Ivan Grozny

Took Mrs G to Heathrow T3 for a flight today.
Arrived at baggage drop with about 2-and-a-half hours to spare
No queue!
Quick service etc.^
But flight took off over an hour late.
Any clues?
Heathrow probs? or Finnair probs? (or related to Spanish bombing?)

(officially AY 0840 was 51 minutes late departing, and is expected 38 minutes late into Helsinki - according to the Finnair website)

onobond

Admittingly not informed on correct reason for delay, my qualified guess would put LHR air congestion top on the list of suspects.

BD1959

According to FlightStats the inbound AY839 was 20mins late landing (on Rwy as opposed to Gate arrival) - that can easily blow out if they have to wait for a Gate, so miss scheduled departure slot etc etc.

BD

Ivan Grozny

Thanks muchly.^
I think that explains it nicely.
What is Finnair's timing usually like into/out of Heathrow?
(Good job Mrs G had a good couple of hours at Helsinki to make the transfer to her next flight - we luckily turned down the ticket with only a 50 minute connection time!)
What happens if Mrs G had missed her connection (next Finnair plane going that way (HEL-SVX) is in a couple of days!!)?
Coming back, there is a one hours transfer time at HEL - but with many flights a day HEL-LHR, I am sure they could accomodate her.

And as a footnote, how do I match up Finnair aircraft for the outwards/inwards thing like you do? Can I predict more than one flight in advance?
(with only three a week HEL-SVX, it is obvious which plane is going to be the SVX-HEL flight!)

Sorry about all the questions, but we are Finnair noobs (the HEL-SVX route having only recently been added).

FlyingFinn

She would've gotten rebooked on a suitable alternative, most probably AY or SU to SVO and SU (or some other Russian carrier?) from thereon. Maybe even via LED if there are flights between LED and SVX. If I recall correctly the SVX flight leaves late at night, so this means that she'd probably gotten a hotel stay at HEL as well, courtesy of Finnair of course and on onward flight the next morning.

If the delay was not severe I think the realistic scenario would have been that AY would hold the SVX flight a bit until all the connecting people off the delayed flight are onboard (but not necessary for luggage!). They won't hold for hours, but 20 minutes or so, usually yes.

Errr, all Finnair flights either start of end at HEL (ok, there are a few triangle domestic flights, but we can ignore those). Thus a flight HEL-LHR will turn back and become LHR-HEL. The flight numbers are odd for ex-HEL flights, and even for to-HEL flights, thus AY839 (odd) is HEL-LHR and when turning back at LHR will become AY840 (i.e. outbound flight number + 1 to make it even) LHR-HEL.


PS. That's a very interesting nickname you have!

Ivan Grozny

Thanks for that. Yes, there are flights from LED to SVX - with Ural Ailines (U6) or Rossiya (FV) (they codeshare their flights. U6 is based at SVX, whilst FV is based at LED - bit like the BA/AY codeshare for LHR-HEL).
U6 also flies a frequent service on the Moscow to SVX route, but only once a day to SVO (they usually go to DME)
UTair (UT/ formerly P2) also flies from VKO-SVX. (VKO is the other one of Moscow 3 major international airports).
So I suppose it is all about connections.
I rather thought that a re-routing would be the answer - but for us it would have been a very bad answer.
If either Mrs G or myself ever wanted to fly via Moscow, we would have gone BMI (I have quite a few points), or Aeroflot (usually the cheapest in Y for the LHR-SVX route).
But, of course, if one does a plane transfer in the destination country, one has to do customs at the entry airport, lug the bags around and check the bags in again.
No thank you!
So we always fly via a third country, with a leg from there straight to SVX, and pay more that the SU ticket price to do so.@:-)
For several years there was a direct LHR-SVX flight (BMED/BA, then BMI), but no more!

You are right about the night flight. It departs a little before midnight, and arrives a little before 6 local (SVX) time, with a three-hour time slip.
Mrs G says that she thought Helsinki airport was very nice ^(she likes to avoid the crowds), but the food on the LHR-HEL leg was rubbish, although the HEL-SVX leg was much better^. Mind you, she was in "cattle class". Both the meals included mashed potato, but she says Finnish mash potato is better than that from London!

Looks like we will be aiming for a couple of hours overlap on the outward flights in future!



Simple answer to a simple question, I suppose!
Thanks

Well, it is good to have an easy name. Some folk sometimes think Grozny is actually a regular surname
And anyway, Ivan Grozny only invaded Finland a little bit
Yours is interesting too.
The earliest reference I personally remember hearing to Flying Finns was in the '70s (I think), and it referred to Finnish rally drivers (such as Hannu Mikkola) in rear-wheel drive Ford Escorts in Races such as the Thousand Lakes Rally. (of course the Escort days ended with the introduction of the iconic Audi Quattro!). Wikipedia says it was used from the 1960's in that context, but I am too young to remember that!

another_shot

One of my colleagues faced a bit similar situation not long time ago. AY will reroute, instead of HEL-SVX they will put pax on HEL-SVO (which is 2 or 3 daily, both AY and AY codeshare on SU), and then on SU SVO-SVX which is 4 daily (2 on SU metal and 2 on SU Nord).
The downside is change of terminal in SVO.

Ivan Grozny

Thanks for the specific example.
That does sound very reasonable (and what I expected, but did not want to hear!)

SVO has one terminal for Domestic, and one for International.
Sorry, I should have said before. I knew about the SVO terminals, but forgot to mention it.
That's the second reason we don't fly via Moscow.
Plus of course, the bag handling issues.
Mrs G also says that customs and immigration are a lot more polite and reasonable at SVX than at SVO.

By the way, SVX has just extended the runway, and built another new international terminal, replacing the nearly new one I visited last summer.
The new runway is supposed to be able to handle BIG planes, and I hope this will lead to an expansion of the HEL-SVX route.

If ever given the choice, Mrs G would have preferred to hang around in Helsinki for a couple of days, and take the next direct HEL-SVX flight.

Seems like the best thing is to get a flight with a nice wait at HEL, to give a better chance of making the connection. There are about 6 LHR-HEL AY/AY codeshare flights that connect, so it is just a matter of choosing an appropriate one (don't want to wait 8 hours at HEL, unless intending to do a quick bit of the tourism!)
Thanks for all your advice and suggestions.

The only bit of my query unanswered is:
are delays common on the AY/HEL route?

to which I would like to add:
how prompt are AY in general?
do they get many cancelled/delayed flights due to maintenance?
is HEL prone to unusual weather - implying delays?
is the AY ticket price normally this low, or are they having expanding / desparately hanging on to market share?
why was a Thursday flight from LHR (implying a Friday arrival at SVX) priced a good bit cheaper than the other two days of the SVX connection? (that's why Mrs G went on the Thursday!)

Apart from the food in Y on the LHR-HEL leg (meal had a spicy sauce all over it, and Mrs G really, really, doesn't like spicy sauces!), Mrs G is very impressed with the AY (via HEL) offering. And when in Y, and especially at the price offered this year (though still not as cheap as SU LHR-SVO-SVX), the issue of having to book an earlier flight to give a decent chance of making the SVX connection is not an issue, especially when it is only an extra couple of hours or so.
Looks like AY might have found a new customer!