Bloggers posting wrong and misleading advice
#286


Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
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Posts: 3,064

On another note, fraud is fraud. Should not matter if it "less serious".
I was on hold for 1 hour and 59 minutes last night calling AAdvantage. I would probably make a post about this and try to pump some AA cards but...I won't.
#288
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend




Join Date: May 1998
Location: Digital Nomad Wandering the Earth - Currently in PARIS, FRANCE!
Posts: 61,972
This is going off topic. The thread is about bloggers posting wrong or misleading advice. There is always going to be a group on Flyertalk critical of bloggers.. which is why they pushed these conversations to an "external miles" section. I would say a majority of readers have no clue these conversations even exist, hence why they get so upset when people point out wrong/misleading information, click bait, killing deals, or pushing links. I would think that out of the most popular bloggers that Ben posts the most accurate information. He may have his own style of writing and opinions, but I think in this thread we should focus in on the actual posting of wrong or misleading information.
Perhaps we can take the general OMMAAT discussion to http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/exter...aat-stuff.html
#289



Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: AA CK, FlyingBlue Plat, WN-CP | Hotels: IHG-Dia HH-Dia, Hyatt-Glob, Marriott-LtPlt
Posts: 2,897
First MileCards posts totally wrong information in the post Southwest Points Are Now Worth MORE Than Before – Here’s When and then VFTW picks it up and spouts the inaccuracy further with this post Are Southwest Points Sometimes Worth Even More Post-Devaluation?
For the correct information, where else to turn? FT, of course!
Here:
Reload this Page Post Your POINTS PER DOLLAR (Pts/$1) Rapid Rewards Award Booking Ratios Here
Their errors lie in failing to look only at BASE fare (as described in the linked FT thread). If they did, they would see that, prior to the recent devaluation, all award flights were priced at 70 points per $1 of base fare and afterwards, the absolute best one could hope for is 70 points per $1 of base fare but many flights cost 74, 76, 78, or 80 points per base fare now.
Since, it'll probably be deleted/modified once they actually realize their errors, here are the incorrect blog posts for posterity.
MileCards: Southwest Points Are Now Worth MORE Than Before – Here’s When
View From the Wing: Are Southwest Points Sometimes Worth Even More Post-Devaluation?
For the correct information, where else to turn? FT, of course!
Here: Reload this Page Post Your POINTS PER DOLLAR (Pts/$1) Rapid Rewards Award Booking Ratios Here
Their errors lie in failing to look only at BASE fare (as described in the linked FT thread). If they did, they would see that, prior to the recent devaluation, all award flights were priced at 70 points per $1 of base fare and afterwards, the absolute best one could hope for is 70 points per $1 of base fare but many flights cost 74, 76, 78, or 80 points per base fare now.
Since, it'll probably be deleted/modified once they actually realize their errors, here are the incorrect blog posts for posterity.
MileCards: Southwest Points Are Now Worth MORE Than Before – Here’s When
Earlier this month, Southwest completely changed the way it values your points. Instead of every Wanna Get Away fare being for sale at the fixed exchange rate of 70 points for a dollar of airfare, it decided to let that exchange rate vary. Some flights it could be higher (more expensive), others would stay at the usual 70 point per dollar rate.
When we looked at prices just after the change, it was generally bad news. Many flights went up in price to 75 or 80 points needed per dollar of airfare, while the rest stayed at the 70 point per dollar rate.
But there is some good news to report….
Southwest just announced a nationwide fare sale that’s open until May 7th, and we were surprised to see the marketing explicitly mention how low the fares are IN POINTS, and not just the cash prices.
Which got us to double checking the point exchange rates being offered.
And looking at the prices, it appears Southwest now offers some flights at a BETTER point exchange rate of 65 points per dollar.
Here are some examples from the current fare sale, with the prices before taxes:

So the lesson is…
Save your Southwest points for flights that are on sale.
Southwest wants you to use points during times when it’s having a harder time filling planes, so it’s willing to give a better price in cash, and now, it’s willing to give you an even better deal in value for your points, by stretching them further.
You can see destinations that are on sale here. Not all sale priced flights offer the good 65 point per dollar rate, but many do. And some that aren’t on sale do as well.
In some ways, this is like the way JetBlue handles its mileage program, with less expensive flights generally available at a more favorable point exchange rate.
When we looked at prices just after the change, it was generally bad news. Many flights went up in price to 75 or 80 points needed per dollar of airfare, while the rest stayed at the 70 point per dollar rate.
But there is some good news to report….
Southwest just announced a nationwide fare sale that’s open until May 7th, and we were surprised to see the marketing explicitly mention how low the fares are IN POINTS, and not just the cash prices.
Which got us to double checking the point exchange rates being offered.
And looking at the prices, it appears Southwest now offers some flights at a BETTER point exchange rate of 65 points per dollar.
Here are some examples from the current fare sale, with the prices before taxes:

So the lesson is…
Save your Southwest points for flights that are on sale.
Southwest wants you to use points during times when it’s having a harder time filling planes, so it’s willing to give a better price in cash, and now, it’s willing to give you an even better deal in value for your points, by stretching them further.
You can see destinations that are on sale here. Not all sale priced flights offer the good 65 point per dollar rate, but many do. And some that aren’t on sale do as well.
In some ways, this is like the way JetBlue handles its mileage program, with less expensive flights generally available at a more favorable point exchange rate.
In 2013 Southwest proved that even revenue-based programs devalue. Just two years into their new program they reduced the value of points on Wanna Get Away fares from 1.67 cents apiece to 1.43 cents apiece.
Then mid-April they devalued again, breaking away from having a fixed value for points.
Instead of being revenue-based where points are worth a certain amount period, or a certain amount for certain types of fares, they now have a value which changes — and is unpublished.
It appeared initially as though it cost 70 to 80 points per dollar for ‘Wanna Get Away’ fares — the more expensive the fare, the more you need your points, the less valuable they become.
It does appear though that it’s possible to do better than 70 points per dollar now. It’s not possible to do as well as prior to the 2013 devaluation, but as MileCards noted you may be able to get 65 points per dollar when redeeming for certain sale fares.
So they’re making your points worth a little more than before (but not as much as they used to be worth) when planes are empty enough to warrant a sale. That makes sense. On the absolute cheapest fares, when you’d otherwise just pay cash, you can get a better value for your points.
Then mid-April they devalued again, breaking away from having a fixed value for points.
Instead of being revenue-based where points are worth a certain amount period, or a certain amount for certain types of fares, they now have a value which changes — and is unpublished.
It appeared initially as though it cost 70 to 80 points per dollar for ‘Wanna Get Away’ fares — the more expensive the fare, the more you need your points, the less valuable they become.
It does appear though that it’s possible to do better than 70 points per dollar now. It’s not possible to do as well as prior to the 2013 devaluation, but as MileCards noted you may be able to get 65 points per dollar when redeeming for certain sale fares.
So they’re making your points worth a little more than before (but not as much as they used to be worth) when planes are empty enough to warrant a sale. That makes sense. On the absolute cheapest fares, when you’d otherwise just pay cash, you can get a better value for your points.
#290



Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: AA CK, FlyingBlue Plat, WN-CP | Hotels: IHG-Dia HH-Dia, Hyatt-Glob, Marriott-LtPlt
Posts: 2,897
LOL - MileCards.com still doesn't get it after my explanation (at least not yet).
Here was my explanation:
They posted:
BUT, the actual Fare Breakdown is:
Base Fare $139.44
+ Excise Taxes $10.46
SUBTOTAL $149.90
+ Segment Fee $4.00
+ Passenger Facility Charge $4.50
+ Security Fee $5.60
Total per Passenger $164.00
x 1 Passenger(s)
Total $164.00
So, I posted (as it is awaiting moderation...I bet it'll never see the light of day):
Here was my explanation:
This post is wrong. Look at the FT and maybe you’ll understand that pre-devaluation ratios were based on BASE fares. You are comparing apples and oranges in this post.
@FindAWay – All the calculations above use base fares. The latest FT calculations weren’t made while the current fare sale is in effect.
Take a look at LAX-MDW on 5/23.
The 5:10pm is pricing at $149.90 base fare ($164 all in).
Southwest is asking for 9,761 points. That’s 65 points per dollar off the $149.90 base fare.
Other flights and times vary, but 65 point per dollar ratios do now exist. Question is will they disappear when the fare sale ends.
Take a look at LAX-MDW on 5/23.
The 5:10pm is pricing at $149.90 base fare ($164 all in).
Southwest is asking for 9,761 points. That’s 65 points per dollar off the $149.90 base fare.
Other flights and times vary, but 65 point per dollar ratios do now exist. Question is will they disappear when the fare sale ends.
Base Fare $139.44
+ Excise Taxes $10.46
SUBTOTAL $149.90
+ Segment Fee $4.00
+ Passenger Facility Charge $4.50
+ Security Fee $5.60
Total per Passenger $164.00
x 1 Passenger(s)
Total $164.00
So, I posted (as it is awaiting moderation...I bet it'll never see the light of day):
@MileCards.com. NOPE! You’re Wrong. Base Fare on those flights is $139.44. Excise Taxes are $10.46….you’re adding the two. Please see this post on FT to understand the error of your ways: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/south...tios-here.html
Let’s do some math: 9,761/$139.44 = 70 points per $1 of base fare.
Do you understand yet?
Let’s do some math: 9,761/$139.44 = 70 points per $1 of base fare.
Do you understand yet?
#291



Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: AA CK, FlyingBlue Plat, WN-CP | Hotels: IHG-Dia HH-Dia, Hyatt-Glob, Marriott-LtPlt
Posts: 2,897
At least MileCards has now corrected/updated, which is refreshing to see: Southwest Points Are (Not) Worth More Than Before
As for VFTW, nearly 3 hours later and my comments remain awaiting moderation and Gary has not changed anything in the post.
Update Ignore our speculation. Thanks to FindAWay and William for pointing out we were using the wrong base fare 70 points per dollar is still the lowest ratio available.
Earlier this month, Southwest completely changed the way it values your points. Instead of every Wanna Get Away fare being for sale at the fixed exchange rate of 70 points for a dollar of airfare, it decided to let that exchange rate vary. Some flights it could be higher (more expensive), others would stay at the usual 70 point per dollar rate.
When we analyzed prices and ratios just after the change, it was generally bad news. Many flights went up in price to 75 or 80 points needed per dollar of airfare, while the rest stayed at the 70 point per dollar rate.
But there is some good news to report.
Southwest just announced a nationwide fare sale thats open until May 7th, and we were surprised to see the marketing explicitly mention how low the fares are IN POINTS, and not just the cash prices.
Which got us to double checking the point exchange rates being offered.
And looking at the prices, it appears Southwest now offers some flights at a BETTER point exchange rate of 65 points per dollar.
So the lesson is..save your Southwest points for flights that are on sale.
Southwest wants you to use points during times when its having a harder time filling planes, so its willing to give a better price in cash, and its variable pricing sometimes gives you a better deal in value for your points on cheaper flights, by stretching them further.
You can see destinations that are on sale here.Not all sale priced flights offer the good 65 point per dollar rate, but many do. And some that arent on sale do as well.
In some ways, this is like the way JetBlue handles its mileage program, with less expensive flights generally available at a more favorable point exchange rate.
Earlier this month, Southwest completely changed the way it values your points. Instead of every Wanna Get Away fare being for sale at the fixed exchange rate of 70 points for a dollar of airfare, it decided to let that exchange rate vary. Some flights it could be higher (more expensive), others would stay at the usual 70 point per dollar rate.
When we analyzed prices and ratios just after the change, it was generally bad news. Many flights went up in price to 75 or 80 points needed per dollar of airfare, while the rest stayed at the 70 point per dollar rate.
Southwest just announced a nationwide fare sale thats open until May 7th, and we were surprised to see the marketing explicitly mention how low the fares are IN POINTS, and not just the cash prices.
Which got us to double checking the point exchange rates being offered.
So the lesson is..save your Southwest points for flights that are on sale.
Southwest wants you to use points during times when its having a harder time filling planes, so its willing to give a better price in cash, and its variable pricing sometimes gives you a better deal in value for your points on cheaper flights, by stretching them further.
You can see destinations that are on sale here.
In some ways, this is like the way JetBlue handles its mileage program, with less expensive flights generally available at a more favorable point exchange rate.
As for VFTW, nearly 3 hours later and my comments remain awaiting moderation and Gary has not changed anything in the post.
#292
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
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#293



Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: AA CK, FlyingBlue Plat, WN-CP | Hotels: IHG-Dia HH-Dia, Hyatt-Glob, Marriott-LtPlt
Posts: 2,897
As Joe Friday would say, these are just the facts. You added "whole". Not me..
Reread what you quoted with that in mind. Or not, because you seem to attribute opinion where none was.
#294
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
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Posts: 21,286
You do know you can queue blog posts in publishing systems to publish at specific times, right? So I wouldn't impute anything by that fact, if we're going to strictly discuss facts.
Last edited by eponymous_coward; Apr 30, 2015 at 12:58 pm
#295



Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: AA CK, FlyingBlue Plat, WN-CP | Hotels: IHG-Dia HH-Dia, Hyatt-Glob, Marriott-LtPlt
Posts: 2,897
Yes, of course. So, are you saying that you think VFTW queued a post about a possible "glitch" in BA redemptions (which is one of the titles of those 2 posts) rather than posting instantly?
#297




Join Date: May 2006
Location: SAN
Programs: Lots of faux metal
Posts: 7,025
Not too busy as he is still replying to comments. And, I'm willing to bet Gary isn't the only person that posts to that blog or has the ability to edit posts.
#298
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 526
Thanks Find A Way for taking up the cause, I tried to explain in my original comment that his calculations were wrong and was told I was wrong so I just gave up. Glad to see that MileCards has updated the post, I'm sure Gary will do the same soon.
#299




Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,677
Glad to see both corrected their posts. For bloggers that hold themselves out as experts*, mistakes on such a basic thing as the WN RapidRewards points calculation shouldn't really be happening. Particularly when it was quite easy to quickly fact check (on the FT thread or independently) and when it took more than one try by commenters to point out their errors.
*MileCards:
*And of course VFTW is the Thought Leader in Travel
*MileCards:
Experts In The Loyalty Field, With MileCards.Com Analysis and Insight Cited In Dozens Of Publications
#300



Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: AA CK, FlyingBlue Plat, WN-CP | Hotels: IHG-Dia HH-Dia, Hyatt-Glob, Marriott-LtPlt
Posts: 2,897
Yes, I definitely appreciate how quickly MileCards reacted. No one is perfect and errors are made by all of us - it is part of being human.
VFTW updated his post within the past hour (so, a bit more than a full day after several comments to the post noted that it was erroneous) with the following at the top:
Update: Sadly no such bargains to be found, I reported on this without checking the math. Still just 70 points per dollar the best you can do.

