Bidding for biz seats
Feb 21, 2016, 10:56 am
#31
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,178
This is a money making scheme, so I am pretty sure they will accep highest bidder in almost all cases *). There have been no mention of any advantage for elites in this scheme, in fact, there has been no communication to elites at all regarding the bidding. Consensus here so far is that the system is aimed at the casual flyer with more money than insight, who might be tricked into paying a high price for an upgrade.
Air New Zealand has a system where elites gets a bonus added to their bid (like $50), but that is because NZ decided to auction out seats taken from the normal elite upgrade availability. We don't know if AY is as scabby as that. There are signs pointing to this, since there are routes where all F availability have been zeroed out.
*) The only case where I think they will ignore the highest bidder is when the bids are not very high and the highest bidder has succeeded in several auctions before. I'm pretty sure they will protect themselves from flyers buying cheaper tickets and count on an cheap upgrade auction. So if anything, elites will be disadvantaged in the auctions.
Air New Zealand has a system where elites gets a bonus added to their bid (like $50), but that is because NZ decided to auction out seats taken from the normal elite upgrade availability. We don't know if AY is as scabby as that. There are signs pointing to this, since there are routes where all F availability have been zeroed out.
*) The only case where I think they will ignore the highest bidder is when the bids are not very high and the highest bidder has succeeded in several auctions before. I'm pretty sure they will protect themselves from flyers buying cheaper tickets and count on an cheap upgrade auction. So if anything, elites will be disadvantaged in the auctions.
Feb 22, 2016, 3:52 am
#32
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: HEL
Programs: HH Gold, SPG Gold, BW Plt, AY, M&M, FB G, CX Gold, AX Plat, CC gold, Le Club plt, Scandic 2nd floor
Posts: 126
4. I am getting the same rating for different segments so the bids and their star-rating clearly has nothing to do with the current load factor, existing bids or anything like that. They are just price-points set by Finnair.
I am guessing that at T-7 days, Finnair will scan the bids and accept the bids if they either are
[/INDENT]
I am guessing that at T-7 days, Finnair will scan the bids and accept the bids if they either are
a) silly high
or
b) they are risking an oversold situation and there are decent bids from flyers they want to upgrade.
The actual process is hidden - Finnair only says "there are a number of factors that decides if your bid is accepted."or
b) they are risking an oversold situation and there are decent bids from flyers they want to upgrade.
[/INDENT]
So, they really are checking the load factor and their revenue management is doing a lot of calculations for this....
Now, just lets see if my bid will go through....EDIT: My bidding for 312€/seat for 2 pax was not enough for Finnair
Last edited by Saturne-79; Feb 29, 2016 at 9:31 am Reason: more info
Feb 22, 2016, 4:14 am
#33
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,178
Interesting to see different tariffs for the biddings. I suppose they are either doing A/B testing or already decided Asia and NA needs different scales.
These numbers sounds a lot like the numbers we have been seeing in the targeted upgrade mail. I'm thinking they might have a lot of statistics from accepted offers on the JFK route, and adjusted the bidding scale appropriately. On Asia, they might not have a lot of statistics (some routes are complimentary upgrade heaven), so they are still hoping to get some bids on the upper end of the 1000€ scale.
These numbers sounds a lot like the numbers we have been seeing in the targeted upgrade mail. I'm thinking they might have a lot of statistics from accepted offers on the JFK route, and adjusted the bidding scale appropriately. On Asia, they might not have a lot of statistics (some routes are complimentary upgrade heaven), so they are still hoping to get some bids on the upper end of the 1000€ scale.
Apr 15, 2016, 9:09 am
#34
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Helsinki-Vantaa APT, Finland
Programs: AY LUMO
Posts: 6,059
I just bidded with one star and 198€ to Delhi. Let's see what happens.
I want to see how much points needed if payment is 100% by points.
And this was just after I received e-mail offer upgrading 248€ to Delhi. And that was 74400 points. Oh yeah.
I want to see how much points needed if payment is 100% by points.
And this was just after I received e-mail offer upgrading 248€ to Delhi. And that was 74400 points. Oh yeah.
Apr 25, 2016, 1:06 pm
#35
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY, SK, TK
Posts: 7,602
So any data points here? It is surprisingly quiet here.
Hopefully we get some data and can create a wiki around them.
Not holding my breath though, AY has already failed before starting, and actually SAS has done it right at once by introducing the new system for bidding upgrades, where you can also use your points to upgrade and get new points (status points too!) according to the upgraded class!
(small print: their system was about to go live today, but their IT is as bad as AY and it errored, so I am still waiting my test rabbit for anytime next days when it is up and live)
Hopefully we get some data and can create a wiki around them.
Not holding my breath though, AY has already failed before starting, and actually SAS has done it right at once by introducing the new system for bidding upgrades, where you can also use your points to upgrade and get new points (status points too!) according to the upgraded class!
(small print: their system was about to go live today, but their IT is as bad as AY and it errored, so I am still waiting my test rabbit for anytime next days when it is up and live)
Jun 1, 2016, 3:48 am
#36
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,178
Well, here is half a datapoint. (Not from personal experience though, I'd never put myself in the position to have to bid for a seat...)
HEL-CAN, suggested bid 600€, allowed bids 200-1000€. All bids, even 1000€ are deemed one star. So probably broken.
CAN-HEL exactly the same, despite the flyer already being upgraded on this segment! So clearly a bug - the system allows you to bid for an upgrade when you already are in F!
Now, comfort is offered at 60€, so the suggested bid is 10x that. And then comfort is a confirmed purchase, while the bid is just a bid.
In points, comfort costs 23k and and J upgrade costs 50k and that is only 2,2x as expensive. That comparison suggests a bid of 130€ to be reasonable...
And somewhere around there is also what the flyer would have been willing to pay. The minimum bid (200€) is the maximum this flyer is willing to offer, so I am not sure this business model is going to be successful. (Just my two cents)
HEL-CAN, suggested bid 600€, allowed bids 200-1000€. All bids, even 1000€ are deemed one star. So probably broken.
CAN-HEL exactly the same, despite the flyer already being upgraded on this segment! So clearly a bug - the system allows you to bid for an upgrade when you already are in F!
Now, comfort is offered at 60€, so the suggested bid is 10x that. And then comfort is a confirmed purchase, while the bid is just a bid.
In points, comfort costs 23k and and J upgrade costs 50k and that is only 2,2x as expensive. That comparison suggests a bid of 130€ to be reasonable...
And somewhere around there is also what the flyer would have been willing to pay. The minimum bid (200€) is the maximum this flyer is willing to offer, so I am not sure this business model is going to be successful. (Just my two cents)
Jul 11, 2016, 5:30 am
#37
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Helsinki-Vantaa APT, Finland
Programs: AY LUMO
Posts: 6,059
My bid for DEL flight is accepted. 198€ in cash.
Should I take it or leave it.....
HEL-DEL is only 6h 20 min flight and after dinner/breakfast hassling etc. time for rest is only 4 hrs.
Should I take it or leave it.....
HEL-DEL is only 6h 20 min flight and after dinner/breakfast hassling etc. time for rest is only 4 hrs.
Jul 11, 2016, 9:56 am
#38
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Seat 1L these days :)
Programs: AF Platinum/AY LUMO/SK EBG/baEC S/HYATT Globalist/MR LTP/A3 *G/HH Dia/IHG plat
Posts: 7,962
I find the comfort seats quite decent
Jul 11, 2016, 10:24 am
#39
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Helsinki-Vantaa APT, Finland
Programs: AY LUMO
Posts: 6,059
I have Comfort 22A and looks like I'm alone there so that extra 198€ (and no more points) is mostly waste of money for Platinum member.
Btw, 100% payment with AY points, that 198€ turns to 59400 points.
Jul 11, 2016, 10:39 am
#40
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY, SK, TK
Posts: 7,602
So you could leave it, it was not a binding offer?
Well, that 198€ is double a euro-shorthaul upgrade offer, so with HEL-DEL flight time it is inline with euro-offers with exception of lie-flat seat and more room on widebody. Amenity kit too
and stuff alike make it well well perhaps more worth then than a euro-upgrade
Well, that 198€ is double a euro-shorthaul upgrade offer, so with HEL-DEL flight time it is inline with euro-offers with exception of lie-flat seat and more room on widebody. Amenity kit too
and stuff alike make it well well perhaps more worth then than a euro-upgrade
Jul 11, 2016, 11:07 am
#41
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Seat 1L these days :)
Programs: AF Platinum/AY LUMO/SK EBG/baEC S/HYATT Globalist/MR LTP/A3 *G/HH Dia/IHG plat
Posts: 7,962
So you could leave it, it was not a binding offer?
Well, that 198€ is double a euro-shorthaul upgrade offer, so with HEL-DEL flight time it is inline with euro-offers with exception of lie-flat seat and more room on widebody. Amenity kit too and stuff alike make it well well perhaps more worth then than a euro-upgrade
Well, that 198€ is double a euro-shorthaul upgrade offer, so with HEL-DEL flight time it is inline with euro-offers with exception of lie-flat seat and more room on widebody. Amenity kit too
and stuff alike make it well well perhaps more worth then than a euro-upgrade
Aug 5, 2016, 4:37 pm
#42
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: PHL, NYC
Programs: AA PLT, DL SLV, UA SLV, MR LTT, HH DIA
Posts: 10,072
Booked a fairly last minute ORD-HEL trip(at T minus a week) and was not offered upgrade auction in MMB, but was offered the option to make an upgrade bid for my return HEL-JFK a week later. Checking expert flyer, my outbound ORD-HEL has just one seat left in J to sell, so I doubt even a last minute offer will come through (or, if it does, will it won't be very "cheap"). So I paid ~$80 extra for an Economy Comfort seat (21A..first row of Y/bulkhead) on that one and will make the best of it.
Return HEL-JFK has J5 showing available up front. Auction is also available for it, so I bid 350 EUR (the minimum was 349...lol). It's a Saturday flight, but showing fairly full, which surprises me a little bit but it is Summer and lots of American vacationers are headed back home. For ~$70, I booked an extra legroom seat in row 41 (exit row) because the desirable Economy Comfort ones were taken and I don't really need the noise canceling headphones or amenity kit if i've already got exit row legroom....But I'll be interested in the upgrade offer if it ever comes.
Any recent price points on HEL-JFK upgrade accepted bids and/or last minute offers?
Return HEL-JFK has J5 showing available up front. Auction is also available for it, so I bid 350 EUR (the minimum was 349...lol). It's a Saturday flight, but showing fairly full, which surprises me a little bit but it is Summer and lots of American vacationers are headed back home. For ~$70, I booked an extra legroom seat in row 41 (exit row) because the desirable Economy Comfort ones were taken and I don't really need the noise canceling headphones or amenity kit if i've already got exit row legroom....But I'll be interested in the upgrade offer if it ever comes.
Any recent price points on HEL-JFK upgrade accepted bids and/or last minute offers?
Aug 6, 2016, 2:32 pm
#43
Join Date: May 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY+ Platinum / OWE
Posts: 112
Booked a fairly last minute ORD-HEL trip(at T minus a week) and was not offered upgrade auction in MMB, but was offered the option to make an upgrade bid for my return HEL-JFK a week later. Checking expert flyer, my outbound ORD-HEL has just one seat left in J to sell, so I doubt even a last minute offer will come through (or, if it does, will it won't be very "cheap"). So I paid ~$80 extra for an Economy Comfort seat (21A..first row of Y/bulkhead) on that one and will make the best of it.
Return HEL-JFK has J5 showing available up front. Auction is also available for it, so I bid 350 EUR (the minimum was 349...lol). It's a Saturday flight, but showing fairly full, which surprises me a little bit but it is Summer and lots of American vacationers are headed back home. For ~$70, I booked an extra legroom seat in row 41 (exit row) because the desirable Economy Comfort ones were taken and I don't really need the noise canceling headphones or amenity kit if i've already got exit row legroom....But I'll be interested in the upgrade offer if it ever comes.
Any recent price points on HEL-JFK upgrade accepted bids and/or last minute offers?
Return HEL-JFK has J5 showing available up front. Auction is also available for it, so I bid 350 EUR (the minimum was 349...lol). It's a Saturday flight, but showing fairly full, which surprises me a little bit but it is Summer and lots of American vacationers are headed back home. For ~$70, I booked an extra legroom seat in row 41 (exit row) because the desirable Economy Comfort ones were taken and I don't really need the noise canceling headphones or amenity kit if i've already got exit row legroom....But I'll be interested in the upgrade offer if it ever comes.
Any recent price points on HEL-JFK upgrade accepted bids and/or last minute offers?
JFK-HEL 48k points, 348€, 348€, 499€
Aug 9, 2016, 8:50 am
#45
Join Date: Jun 2016
Programs: AY+ Platinum (OWE)
Posts: 31
Some detail on the bid available for me:
AY70, HKG-HEL Aug 20, 298€-598€ possible bids.
Star scale:
298-313 1 star
314-328 1.5 star
329-352 2 star
353-376 2.5 star
377-399 3 star
400-421 3.5 star
422-450 4 star
451-478 4.5 star
479-598 5 star
Suggested offer: 418€ (3.5 star)
AY70, HKG-HEL Aug 20, 298€-598€ possible bids.
Star scale:
298-313 1 star
314-328 1.5 star
329-352 2 star
353-376 2.5 star
377-399 3 star
400-421 3.5 star
422-450 4 star
451-478 4.5 star
479-598 5 star
Suggested offer: 418€ (3.5 star)