Light fares to North America

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Old Mar 4, 18, 7:06 pm   -   Wikipost
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This is a summary of rules and perks for AY+ members travelling on the new "unbundled" Light (basic) tickets

Seating
Seating will be automatic/random when check-in opens.
Seat selection is chargeable even after check-in opens.
Children will be seated next to one adult if booked in the same PNR. Adults and youths in same ticket can be spread all over cabin.

Tier member seat selection perk
AY+ silver gets free seat selection on BA operated flights from seven days before departure
AY+gold and plat gets free seat selection on any BA, AY and IB operated flight.
No one gets any free seat selection on any AA operated flight


Bag-allowance after applying tier perk
AY+ silver gets 1 bag on AY marketed and operated flights and on all AA marketed flights
AY+ gold gets 1 bag on AY marketed and operated flights, 1 bag on all IB marketed flights and 2 bags on AA marketed flights
AY plat gets 1 bag on all AY, IB marketed flights and 3 bags on AA marketed flights
No one gets any bags on any BA marketed flight.



Tier perks that works unconditionally
Premium check-in
Fast track security
Lounge access
Priority boarding
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Old Mar 1, 18, 7:22 am
  #1  
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Light fares to North America

Finnair and other JV partners will start selling Light fares to US in April.

"During April 2018, American Airlines, British Airways, Finnair & Iberia will together launch unbundled fares on selected routes between Europe and North America (and vice versa), offering even more choice for our customers.
For American Airlines, British Airways and Iberia, these fares will be called Basic and on Finnair they will be called Light. Offering an alternative option to our bundled fares, Basic/Light fares allow customers the choice to personalise their journey and only pay for the elements they require.
Customers purchasing Basic or Light fares will enjoy the same great service across our Economy cabins as those purchasing more expensive Economy cabin fare types, including in-flight meals, a range of in-flight entertainment and complimentary headphones and blankets. Combined with our extensive transatlantic network, convenient flight times and award-winning loyalty programmes, these fares provide customers with even more options when travelling with us.
Our Basic or Light fares will not include checked baggage or choice of seat selection, instead allowing customers to choose to add these options individually should they wish to tailor the product to their needs. A generous, carry-on baggage allowance, comprising of a carry-on and a personal item, and allocated seating at check-in will always be included. For customers preferring to include checked baggage and seat selection, our bundled fares provide the best value. These fares are called Main on American Airlines, Standard on British Airways & Finnair, and Optima on Iberia.
ATPCO Branded Fares will be implemented on routes with Basic/Light, with the unbundled fares displaying as the default fare in these markets. To support our introduction of the new fares, you will need to use the upsell product brand codes to access any upsell fares (inclusive of checked baggage). If you do not use Branded Fares pricing entries then you will not be able to access any upsell fares in the markets where Basic/Light are filed. For any questions or issues, please contact your GDS.
Travel dates and routes will be confirmed at launch in April"

Source: batraveltrade.com
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Old Mar 1, 18, 12:28 pm
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I guess it was anticipated, but I don't like it. Lets hope this desease doesn't spread to the asia routes.
I'm not convinced that this is a good strategy in 2018. Oneworld should rather try to distinct themself from LCC's, not becoming one. There are enough LCC flying transatlantic already. I think they should aim for the customer segment consisting of normal people who wants to travel on a normal Y-ticket.
I fking hate searching for tickets and not being able to see the final price before payment page. And so does every normal person I know.
Worst thing in this message is that they are promising "generous" carry on baggage allowance. I would rather see a ticket type with ZERO carry on, only a personal item.
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Old Mar 1, 18, 12:38 pm
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This will most definitely spread to South East Asian routes, to where a certain long-haul low cost carrier already flies from Europe.

But I'm more immediately concerned about the impact on booking codes and mile earning rates.
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Old Mar 1, 18, 12:39 pm
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Okay. No surprise. But is America Light the same as Euro Light?
- will status pax still get +1 bag like on AY's Euro Light?
- will status pax still get seat selection, and Platskus free Y+?
- will status pax get lounge & priority access?
- will earnings be 50 % or even 25 %?

And will this mean that the cheapest non-campaign tickets will turn Light, so basically if you need bags or want a seat, you will need to pay more than now to get a Standard (what's this ne name!?)? Will you, in that case, earn 100 %?

And lastly, apparently the Branded Fares text means that all OTAs will practically only sell Light tickets and super-expensive refundable Y tickets (and J).
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Old Mar 1, 18, 1:13 pm
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Originally Posted by ffay005 View Post
Okay. No surprise. But is America Light the same as Euro Light?
- will status pax still get +1 bag like on AY's Euro Light?
- will status pax still get seat selection, and Platskus free Y+?
- will status pax get lounge & priority access?
- will earnings be 50 % or even 25 %?
Yes to all questions but the last one. That is still unclear.
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Old Mar 1, 18, 1:30 pm
  #6  
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Originally Posted by ffay005 View Post
Okay. No surprise. But is America Light the same as Euro Light?
- will status pax still get +1 bag like on AY's Euro Light?
- will status pax still get seat selection, and Platskus free Y+?
- will status pax get lounge & priority access?
- will earnings be 50 % or even 25 %?

And will this mean that the cheapest non-campaign tickets will turn Light, so basically if you need bags or want a seat, you will need to pay more than now to get a Standard (what's this ne name!?)? Will you, in that case, earn 100 %?

And lastly, apparently the Branded Fares text means that all OTAs will practically only sell Light tickets and super-expensive refundable Y tickets (and J).
Important questions.
It seems Star Allinace is moving the direction towards elites not getting extra bag on "unbundled" fares (SK the latest airline to exclude it) and we all know BA already negates many elite perks on HBO tickets.


And yes, how "great" to get a new, confusing, naming scheme on a subset of the routes. Basic/Light and Main/Standard/Optima, Yeez...
I just love how one airlines calls something "standard" , ie sees it as the vanilla choice while another one calls the same optima, ie sees it as the over-the-top choice..
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Old Mar 1, 18, 1:33 pm
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Originally Posted by seldomrfly View Post
I...
Worst thing in this message is that they are promising "generous" carry on baggage allowance. I would rather see a ticket type with ZERO carry on, only a personal item.
+1.
This has disaster written all over and apparently even BA is clueless how their HBO fare has lead to chaotic boarding, late departures and discomfort in the cabin.
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Old Mar 1, 18, 2:33 pm
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Originally Posted by intuition View Post
+1.
This has disaster written all over and apparently even BA is clueless how their HBO fare has lead to chaotic boarding, late departures and discomfort in the cabin.
Studies have shown that most customers look at the price as the main criterion (and maybe direct routing). And then, Norwegian, Primera, WestJet, ... are invading the transatlantic market, which is IAG's main remaining business - having lost short-haul to LCCs already.
So they have the two pronged approach: adopt unbundled fares in the JV, and start Level. Customer comfort can not weigh much in this.

As for Finnair, I do not quite get why they use BA's fare branding instead of their existing Light/Basic one. AA and IB did keep their own fare branding. Or then Finnair really wants to kill Basic for good - i.e. also on transiberian routes.
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Old Mar 1, 18, 3:38 pm
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Originally Posted by Courmisch View Post
Studies have shown that most customers look at the price as the main criterion (and maybe direct routing). And then, Norwegian, Primera, WestJet, ... are invading the transatlantic market, which is IAG's main remaining business - having lost short-haul to LCCs already.
So they have the two pronged approach: adopt unbundled fares in the JV, and start Level. Customer comfort can not weigh much in this.
...
I do get that. However, why only unbundle one thing, charge extra for it but offer a replacement service for free? Many non-frequent traveller only knows about checked bags, and now airlines want to teach them to bring it all into the cabin and give them a rebate for doing that.
Why don't they do a true "light" fare and unbundle everything? If it is about the price, don't you need the lowest price to get the sale?


Compare to real LCC, like W6. They have "baggage militia" in the check-in line. They will stop you already at check-in if you carry too much or too large items unless you pay upfront. They are sure to collect on the LCC model either way, where the legacy carriers are illequiped, fails to collect and end up with less revenue but still higher costs.

Last edited by intuition; Mar 1, 18 at 3:44 pm
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Old Mar 1, 18, 8:33 pm
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Originally Posted by lkrt View Post
Yes to all questions but the last one. That is still unclear.
How can you be so sure about the FF benefits? AA basic ticket at the moment excludes all of the FF benefits no matter what. Even Concierge Key.
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Old Mar 1, 18, 11:00 pm
  #11  
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Originally Posted by Courmisch View Post
Studies have shown that most customers look at the price as the main criterion (and maybe direct routing). And then, Norwegian, Primera, WestJet, ... are invading the transatlantic market, which is IAG's main remaining business - having lost short-haul to LCCs already.
So they have the two pronged approach: adopt unbundled fares in the JV, and start Level. Customer comfort can not weigh much in this.

As for Finnair, I do not quite get why they use BA's fare branding instead of their existing Light/Basic one. AA and IB did keep their own fare branding. Or then Finnair really wants to kill Basic for good - i.e. also on transiberian routes.
This isn't just because of LCCs. Air France-KLM, Delta, Lufthansa & SAS have started selling Light/Basic fares to US & Canada in Q4/2017. Some of those fares are quite aggressive. For instance AF-KLM sold a week ago flights from Helsinki to California and Miami for less than 300 (air fare ~170 + taxes ~120 ).
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Old Mar 2, 18, 1:12 am
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Originally Posted by miikkak View Post
This isn't just because of LCCs. Air France-KLM, Delta, Lufthansa & SAS have started selling Light/Basic fares to US & Canada in Q4/2017. Some of those fares are quite aggressive. For instance AF-KLM sold a week ago flights from Helsinki to California and Miami for less than 300 (air fare ~170 + taxes ~120 ).
Why do you think Air France-KLM, Delta, Lufthansa, and SAS have started selling these types of fares, after basically decades of not really changing their product, other than cutting two free checked bags to one? They are all competing with Wow and Norweigen, and their fares have to keep up.

Customers like cheap. Why pay $600 for a ticket when you can pay $300? Yeah, maybe it is a bit less comfortable, maybe no free food (not super important on shorter Transatlantic flights, but maybe I pay for a more expensive accommodation or eat more expensive food or have a longer trip. Flying is temporary.
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Old Mar 2, 18, 1:21 am
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Originally Posted by lkrt View Post
Yes to all questions but the last one. That is still unclear.
Is this knowledge or speculation? Anyway, hope you're right!

One more: are these upgradeable?
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Old Mar 2, 18, 1:27 am
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Norwegian and most LCCs don't fly to Canada but Air France-KLM & co sell HBO tickets to Canada and destinations not served by European LCCs like Alaska, Hawaii, Houston, Phoenix, Nashville... This is quite different from LH which currently sells Light tickets only on routes served by Norwegian.
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Old Mar 2, 18, 1:51 am
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Originally Posted by ffay005 View Post
Is this knowledge or speculation? Anyway, hope you're right!

One more: are these upgradeable?
Manual published at batraveltrade.com confirms this. I don't know if it's a typo but non-AY Sapphires might lose the bag benefit. I think AY tickets might be upgradedable but I'm not 100 % sure. (The manual mentions that AA Basic Economy tickets are non-upgradedable but doesn't mention about other restrictions).
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