Finland, Finnair, and credit cards - pre 2020 discussion
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,591
Finland, Finnair, and credit cards - pre 2020 discussion
You can now exchange 5 membership reward points for 4 AY points. "Finland, Sweden, Germany and Austria will launch the first phase of the global partnership agreement this week followed quickly by France, the UK, Italy, Spain, India, Japan, Thailand and Hong Kong on October 3, 2011."
I think it is not a very good exchange rate. Before it was 1 point for 4 FIM, after that it was 1 point for 1 Euro (roughly 6 FIM). After a few year's break it is now just 0.8 point for 1 euro. It is the same rate as for many other FF programmes only that 1 AY point is one kilometer and most other programmes count in miles (or Avios ). Compared with Diners Club this is very lousy (2 points for 1 euro).
I think it is not a very good exchange rate. Before it was 1 point for 4 FIM, after that it was 1 point for 1 Euro (roughly 6 FIM). After a few year's break it is now just 0.8 point for 1 euro. It is the same rate as for many other FF programmes only that 1 AY point is one kilometer and most other programmes count in miles (or Avios ). Compared with Diners Club this is very lousy (2 points for 1 euro).
Last edited by nordic; Sep 23, 2011 at 8:43 am
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: HEL
Programs: lots of shiny metal cards
Posts: 14,070
I appreciate that there is more choice to use my MR points. The exchange rate is what is, it should be compared to what one would get for that
5MR -> 4 AY+
5MR -> 4 BAEC
5MR -> 4 SKEB
I am not too good with the redemption rates/availability of different airlines - SK definitely has the advantage over AY that they don't charge YQ on rewards.
(I wish AMEX would bring back their Hilton co-branded card - that used to be good value)
5MR -> 4 AY+
5MR -> 4 BAEC
5MR -> 4 SKEB
I am not too good with the redemption rates/availability of different airlines - SK definitely has the advantage over AY that they don't charge YQ on rewards.
(I wish AMEX would bring back their Hilton co-branded card - that used to be good value)
#3
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 173
I think the most direct comparison would be between oneworld awards, which are distance based in both FFPs.
So if my calculations were correct, MR points converted to AY+ have about 55 to 67% of the value they have on BAEC, at least when used for oneworld awards.
If used for upgrades (and for the sake of comparison assuming a two-class BA long-haul flight where upgrades directly from Y to J would be possible), the rate would be 20.000-35.000 BA miles (25.000-43.750 MR) vs. 45.000-55.000 AY+ points (56.250-68.750 MR) one way - AY being roughly twice as expensive depending on the destination. Here one must remember, though, that AY+ allows upgrading any economy fare while BAEC only allows Y/B/H, so these are not directly comparable.
AY vs. BA flight rewards might tell yet another story, but all in all: It's a nice addition to the MR program, but I can't see myself converting MR points to AY+ very often. I also can't see how they are going to be competitive with AY's co-branded credit cards.
Code:
BAEC: AY+: 10.000mi = 87.500MR 15.000km = 150.000MR 20.000mi = 125.000MR 35.000km = 225.000MR 50.000mi = 200.000MR 80.000km = 300.000MR
If used for upgrades (and for the sake of comparison assuming a two-class BA long-haul flight where upgrades directly from Y to J would be possible), the rate would be 20.000-35.000 BA miles (25.000-43.750 MR) vs. 45.000-55.000 AY+ points (56.250-68.750 MR) one way - AY being roughly twice as expensive depending on the destination. Here one must remember, though, that AY+ allows upgrading any economy fare while BAEC only allows Y/B/H, so these are not directly comparable.
AY vs. BA flight rewards might tell yet another story, but all in all: It's a nice addition to the MR program, but I can't see myself converting MR points to AY+ very often. I also can't see how they are going to be competitive with AY's co-branded credit cards.
#4
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Helsinki
Programs: BAEC Gold, TK E, HHonors Gold
Posts: 227
I agree. But it is not very likely to happen because Scandic is not part of Hilton anymore and Hilton presence in Nordic countries is very lousy. Finnair co-branded Amex is more likely. Please Amex launch BA card with 2for1 in Finland.
#5
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Programs: BA Gold (OWE), Bonvoy Gold, HH Diamond, PriorityPass, AX Plat
Posts: 525
BA card with 2 for 1... I'd grab that immediately!
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,591
How many membership reward points do you need to be exchanged for a Helsinki-New York return flight in Y?
According to www.americanexpress.fi
Air France/KLM 75 000
British Airways 81 500 (to be changed in November)
Delta 93 750
SAS 75 000
and Finnair 156 500 !!!
According to www.americanexpress.fi
Air France/KLM 75 000
British Airways 81 500 (to be changed in November)
Delta 93 750
SAS 75 000
and Finnair 156 500 !!!
#7
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: HEL
Programs: lots of shiny metal cards
Posts: 14,070
How many membership reward points do you need to be exchanged for a Helsinki-New York return flight in Y?
According to www.americanexpress.fi
Air France/KLM 75 000
British Airways 81 500 (to be changed in November)
Delta 93 750
SAS 75 000
and Finnair 156 500 !!!
According to www.americanexpress.fi
Air France/KLM 75 000
British Airways 81 500 (to be changed in November)
Delta 93 750
SAS 75 000
and Finnair 156 500 !!!
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: HEL
Programs: lots of shiny metal cards
Posts: 14,070
#10
Ambassador: Finnair
Join Date: May 2003
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Lumo, BA Silver, HHonors Gold
Posts: 4,249
Some conclusions from this:
1. AY program is extremely poor with (most) credit cards - DC being a decent value, especially for Plats/Golds
2. almost any flight award with AY is extremely poor value as well, especially the Y awards.
In general, AY plus is a great program for people who fly paid J with AY - (even if you fly a lot paid J/F with other OW carriers AY plus is just not on par)...and use their points for upgrades. For all the rest, well...I rest my case.
1. AY program is extremely poor with (most) credit cards - DC being a decent value, especially for Plats/Golds
2. almost any flight award with AY is extremely poor value as well, especially the Y awards.
In general, AY plus is a great program for people who fly paid J with AY - (even if you fly a lot paid J/F with other OW carriers AY plus is just not on par)...and use their points for upgrades. For all the rest, well...I rest my case.
#11
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: HEL
Programs: lots of shiny metal cards
Posts: 14,070
I don't want to create a new topic so I bring up this one
I had my usual yearly chat with AMEX CS yesterday about waiving the yearly fee for my Amex Gold - they said that since spring 2011 they have a new policy to (automatically?) waive the fee for the main card if the yearly spending is over 15k€ but are not allowed to waive the fee for the companion card. After some more discussion she agreed to waive it as well "this one time". ^
This is a welcome change, no need to remember to call them every year
I had my usual yearly chat with AMEX CS yesterday about waiving the yearly fee for my Amex Gold - they said that since spring 2011 they have a new policy to (automatically?) waive the fee for the main card if the yearly spending is over 15k€ but are not allowed to waive the fee for the companion card. After some more discussion she agreed to waive it as well "this one time". ^
This is a welcome change, no need to remember to call them every year
#12
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 179
You got the companion card fee waived as well? Damn, I had about 25k of usage on the card(s) and still couldn't get the companion card fee waived.
I'll get about 30k this year so should get the main card fee waived easily, but if I won't get the companion card also, then I'll just forget AMEX. I got plenty of other cards to use...
btw. I didn't get the impression that the main card fee is automagically waived.
I'll get about 30k this year so should get the main card fee waived easily, but if I won't get the companion card also, then I'll just forget AMEX. I got plenty of other cards to use...
btw. I didn't get the impression that the main card fee is automagically waived.
#13
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: KUO
Programs: HH Diam, AY/AX/KQ/IHG/VISA Plat, SK/Bonvoy/Melia/Strawberry Gold, Radisson Prem, PP Prest, BT Exec
Posts: 2,248
Slightly OT but:
AX plat travel insurance will be drastically changed on 20th Jan 2012. It used to be not bound to purchasing the tickets using the very physical card of the insured. After that date the travel must be paid at least 75% by the card for the insurance to be in effect. This leaves me practically (almost) uninsured during work related trips paid by my employer (and with significantly worse insurance conditions).
AX plat travel insurance will be drastically changed on 20th Jan 2012. It used to be not bound to purchasing the tickets using the very physical card of the insured. After that date the travel must be paid at least 75% by the card for the insurance to be in effect. This leaves me practically (almost) uninsured during work related trips paid by my employer (and with significantly worse insurance conditions).
#14
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Programs: BA Gold (OWE), Bonvoy Gold, HH Diamond, PriorityPass, AX Plat
Posts: 525
Slightly OT but:
AX plat travel insurance will be drastically changed on 20th Jan 2012. It used to be not bound to purchasing the tickets using the very physical card of the insured. After that date the travel must be paid at least 75% by the card for the insurance to be in effect. This leaves me practically (almost) uninsured during work related trips paid by my employer (and with significantly worse insurance conditions).
AX plat travel insurance will be drastically changed on 20th Jan 2012. It used to be not bound to purchasing the tickets using the very physical card of the insured. After that date the travel must be paid at least 75% by the card for the insurance to be in effect. This leaves me practically (almost) uninsured during work related trips paid by my employer (and with significantly worse insurance conditions).
#15
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: HEL
Programs: AYPlat, BASilver, SQG
Posts: 451
Got a letter this week informing about the changes. Really drastic change and makes one wonder if the Plat is worth the money. Priority Pass cost 399, you can change rewards to airmiles, but I think the insurance has been the best part. Not any more. And they talk about 75% of travel expenses (flights, accomodation) has to be paid with AX, but what if there are no flights involved or hotel does not accept AX or you use airmiles, none of these are mentioned on the terms and conditions found on web....?