however, a fairly easy day trip from Paris as well, 45-60 minutes by train and then a bit of a hike from the station (people recommend renting bikes as a fun way. This site (that I found by happenstance and can't vouch for) has lots of comments from people who've done just that:
http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel...erny-BR-1.html
I also did want to get a taste of the French countryside. So far as Burgundy is concerned, I thought a winery tour/tasting would be great and you can't get any more famous for wine then Burgundy. I was also considering Alsace which I have heard is really great for hiking, which we also enjoy, so I was interested to see the plugs for Strasbourg. I hadn't thought about the Loire, but you have really given me more things to think about.
Have you thought about Reims and then Strasbourgh/Alsace. I agree that the 1 day in Paris at the beginning of the trip is a waste. Reims is East of Paris beyond CDG and about a 90 minute drive (maps.google says 93) and also, I believe (too lazy to check right now) on the same high-speed train line that stops at CDG. You could rent a car at CDG and be right on the highway immediately (easy driving) or take the train to Reims and then rent a car from there. This is Champange county, of course. From there, you're in the right direction for Strasbourgh where I would spend a day, but probably not a night and instead head south in the mid-afternoon for a stay in Alsace. Strasbourgh is also fairly easy for driving, and there is a well-signposted carpark that puts you right under a main plaza within easy walking distance of the catherdal, etc. I think of Alsace, since you mention hiking. It is not well-known and I sort of stumbled across it, but there is an amazing hiking trail called something like the "Route du Vin" that goes through the vineyard sort of up and over the hills from little village to little village.
update: I was incorrect, the "Route du Vin" is the general driving route past all the vineyards. I was thinking of "Sentier viticole des Grands Crus". This page (in English) gives a good overview - and spectacular picture:
http://andynashnetwork.blogspot.com/...-bennwihr.html
Like I said, information is hard to find, and I also found some signposts to be missing - all part of the fun. I actually stumbled across the trail when I saw one of the signs right outside the driveway of our country Inn and I just started walking one afternoon.
Don't miss Colmar, which is wonderful, and since you haven't traveled much you might want to consider a quick trip to Freiburg just across the border in Germany, another fun place. From Alsace you could either drop the car in Strasbourgh and take the train back to Paris, or it might be cheaper to just bring the car back to CDG. You REALLY don't want to deal with a car in Paris itself.
During the day, do people carry their passports with them, in case of emergency, or leave them at the hotel for security?
You will get different opinions here. I used to always take my passport with me, and worried about it all day. Now I just leave it in the room and haven't ever needed it for anything. But there are reports of random police ID checks - I've never encountered one. Random shops will ask for it when using a US credit card (never had it in Paris, however) but my Driver's License satisfied them.
About the segways --
When at a new city, it can be fun to take a half day tour to get oriented, and get a taste of it all. We have done that by bus in Chicago and DC, for example. On tripadvisor, I had seen some very positive comments about the segway tour, and I thought it would be a bit unique. The river cruise sounds great too, of course.
So that may give more background on what we are hoping to accomplish. Thanks again.
To clarify a few things: I have only been abroad once, to Ireland. In all the Flyertalk messages I read about Ireland, or anything else I read, I never saw the word "pickpocket." It seems like every thread on France at least mentions the risk of becoming a crime victim. That is why I asked about the camera, backpack and about looking like tourists. But as robyng and jp said, it will probably be impossible not to look like a tourist. It's just a matter of returning with the same stuff I leave with each morning. You can imagine how we'd feel if we had our camera or wallets stolen.
How comfortable are you in big cities, generally? I haven't felt any less safe in Paris than anywhere else, although there are pockets where you need to be especially vigilant - CDG for sure, the plaza in front of Notre Dame will be swimming with people, we wnet up to the Flea market and felt unsafe the entire time and especially walking from the Metro stop to the market. Metro stops can be packed at certain times of day, as will the trains to the point where all you can do is stand there with your arms at your side. But, wandering around the 5th/6th for example, I've never felt unsafe. Just use normal city precautions.
I should also say that Giverny is non-negotiable. This whole thing started in part because my wife and I had a discussion (a la "The Bucket List") about what would you really like to do before you die. She said go to Giverny. I realize it can be swarmed with tourists, but there is no way we are going to France and not going there. My plan is to spend the night in a B&B there and be at Monet's garden when it opens to minimize the number of Americans coming by bus for the day that we have to deal with.
Staying at a B&B in Giverny could be wonderful, so go for it if you want to. It is, however, a fairly easy day trip from Paris as well, 45-60 minutes by train and then a bit of a hike from the station (people recommend renting bikes as a fun way. This site (that I found by happenstance and can't vouch for) has lots of comments from people who've done just that:
http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel...erny-BR-1.html
I also did want to get a taste of the French countryside. So far as Burgundy is concerned, I thought a winery tour/tasting would be great and you can't get any more famous for wine then Burgundy. I was also considering Alsace which I have heard is really great for hiking, which we also enjoy, so I was interested to see the plugs for Strasbourg. I hadn't thought about the Loire, but you have really given me more things to think about.
Have you thought about Reims and then Strasbourgh/Alsace. I agree that the 1 day in Paris at the beginning of the trip is a waste. Reims is East of Paris beyond CDG and about a 90 minute drive (maps.google says 93) and also, I believe (too lazy to check right now) on the same high-speed train line that stops at CDG. You could rent a car at CDG and be right on the highway immediately (easy driving) or take the train to Reims and then rent a car from there. This is Champange county, of course. From there, you're in the right direction for Strasbourgh where I would spend a day, but probably not a night and instead head south in the mid-afternoon for a stay in Alsace. Strasbourgh is also fairly easy for driving, and there is a well-signposted carpark that puts you right under a main plaza within easy walking distance of the catherdal, etc. I think of Alsace, since you mention hiking. It is not well-known and I sort of stumbled across it, but there is an amazing hiking trail called something like the "Route du Vin" that goes through the vineyard sort of up and over the hills from little village to little village.
update: I was incorrect, the "Route du Vin" is the general driving route past all the vineyards. I was thinking of "Sentier viticole des Grands Crus". This page (in English) gives a good overview - and spectacular picture:
http://andynashnetwork.blogspot.com/...-bennwihr.html
Like I said, information is hard to find, and I also found some signposts to be missing - all part of the fun. I actually stumbled across the trail when I saw one of the signs right outside the driveway of our country Inn and I just started walking one afternoon.
Don't miss Colmar, which is wonderful, and since you haven't traveled much you might want to consider a quick trip to Freiburg just across the border in Germany, another fun place. From Alsace you could either drop the car in Strasbourgh and take the train back to Paris, or it might be cheaper to just bring the car back to CDG. You REALLY don't want to deal with a car in Paris itself.
During the day, do people carry their passports with them, in case of emergency, or leave them at the hotel for security?
You will get different opinions here. I used to always take my passport with me, and worried about it all day. Now I just leave it in the room and haven't ever needed it for anything. But there are reports of random police ID checks - I've never encountered one. Random shops will ask for it when using a US credit card (never had it in Paris, however) but my Driver's License satisfied them.
About the segways --
When at a new city, it can be fun to take a half day tour to get oriented, and get a taste of it all. We have done that by bus in Chicago and DC, for example. On tripadvisor, I had seen some very positive comments about the segway tour, and I thought it would be a bit unique. The river cruise sounds great too, of course.
So that may give more background on what we are hoping to accomplish. Thanks again.
Last edited by milepig; Mar 3, 2009 at 9:19 am
Mar 3, 2009, 9:48 am
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2004
Programs: aa co
Posts: 209
Thanks milepig.
I am totally comfortable in big cities generally. I grew up in New york although I now live in a small Maine town. I just couldn't help but be struck by how many FTers commented on the risk of thieves.
By the way, anybody, I've heard of the TGV and the RER. What is the TER?
How comfortable are you in big cities, generally?
By the way, anybody, I've heard of the TGV and the RER. What is the TER?
Mar 3, 2009, 10:04 am
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ORD
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 16,900
http://www.sncf.co.uk/default.asp
has tabs across the top that describe each service of SCNF.
In addition, the Metro and RER cover Paris and the surrounding region in much the same way that NYC and other big cities have the subway and commuter trains. Think of the Metro and the subway and the RER as the commuter rail network. The twist is that the tickets are interchangable within the main portion of Paris itself, with a Metro ticket letting you use the RER within the core of the city. For example, by far the quickest way to get from Notre Dame to the Tour Eiffel is to take the RER C instead of the Metro, using a regular Metro ticket. A twist that I don't recall seeing in most other places.
If you're interested in Alsace and want hotel/restaurant recommendations, PM me and I'll dig through my old files.
Your mention of hiking reminded me to mention the Paris Walks people (described in other threads). The people are great, and we especially enjoyed the Montmartre. http://www.paris-walks.com/ Most of the tours start/end in a very central spot, making it easy to combine with something else on your agenda.
Mar 3, 2009, 10:36 am
#13
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 8,142
I should also say that Giverny is non-negotiable. This whole thing started in part because my wife and I had a discussion (a la "The Bucket Check it out.List") about what would you really like to do before you die. She said go to Giverny. I realize it can be swarmed with tourists, but there is no way we are going to France and not going there. My plan is to spend the night in a B&B there and be at Monet's garden when it opens to minimize the number of Americans coming by bus for the day that we have to deal with.
Check it out. It's called La Musardiere.
Also, if you take the 8AM train, when you get to Giverny run, don't walk, right to the gardens before the crowds get there. Someone gave me that advice and we were the only ones at the gardens for about 5-8 minutes. We got great pictures on (and of) the bridges.
Bobette
Mar 3, 2009, 1:59 pm
#14
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: MSP
Programs: DL Gold, DL MM 8/22/16!
Posts: 2,563
Do be especially careful about getting short-changed your first day. Your head really isn't quite working right yet.
www.ricksteves.com/plan/tips/298scam.htm does a nice job outlining common tourist scams. The "slow count" seems to be frequently encountered, with the small change (and quite a bit of it) going down first and then a long pause before the last larger bill is handed over.
And after you've taken reasonable precautions, relax and have a wonderful time!
Romelle
www.ricksteves.com/plan/tips/298scam.htm does a nice job outlining common tourist scams. The "slow count" seems to be frequently encountered, with the small change (and quite a bit of it) going down first and then a long pause before the last larger bill is handed over.
And after you've taken reasonable precautions, relax and have a wonderful time!
Romelle
Mar 5, 2009, 12:45 pm
#15
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2004
Programs: aa co
Posts: 209
Thanks again for all the tips so far.
My intent at this point, is to go right from CDG to Giverny then Rouen by train. (Must go to Paris and get on train at St. Lazare). Then return to Gare St Lazare, rent a car, drive to Beaune. It looks like there is a lot to see and do right there, plenty for two days. I'll save the mustard museum for another time.
Seriously, I hope that there is another trip soon, and I can see the Loire valley and hike in Alsace. Of course, all this is subject to change, partly based on advice I get.
Speaking of change, that brings up a couple of questions specifically relating to the trains. You can buy tickets online here http://www.raileurope.com/index.html In the US, you generally walk up to a ticket booth and buy them there, or just get on the train and buy from the conductor (for a small surcharge). Other than not having to wait in line, what advantage is there to buying weeks in advance? Can you get shut out like a plane? On a related note, if you buy in advance and do not get the "flexible" ticket does that mean if you miss your train you are out of luck? If you get the flexible ticket and miss your train or want to change, do you go to a ticket booth, or just get on the next train?
Since we can't get an RER from CDG to St. Lazare, I will probably have to spring for a taxi. But can you transfer from the RER to the metro, or metro to the RER for the return trip?
I realize that the first class seats are more comfortable than second. A lot more?
Thanks again.
My intent at this point, is to go right from CDG to Giverny then Rouen by train. (Must go to Paris and get on train at St. Lazare). Then return to Gare St Lazare, rent a car, drive to Beaune. It looks like there is a lot to see and do right there, plenty for two days. I'll save the mustard museum for another time.
Seriously, I hope that there is another trip soon, and I can see the Loire valley and hike in Alsace. Of course, all this is subject to change, partly based on advice I get.Speaking of change, that brings up a couple of questions specifically relating to the trains. You can buy tickets online here http://www.raileurope.com/index.html In the US, you generally walk up to a ticket booth and buy them there, or just get on the train and buy from the conductor (for a small surcharge). Other than not having to wait in line, what advantage is there to buying weeks in advance? Can you get shut out like a plane? On a related note, if you buy in advance and do not get the "flexible" ticket does that mean if you miss your train you are out of luck? If you get the flexible ticket and miss your train or want to change, do you go to a ticket booth, or just get on the next train?
Since we can't get an RER from CDG to St. Lazare, I will probably have to spring for a taxi. But can you transfer from the RER to the metro, or metro to the RER for the return trip?
I realize that the first class seats are more comfortable than second. A lot more?
Thanks again.
