ffay005

The AA sundae is really something compared to those paper cups, isn't it! Would you like fudge or butterscotch, Sir? But I'm actually a little surprised AY offers something as "premium" as Häagen Dazs. Ingman would be more in line with the AY concept. Or a Valio/Nestle vaniljaeskimo

What I do not find acceptable is that ice cream and a minimal cheese platter are the only dessert options (and at least on MIA flights they've omitted the appetizer, too). The paper cup ice creams sound more like mid-flight self-serve snacks to me.

JustFlyer

I basically skip most of the Finnair LH business class food offering. Just eat a subset of the entree and starter.

Most often the entree, especially the beef when taking off from JFK, can only be eaten with care and quite selectively. Literally I think that the BoM of those pieces of meat must be in a range of $3-5 in retail prices, whereas on other airlines, it can be quite good. I'm also not fancied by the Finnair style of heating the meat with the sauce pre-loaded as a full assembly. I think that the sauce should be poured onto the beef at the point of service, i.e. in front of you. The sides stay better and the dining experience also feels much more premium that way. E.g. Lufthansa adheres to the assembly-at-delivery serving style in their business - why not Finnair?

The AY desserts are generally not worth eating. The chocolates are not premium. Ice cream we already discussed (although I think that it's by far the best Finnair C dessert). I always skip the dessert and ask for Fazer Blue chocolates from the Economy.

In simple terms, in my view most of the AY food does not belong to intercontinental business class. I wish they'd up their game a bit!

JustFlyer

While we are bashing Finnair here, I must give credit to them for being able to keep the business running. It must be super hard to have a profitable enterprise with the low scale of business, with very limited home market demand, in a high-cost country. So kudos for the management!

As a passenger, I'd really like to see Finnair to improve their long-haul product. My fixes would be:

(1) Improve the interior
a) Get a good seat to the new A350. I'd go for narrow&long (i.e. BA CW) as opposed to the current Zodiac's wide&short. My point is that the long&narrow layout provides better legroom although limited with shoulder space. I value the better sleep in the bed-like seats
b) Some A330s' interior starts to be pretty worn out and needs overhaul. When they do it, hopefully they upgrade the old fleet's business class to the A350 standard

(2) Increase consistency in the service
Finnair has some of the best FAs of the industry who are definitely sophisticated and classy. Those exist especially among the older cadre, where you have some great talent. I'm not so sure about the younger folks. As step one, I'd somehow make the FAs feel like valued workforce by bring back some prestige. The poor attendants who have to serve masses in the boxy polyester suits: make them feel again like valued pros. Do something here. Step 2: Intensive training course to the business class FAs on how to serve demanding customers (i.e. do small talk). Some would need a crash course, and I expect that not all would pass the training

(3) Invest more in food
As discussed above

(4) Re-design the Finnair Plus program
As discussed earlier in another thread. Make it attractive to fly LH business. Introduce second tier to the program, with some benefits for passengers who pay full fare business in any case.

As a Finnair manager, would I implement any of those. Probably not. I cannot foresee how my earnings could increase. My view is that Finnair gets selected as it's the lowest cost J/C airline between several APAC/European cities. In many companies, the travel tool automatically requires you to take the cheapest ticket, and with the low-cost pricing strategy, you win the game if you are able to provide the cheapest business class travel. Therefore, typical Finnair buyers' purchasing criteria does not really include the quality of the service. Thus, any improvement would not trigger more purchasing of Finnair tickets, and make Finnair earn more revenue. With that dynamics, Finnair's business is quite stressed as there is an intrinsic cost pressure. The management has reasons to stay on the current track, provide the minimum acceptable product to get selected in the vendor lists of sourcing. However, changing the game would require fundamental restart of the business, which is not realistic to assume that any management would be able to do.

WilcoRoger

Quite interesting points you bring up, but this?

Make your Scandinavian pax embarassed by (small) talking to them?

BadgerBoi

meh, I'm not Scandinavian and I don't want small talk with the FAs - sounds like an American sort of thing to me...

intuition

Oh, I can't believe we are doing one more AY-BA fight out! Well, I'm always game!
While I'm no fan of the Vantage UK Zodiac seat, I cannot recall having flown a worse business class than BA dormitory class, also know as club world. Tiniest seat ever, where you need to have contorsionist's skills just to get into the seat. The service is done without ever looking you in the face, thus allowing the FAs to be even snarkier than they are required by BA to be. All flight long you will be listening to motorized sliders going up and down, your bed will be rocked by the sleep-kicker next door and conversations from the other end of the dorm will be carried across to you, as you are sitting backwards facing strangers.



I do agree on the points how to improve AY though.

The A350 is getting the cirrus (or a cirrus like seat), just scan here and you will find. I believe that will be great.

I don't disagree on introducing a super-platinum level, but they are already struggling at giving the plats anything extra from the golds, so I can't really see it coming.
What perks are you suggesting they give to the super-plats?

About the chit-chat - Yes, most locals might not like it, but every passenger is unique a professional service staffer could easily determine who is who and adapt. I am nordic, but still appreciate purser coming over and talk to me.
CX used to be good at this, but lately they have not met my expectations. I've been pleasantly surprised on KA though. Even CA does it better even when their english skills are limited.

I disagree on the old AY staffers being better. Yes, there are some gems, but equally some rotten eggs in this category. Some senior pursers are just not fit for service - I've seen pursers delay the entire cabin service because they themselves got stuck on a single task (like fixing the crashed IFE). Chief of cabin is not (should not be) just a title - it is a leadership role. Pursers should actively lead the FAs, but many abstain from this duty.
I have found the younger Cantonese FAs very pleasant and service minded.

I agree that they should work hard on consistency and what the Finnair service really is supposed to be.

WilcoRoger

Well, they could always take a page or two from the competitors' book. Free limo* drive to/from metro-Helsinki <-> airport could be one. Free parking at the airport. Meet and greet could be another, though with HEL being such a smallish and very effective airport, not much use of that. Limo* to/from apron stand departures/arrivals. Open doors policy at HEL lounges. X number of free short haul tickets. And these are just flight-related ones. Opera/theater/concert tickets, etc - normal hospitality you'd provide to your top customers.

* any nice car really, not limo in a literal sense - BMW 5-series, MB 200-series, Audi 6-series, etc

intuition

Those are perks that would cost AY some serious money. I doubt they could make break even on those - because those with unlimited travel budgets are probably not very AY loyal anyway. And the open doors lounge would be counter-intuitive if it is loyalty we are talking about. But sure, they are nice perks.

I could see the "wildcard" to release upgrade and award-space for yourself and entourage as something they could do.
And the 48H+ seat guarantee extended to longhaul J is another.

But then again, I think those would fit into regular plat level...

JustFlyer

Enhancing reg Platinum would be easy: just bring additional reward availability, so that Platinums could book upgrades/reward flights at last minute rather than compete with other Finnair Plus tiers on availability of rewards.

For the new Tier, "Platinum Premium" (let's say, 300,000 points), I'd bring one additional benefit: A once/twice per membership year n persons booked into revenue classes, rather than award classes. E.g. take your family on vacation.

The second benefit (booking awards from revenue ticket classes) kind of works today, but requires negotiation with Finnair Plus. It's kind of hassle that I'd prefer not to have.

Peregrine415

One enhancement I'd like to see that doesn't cost additional money is offering "early meal option" to J pax on short red-eye flights, such as AY 6, 21, etc.

JustFlyer

I'm afraid that it would just provide AY an excuse to have even crappier dinner than what it is now. They'd just use it as a cost-saving measure...

Think about what happened after the introduction of the breakfast option on AY6: if you actually want a proper breakfast served, you cannot have it anymore. And about the spec-your-breakfast coupon system: the implementation feels cumbersome. I don't know what's wrong with it at AY, but with the Sleeper Service, BA has managed to keep the premium touch in it whereas at AY, the staff just throws the card on your table. I wish they'd at minimum borrow me a pen to fill it..

A much better idea would be to provide a dining option at the lounge area. I mean, a dinner that would replace the omboard dining, food-food, not snacks. I'm quite happy with the BA Sleeper Service flights where they have properly put it into practice.

intuition

Agree on the cost-saving approach being a Finnair speciality. Enhancements that has a savings potential usually gets implemented in favour of bean counters, not for loyalty.

Yes, good suggestions otherwise for plat and a new plat+. Kind of similar to perks of BAEC GGL. I like perks that has to do with flying, so upgrades and awards would be key to me.

They do (or did?) offer dinner at the lounge for all the late night asian flights, ie SIN, HKG. Buffé style though, so it was never anything I used.

WilcoRoger

BA does it well for their Golds (!) - you get award availability in V (?) class, which is revenue class - used it a number of times. Jokers seem to be popular among GGLs.

ORD Finn

A350s will be equipped with the Zodiac Cirrus, which is e.g. the current CX and the new AA and AF J seat. It is a definitive improvement and a competitive offering.

intuition

I had my first encounter with this seat the other day when I got seated in First on a regional KA A330. It is a nice seat and the herringbone works well on daytime flight ( I still think it will be not so good on redeye). The 1-2-1 felt a bit crowded on A330 but I guess the width of A350 will help.
The seat is much better than the vantage AFAIC tell from the short ride.