Business class – please share your views
Feb 21, 2015, 6:53 am
#31
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 511
I had my first encounter with this seat the other day when I got seated in First on a regional KA A330. It is a nice seat and the herringbone works well on daytime flight ( I still think it will be not so good on redeye). The 1-2-1 felt a bit crowded on A330 but I guess the width of A350 will help.
The seat is much better than the vantage AFAIC tell from the short ride.
The seat is much better than the vantage AFAIC tell from the short ride.
For sleeping I quite like BA's CW window seat especially on the upper deck of a 747. I don't like seats which are very exposed to the aisle -- in the Cirrus you do get that feeling. But still it is a big improvement over the current Vantage: more spacious and has an ottoman.
Feb 21, 2015, 11:19 am
#32
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 54
Agree on the cost-saving approach being a Finnair speciality. Enhancements that has a savings potential usually gets implemented in favour of bean counters, not for loyalty.
Yes, good suggestions otherwise for plat and a new plat+. Kind of similar to perks of BAEC GGL. I like perks that has to do with flying, so upgrades and awards would be key to me.
They do (or did?) offer dinner at the lounge for all the late night asian flights, ie SIN, HKG. Buffé style though, so it was never anything I used.
Yes, good suggestions otherwise for plat and a new plat+. Kind of similar to perks of BAEC GGL. I like perks that has to do with flying, so upgrades and awards would be key to me.
They do (or did?) offer dinner at the lounge for all the late night asian flights, ie SIN, HKG. Buffé style though, so it was never anything I used.
Please let them also know that they should get rid of the one-tier structure, and improve benefits for the passengers who spend the most (ie fly full-fare business class all the time).
My loyalty to AY was fundamentally questioned last August, when I tried to book reward C tickets for my family Thailand vacation for Christmas (4 months ahead). Even after spending ~60,000-100,000 Euros on tickets for AY that year, and affecting the purchasing decisions of at least the same spend on other passengers traveling with me, AY said no availability. At that moment I felt that Finnair did not value the business with me. For once I was interested in a benefit, they said no availability. It got resolved in the end, but let me note that at BA that stupid&unnecessary episode would not have happened because of the possibility to book rewards from revenue classes on higher tiers (GGL etc).
All the best,
JF
Feb 22, 2015, 4:16 am
#33
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,182
Well, if others think that providing additional reward availability for the Platinums would be a good idea, I'd suggest approaching AY directly. I believe that they are in the process of redesigning the mileage program right now.
Please let them also know that they should get rid of the one-tier structure, and improve benefits for the passengers who spend the most (ie fly full-fare business class all the time).
...
Please let them also know that they should get rid of the one-tier structure, and improve benefits for the passengers who spend the most (ie fly full-fare business class all the time).
...
Thanks JustFlyer for several good posts and welcome to the AY forum, by the way!
Maybe stirring up some bad feelings among fellows with lower AY tiers, but I'd like to ask SPBanker if you perhaps could approach AY with a friendly tip that AY platinums would like AY to offer something more just for their highest tier members?
The increased upgrade availability is an excellent idea, perhaps tied to the "Family award" perk we already have (which is pretty much the only thing that separates plat from gold).
JustFlyer's example is a situation I also have experienced, and I guess others too? It is great that they sometimes "fix availability" for some after haggeling, but why not formalise this?
Several AY plats (current, former or becomming) also have experience with BAEC and easy of upgrades and the jokers, so here are probably easy to find some good examples.
Secondly, after the the two joint ventures came in place, it has been apparent that partner upgrades is something that could be very useful. Probably much more difficult for AY to change quickly, but nevertheless something I think many of us would appreciate.
IMHO they "owe us one" (tounge in cheek) after the announcement
New benefits to Finnair Platinum and Gold tier members when flying with oneworld carriers
Platinum members already have the additional checked baggage allowance benefit.
Feb 23, 2015, 8:37 pm
#34
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: HEL
Programs: lots of shiny metal cards
Posts: 14,107
I just flew HEL-BKK, so here're my latest impressions:
Seat - well, I still like it, but must agree with the above, if you want to sleep well, you need to get one of those with the open side to the aisle. It's not comfy in the "foot-tunnel" For daylight flights, though it's excellent. On the same day I flew TK on their A340 (?) in the front - much more airy, much less private. For a day-flight AY wins. For a night flight - I don't know.
Food - it was a lovely dinner, tasty food. Ice-cream brand - do I really care?
Crew - this was the "matron crew" (excuse my language), doing their stuff efficiently. You won't see them picking up the toddler in 1A and going all crazy about her (as the TK crew did)
IFE - underwhelming, bring your own
Amenity - oh my, oh my. Pure basics. I'm not really into this amenity thing and the Marimekko bag surely beats the cardboard one (the womanfolk might like it) but this is really the bare minimum.
Flight time - 9hrs to BKK instead of 12-15-18 via another hub? Nirvana
So in my opinion it's a solid product with room for improvement, but not bad at all*
*and compared to sitting in the back of the bus...
Seat - well, I still like it, but must agree with the above, if you want to sleep well, you need to get one of those with the open side to the aisle. It's not comfy in the "foot-tunnel" For daylight flights, though it's excellent. On the same day I flew TK on their A340 (?) in the front - much more airy, much less private. For a day-flight AY wins. For a night flight - I don't know.
Food - it was a lovely dinner, tasty food. Ice-cream brand - do I really care?
Crew - this was the "matron crew" (excuse my language), doing their stuff efficiently. You won't see them picking up the toddler in 1A and going all crazy about her (as the TK crew did
)IFE - underwhelming, bring your own
Amenity - oh my, oh my. Pure basics. I'm not really into this amenity thing and the Marimekko bag surely beats the cardboard one (the womanfolk might like it) but this is really the bare minimum.
Flight time - 9hrs to BKK instead of 12-15-18 via another hub? Nirvana
So in my opinion it's a solid product with room for improvement, but not bad at all*
*and compared to sitting in the back of the bus...
Mar 10, 2015, 7:35 am
#35
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Bristol
Programs: BA GGL, UA Plat, DL Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,380
I am asking this from the perspective of a frequent BA flyer who has never travelled AY.
We want to go to Dubai in the New Year, so have just started to looking at prices in Business on HEL-DXB-HEL (have enough Avios to position LHR-HEL-LHR cheaply). For those who don't know, the BA scheme is changing soon - we need to book before April 28th to get keener redemption and points/miles earning rates.
The AY pricing for e.g. Jan 23rd - Jan 31st on AY963 / AY964 is literally about 1/2 that of other carriers like BA, but ITA Matrix says this route is operated by an A321. Nothing wrong with that in itself, as the BA LCY-JFK service amply demonstrates, but when I look at the seat maps for these services it looks just as crowded as BA's Club Europe.
Does anyone have experience of the Business seats on this route ? Are they lie-flat ? My partner and I are 5'8 and 5'6 respectively (1.73m and 1.68m) so having our feet in a "tunnel" wouldn't be too problematic, but we do want to be able to sleep for a while on board..
Kiitos jo etukäteen
We want to go to Dubai in the New Year, so have just started to looking at prices in Business on HEL-DXB-HEL (have enough Avios to position LHR-HEL-LHR cheaply). For those who don't know, the BA scheme is changing soon - we need to book before April 28th to get keener redemption and points/miles earning rates.
The AY pricing for e.g. Jan 23rd - Jan 31st on AY963 / AY964 is literally about 1/2 that of other carriers like BA, but ITA Matrix says this route is operated by an A321. Nothing wrong with that in itself, as the BA LCY-JFK service amply demonstrates, but when I look at the seat maps for these services it looks just as crowded as BA's Club Europe.
Does anyone have experience of the Business seats on this route ? Are they lie-flat ? My partner and I are 5'8 and 5'6 respectively (1.73m and 1.68m) so having our feet in a "tunnel" wouldn't be too problematic, but we do want to be able to sleep for a while on board..
Kiitos jo etukäteen
Mar 10, 2015, 7:50 am
#36
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Finland
Programs: BA gold, OWE
Posts: 373
A32B is exactly same plane/configuration Finnair uses in Europe short haul. Plane is all economy and business class separated with curtain. Seat are standard short haul seats with really limited recline. Middle seat is blocked like in BA, but no tray/table on top of the seat.
I would not pay anything extra (other than Finnair - points) on top of economy ticket . Have you checked QR offers? They do offer DXB from most of European cities sub 1000€ tickets at the moment on Dreamliner via DOH.
Mar 16, 2015, 11:21 pm
#38
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
Just did this last week...
A32B is exactly same plane/configuration Finnair uses in Europe short haul. Plane is all economy and business class separated with curtain. Seat are standard short haul seats with really limited recline. Middle seat is blocked like in BA, but no tray/table on top of the seat.
I would not pay anything extra (other than Finnair - points) on top of economy ticket . Have you checked QR offers? They do offer DXB from most of European cities sub 1000€ tickets at the moment on Dreamliner via DOH.
A32B is exactly same plane/configuration Finnair uses in Europe short haul. Plane is all economy and business class separated with curtain. Seat are standard short haul seats with really limited recline. Middle seat is blocked like in BA, but no tray/table on top of the seat.
I would not pay anything extra (other than Finnair - points) on top of economy ticket . Have you checked QR offers? They do offer DXB from most of European cities sub 1000€ tickets at the moment on Dreamliner via DOH.
I was considering a J-cabin flight to Asia on AY with a 3-hour 32B "short" haul in Europe and a long haul on the 343 configured with the old seats, which I learned don't go horizontal.
I now understand why it's priced lower than the competition -- and no thanks! Off to evaluate QR vs. BA I go...
Mar 17, 2015, 9:36 pm
#39
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Atlanta, GA / San Francisco, CA
Programs: BA Gold, TK Elite Plus
Posts: 1,150
I think this is the first time I've read someone thinking that BA spends MORE on their J meals than AY?
BA J food has been consistently going down over the past years, and nowadays can be downright useless (afternoon tea, TATL breakfasts etc...).
Finnair still gives you a decent meal, pretty much any time of the day. With BA, you need to know when to fly if you want to have anything edible, and even then it is heated-on-plate-under-foil type of grub.
Seat is a matter of opinion, I don't like Finnairs Zodiac, too cramped on the feet, but I absolutely hate BA CW unless I get a select window seat where I don't have to be an acrobat to jump to the aisle (62/64AK etc).
CW on an aisle seat on the flying dorm (777) is downright awful, let alone if you get the middle seat next to a stranger...
Wife really liked the new Marimekko amenity bag, bare minimums content but nice bag compared to the old cartboard disaster.
BA J food has been consistently going down over the past years, and nowadays can be downright useless (afternoon tea, TATL breakfasts etc...).
Finnair still gives you a decent meal, pretty much any time of the day. With BA, you need to know when to fly if you want to have anything edible, and even then it is heated-on-plate-under-foil type of grub.
Seat is a matter of opinion, I don't like Finnairs Zodiac, too cramped on the feet, but I absolutely hate BA CW unless I get a select window seat where I don't have to be an acrobat to jump to the aisle (62/64AK etc).
CW on an aisle seat on the flying dorm (777) is downright awful, let alone if you get the middle seat next to a stranger...
Wife really liked the new Marimekko amenity bag, bare minimums content but nice bag compared to the old cartboard disaster.
Mar 17, 2015, 10:25 pm
#40
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: HEL
Programs: lots of shiny metal cards
Posts: 14,107
All things being equal I rate AY C over BA CW.
Of course all things are never equal - flight times, flight length, price being a few "minor" things. I don't know where hillrider would start his/her trip - if outside the main Eur hubs (LHR, FRA, AMS), the total travel time might even be shorter via HEL (e.g flying MAN-HEL-Asia is better than MAN-LHR-Asia)
QR C is a better overall product, but going to HKG and points North it's longer via DOH.
Of course all things are never equal - flight times, flight length, price being a few "minor" things. I don't know where hillrider would start his/her trip - if outside the main Eur hubs (LHR, FRA, AMS), the total travel time might even be shorter via HEL (e.g flying MAN-HEL-Asia is better than MAN-LHR-Asia)
QR C is a better overall product, but going to HKG and points North it's longer via DOH.
Mar 22, 2015, 6:13 pm
#41
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Paynesville, Vic
Programs: BA Gold AVIS Presidents Club
Posts: 356
Prague - Melbourne
Normally commute home Downunder 4-5 times a year on a mix of J and Y tickets via PRG LHR SIN MEL using SIA, but decided to give AY a go for the first time last week in J; PRG HEL HKG MEL
Enjoyed the experience and will do so again.
Flying time. 1hr 50 mins, 9:30 and 8: 50 versus 1:40 12:30 & 7:30 approx via LHR.
Obvious Pro's - to me at least
Competitive pricing approx CZK 100,000
PRG-HEL; very nice food ,attentive friendly cabin crew near empty cabin. Ice cold champagne was very palatable and the glassware quirky but interesting. Actually commented to the staff that the experience was superior to BA in CW (except for the seating - no blocked middle row just an empty seat)
Short connection < 1hr but all baggage arrived at destination well labelled.
HEL HKG; same as above: seat 4A which although tight at the feet (think 2 x shoe boxs wide and 2 high) was comfortable enough. Pleasant cabin ambiance. Havent opened the amenity kit yet!
HKG MEL with Cathay. So a premium product for AY prices! 8hr connection to ensure J cabin as earlier flight only books in Y (be careful of this ) Seat 20k on A330 in 1-2-1 config excellent, as was the food and service.
640 Oneworld Tier Points credited to BA account due to frequent PRG LHR hops.
Subject to pricing and availability will plan to use this route again to ensure OWE status.
Enjoyed the experience and will do so again.
Flying time. 1hr 50 mins, 9:30 and 8: 50 versus 1:40 12:30 & 7:30 approx via LHR.
Obvious Pro's - to me at least
Competitive pricing approx CZK 100,000
PRG-HEL; very nice food ,attentive friendly cabin crew near empty cabin. Ice cold champagne was very palatable and the glassware quirky but interesting. Actually commented to the staff that the experience was superior to BA in CW (except for the seating - no blocked middle row just an empty seat)
Short connection < 1hr but all baggage arrived at destination well labelled.
HEL HKG; same as above: seat 4A which although tight at the feet (think 2 x shoe boxs wide and 2 high) was comfortable enough. Pleasant cabin ambiance. Havent opened the amenity kit yet!
HKG MEL with Cathay. So a premium product for AY prices! 8hr connection to ensure J cabin as earlier flight only books in Y (be careful of this ) Seat 20k on A330 in 1-2-1 config excellent, as was the food and service.
640 Oneworld Tier Points credited to BA account due to frequent PRG LHR hops.
Subject to pricing and availability will plan to use this route again to ensure OWE status.
Mar 23, 2015, 10:24 am
#42
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges and Environmentally Friendly Travel
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 22,213
Eagle eyed viewers will have noticed the removal of eight wildly off topic posts from this thread.
Prospero
Senior Moderator
Prospero
Senior Moderator
Mar 23, 2015, 12:19 pm
#43
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: HEL
Programs: lots of shiny metal cards
Posts: 14,107
If you prefer variation from HKG/CX, you have other options, too - NRT/QF or JL, BKK/BA or QF and SIN/I think BA & QF as well. (Though I'm not sure about MEL, SYD surely)
PRG is usually one of the cheapest starting point for AY longhaul (along with BUD, WAW and sometimes ARN) so you are well positioned for future AY adventures
Mar 30, 2015, 7:47 am
#44
Join Date: Nov 2005
Programs: BA Gold, TP Silver
Posts: 888
one think to keep in mind. regardless on the business seat. Your over spending something far much higher money ONLY just to get to a destination place.. so depends where you start and land. You are overly paying just to get there in only a few hours. That money disapears quite quickly over more then 5,000 dollars. Lots of money to throw away just for a few hour trip. Dont get me wrong i too love to go on business class. but come on spent over more then 5,000 you have to be beyond joke. That money will be horribly gone in a just a trp to get a place.
by the time you get to that destination you have just spent more then you can bargain. Dont get me wrong... not sure why busienss class seat has to be over 5,000 or more dollars. Its quite alot of money just for a wider seat.
If the price was much cheaper and economy more cheaper then business it be good. But think about the amount of money you can do with that on something else. Few hours trip on business class can sometimes be alittle nothing on a very higher amount cash.
by the time you get to that destination you have just spent more then you can bargain. Dont get me wrong... not sure why busienss class seat has to be over 5,000 or more dollars. Its quite alot of money just for a wider seat.
If the price was much cheaper and economy more cheaper then business it be good. But think about the amount of money you can do with that on something else. Few hours trip on business class can sometimes be alittle nothing on a very higher amount cash.
Apr 3, 2015, 3:29 am
#45
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 511
http://www.businesstraveller.com/new...and-business-c
Finnair will be cramming the seats in with a significantly tighter pitch than CX!