Mar 5, 2018, 2:06 am
Last edit by: intuition
This is a summary of rules and perks for AY+ members travelling on the new "unbundled" Light (basic) tickets
Seating
Seating will be automatic/random when check-in opens.
Seat selection is chargeable even after check-in opens.
Children will be seated next to one adult if booked in the same PNR. Adults and youths in same ticket can be spread all over cabin.
Tier member seat selection perk
AY+ silver gets free seat selection on BA operated flights from seven days before departure
AY+gold and plat gets free seat selection on any BA, AY and IB operated flight.
No one gets any free seat selection on any AA operated flight
Bag-allowance after applying tier perk
AY+ silver gets 1 bag on AY marketed and operated flights and on all AA marketed flights
AY+ gold gets 1 bag on AY marketed and operated flights, 1 bag on all IB marketed flights and 2 bags on AA marketed flights
AY plat gets 1 bag on all AY, IB marketed flights and 3 bags on AA marketed flights
No one gets any bags on any BA marketed flight.
Tier perks that works unconditionally
Premium check-in
Fast track security
Lounge access
Priority boarding
Seating
Seating will be automatic/random when check-in opens.
Seat selection is chargeable even after check-in opens.
Children will be seated next to one adult if booked in the same PNR. Adults and youths in same ticket can be spread all over cabin.
Tier member seat selection perk
AY+ silver gets free seat selection on BA operated flights from seven days before departure
AY+gold and plat gets free seat selection on any BA, AY and IB operated flight.
No one gets any free seat selection on any AA operated flight
Bag-allowance after applying tier perk
AY+ silver gets 1 bag on AY marketed and operated flights and on all AA marketed flights
AY+ gold gets 1 bag on AY marketed and operated flights, 1 bag on all IB marketed flights and 2 bags on AA marketed flights
AY plat gets 1 bag on all AY, IB marketed flights and 3 bags on AA marketed flights
No one gets any bags on any BA marketed flight.
Tier perks that works unconditionally
Premium check-in
Fast track security
Lounge access
Priority boarding
Light fares to North America
Mar 2, 2018, 1:04 am
#16
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,174
OP says "unbundled fares on selected routes" - I assume this means unbundling won't happen on all routes covered by the JV. Any insight into what routes are targeted?
Mar 2, 2018, 1:29 am
#17
Ambassador: Finnair
Join Date: May 2003
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Lumo, BA Silver, HHonors Gold
Posts: 4,268
Maybe I'm in a minority here but it would be good if these lowest fares would be excluded from upgrades for long hauls. Giving more space for people who pay a bit more.
Mar 2, 2018, 2:01 am
#18
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,174
While AY+ is not a super-duper-program, it has a simplicity and a few basic rules that makes it attractive. All fares being upgradeable is one, but other perks are also without exception. Your +1 bag applies to all fares. All J fares earns 200% and with the exception of the horrible JV, fares are bundled into easy to understand groups. A 'Value' is a 'Value' is a 'Value'. No fineprint.
The second this unbundling spreads to AY+ perks, it will destroy the value of the program entirely. What the f*** use is a handful of upgrade vouchers if I must jump through the loops to be allowed to use them?
"I'm Sorry Mr Platinum, but you can't use your upgrade voucher because you bought a ticket with the wrong fare."
"No, you can't use your seat selection perk, because you are flying on a high season friday".
"You can bring a golfbag free of charge, unless you connect in BKK, because that route is excluded".
"Award flight to Asia costs 100k points. Except popular routes like SIN that costs 110k. We reserve the right to change which routes are deemed popular without prior notice. Award flights to NA costs 87k points, except SFO that costs 93k. Also, for high season add 50% to all points cost. Departing on Tue-Thu during springtime has a 35% points discount. "
KISS.
If they fragment the program it is clear they are not worthy any loyalty.
Mar 2, 2018, 3:42 am
#19
Ambassador: Finnair
Join Date: May 2003
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Lumo, BA Silver, HHonors Gold
Posts: 4,268
No matter if we like it or not the only loyalty worth anything to anyone is money. FF programs are changing for good and we have only seen the start of the new wave for AY Plus. The real "enhancements" are still TBA. My opinion is that one starting point could be these extremely low fares which are targeted at holiday travelers to begin with. Why should someone paying 800 eur for Y return be treated the same as someone paying 300 eur?
Points/vouchers/status is so easily gained and widely spread that status alone is not worth a whole lot to any airline, maybe Lumo being an exception in AY's case.
Points/vouchers/status is so easily gained and widely spread that status alone is not worth a whole lot to any airline, maybe Lumo being an exception in AY's case.
Mar 2, 2018, 5:20 am
#20
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,174
The upgrades are already under 2 regimes of capacity control:
1. There is a finite number of upgrade vouchers at any given time, indirectly controlled by AY through the tier points earnings
2. The availability in F class is carefully monitored and controlled by AY on a daily basis.
Adding a third control mechanism with ticket price as a factor seems uncalled for.
Besides, if the new tickets are targeted to (and mainly purchased by) price sensitive holiday travellers, why would there even be a problem?! They won't have any vouchers to use and if they are so price sensitive, why would they suddenly pay a pile of € to upgrade?
It leads me to believe that there is no problem to solve.
1. There is a finite number of upgrade vouchers at any given time, indirectly controlled by AY through the tier points earnings
2. The availability in F class is carefully monitored and controlled by AY on a daily basis.
Adding a third control mechanism with ticket price as a factor seems uncalled for.
Besides, if the new tickets are targeted to (and mainly purchased by) price sensitive holiday travellers, why would there even be a problem?! They won't have any vouchers to use and if they are so price sensitive, why would they suddenly pay a pile of € to upgrade?
It leads me to believe that there is no problem to solve.
Mar 2, 2018, 5:31 am
#21
Ambassador: Finnair
Join Date: May 2003
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Lumo, BA Silver, HHonors Gold
Posts: 4,268
The new 18m expiry rule will in the future bring a lot more points (from occassional travelers) into the game and many more pax looking to upgrade, don't forget that.
Mar 2, 2018, 6:20 am
#24
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: HEL
Programs: AY+ Gold
Posts: 34
And here is the link: (weird 5post rule)
Newsroom - Coming Soon: Basic Economy on Select Flights to Europe - American Airlines Group, Inc.
Newsroom - Coming Soon: Basic Economy on Select Flights to Europe - American Airlines Group, Inc.
Mar 2, 2018, 6:46 am
#25
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,174
The ability to upgrade any fare class to business is nominated every year as outstanding benefit of the AY+ program.
Mar 2, 2018, 7:42 am
#27
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,174
Maybe I misunderstood you, but what I mean is:
AA flight, AA program = AA rules
AY flight, AY program = AY rules
An AA member cannot use AA instruments to upgrade a AA flight if it is booked in economy basic. Fine, this is their prerogative and is in line with how AA program works. But just because AA has that rule, there is nothing forcing AY to start blocking AY+ members using AY+ instruments to upgrade AY flights booked in light ticket type.
They align the ticket types but it needn't affect their respective loyalty programs.
AA flight, AA program = AA rules
AY flight, AY program = AY rules
An AA member cannot use AA instruments to upgrade a AA flight if it is booked in economy basic. Fine, this is their prerogative and is in line with how AA program works. But just because AA has that rule, there is nothing forcing AY to start blocking AY+ members using AY+ instruments to upgrade AY flights booked in light ticket type.
They align the ticket types but it needn't affect their respective loyalty programs.
Mar 2, 2018, 8:26 am
#28
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Helsinki
Programs: A3 Gold, BA Silver
Posts: 1,014
Minimum fares are more complicated issue than it looks at first glance. The way US carriers have implemented Basic Economy means that someone who has bought 400 € Economy ticket from Stockholm to Seattle is able to upgrade with miles/vouchers. On the other hand if one buys 800 € Basic Economy from Helsinki to Seattle, one won't be able to upgrade with miles/vouchers.
Mar 2, 2018, 10:38 am
#29
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: HEL
Programs: AY+ Gold
Posts: 34
Maybe I misunderstood you, but what I mean is:
AA flight, AA program = AA rules
AY flight, AY program = AY rules
An AA member cannot use AA instruments to upgrade a AA flight if it is booked in economy basic. Fine, this is their prerogative and is in line with how AA program works. But just because AA has that rule, there is nothing forcing AY to start blocking AY+ members using AY+ instruments to upgrade AY flights booked in light ticket type.
They align the ticket types but it needn't affect their respective loyalty programs.
AA flight, AA program = AA rules
AY flight, AY program = AY rules
An AA member cannot use AA instruments to upgrade a AA flight if it is booked in economy basic. Fine, this is their prerogative and is in line with how AA program works. But just because AA has that rule, there is nothing forcing AY to start blocking AY+ members using AY+ instruments to upgrade AY flights booked in light ticket type.
They align the ticket types but it needn't affect their respective loyalty programs.
Mar 2, 2018, 11:26 am
#30
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY, SK, TK
Posts: 7,598
Let's not go there.
While AY+ is not a super-duper-program, it has a simplicity and a few basic rules that makes it attractive. All fares being upgradeable is one, but other perks are also without exception. Your +1 bag applies to all fares. All J fares earns 200% and with the exception of the horrible JV, fares are bundled into easy to understand groups. A 'Value' is a 'Value' is a 'Value'. No fineprint.
The second this unbundling spreads to AY+ perks, it will destroy the value of the program entirely. What the f*** use is a handful of upgrade vouchers if I must jump through the loops to be allowed to use them?
"I'm Sorry Mr Platinum, but you can't use your upgrade voucher because you bought a ticket with the wrong fare."
"No, you can't use your seat selection perk, because you are flying on a high season friday".
"You can bring a golfbag free of charge, unless you connect in BKK, because that route is excluded".
"Award flight to Asia costs 100k points. Except popular routes like SIN that costs 110k. We reserve the right to change which routes are deemed popular without prior notice. Award flights to NA costs 87k points, except SFO that costs 93k. Also, for high season add 50% to all points cost. Departing on Tue-Thu during springtime has a 35% points discount. "
KISS.
If they fragment the program it is clear they are not worthy any loyalty.
While AY+ is not a super-duper-program, it has a simplicity and a few basic rules that makes it attractive. All fares being upgradeable is one, but other perks are also without exception. Your +1 bag applies to all fares. All J fares earns 200% and with the exception of the horrible JV, fares are bundled into easy to understand groups. A 'Value' is a 'Value' is a 'Value'. No fineprint.
The second this unbundling spreads to AY+ perks, it will destroy the value of the program entirely. What the f*** use is a handful of upgrade vouchers if I must jump through the loops to be allowed to use them?
"I'm Sorry Mr Platinum, but you can't use your upgrade voucher because you bought a ticket with the wrong fare."
"No, you can't use your seat selection perk, because you are flying on a high season friday".
"You can bring a golfbag free of charge, unless you connect in BKK, because that route is excluded".
"Award flight to Asia costs 100k points. Except popular routes like SIN that costs 110k. We reserve the right to change which routes are deemed popular without prior notice. Award flights to NA costs 87k points, except SFO that costs 93k. Also, for high season add 50% to all points cost. Departing on Tue-Thu during springtime has a 35% points discount. "
KISS.
If they fragment the program it is clear they are not worthy any loyalty.
Complicated rules only bring massive boarding confusion, blocking gates like illegal immigration and also onboard hassle