Originally Posted by gpapadop

One of the best posts I have seen, wow!!!

Maybe we can place it as a wiki!

If this was posted in my blog I would have made it MVP of the day definitely!

Thank you!

Originally Posted by FlyFasterFlyFarther

We always give the best advice possible to our clients. We tell them when we believe that afterwork is going to be helpful to them. We don't take afterwork just for the sake of billable hours.

We don't recommend competitors to do the things we're bidding to do -- because we only do the things we're really good at. And because we're really good, we get plenty of work.

Doing stuff that isn't in our wheel house, or that doesn't add value, is a waste of our time as well as a waste of the client's money. We're going to make more focusing on jobs where we add to their bottom line. And that leads to long-term partnerships rather than short-term engagements where we milk a bit of extra money until the client figures out they can live without paying us. Plus it boosts our reputation -- clients do what we say, and pay us what we say, because they know they can trust us and they know we get results. We don't waste their time (or their money).

So maybe I'm biased by my own experience in business, and maybe I don't know about how this blogging stuff really works. But I believe that if you offer the best advice that's tailored to your client or your reader (note that it must be specific to their needs, so sometimes the best advice for a Flyertalker won't be the best advice for a newbie) they will love you for it and reward you for it.

You don't make money as a travel provider, as a consultant, or as a blogger by treating your customer as the enemy, as someone you hope doesn't figure out the value proposition, as someone to be fleeced. You do the best you can for them with a business model that allows you to reap rewards.

And it isn't just about hard work either. Who cares if a blog post took 80 hours or 30 minutes? Did it help the reader improve their travel life? Then it was worthwhile. Did it help them improve their travel life a lot? Then it might even be "credit card affiliate income worthwhile."

By the by, I think there are a ton of blogs that do this very poorly. A bunch that probably got into this because it looked like other FTers were making money off of it. Some who start off good and then undermine their credibiltiy, give less than the best possible advice, are clearly just out to make a buck. And it's fine to make a buck! But it doesn't work so well if you aren't pairing that with offering the best content you possibly can, day in and day out, and never giving bad advice because it pays better.

I've been watching these threads. I think there are a lot of unfair criticisms, I've even found myself in the odd predicament of defending a lot of the bloggers when the snark has seemed unfair. But I have zero patience at all for someone selling crappy advice -- or advice that isn't as good as what you would do yourself (but for the affiliate commission).

I apologize for going on so long.

Originally Posted by brooklynmatt

I think theoretically you are correct, but in reality there is a disconnect. I don't get the impression you actually are compensated based upon bid win rather bid delivery. Is that incorrect?

To be a little more specific how much (as a percentage) of your AGI is determined from your personal successful closure of a new account and how much is determined from project delivery?

Originally Posted by FlyFasterFlyFarther

Seriously??? I've never asked a blogger how much they make if I sign up for the Chase Sapphire Preferred card. It's enough for me to know that hey have a financial relationship with Chase when they're making the recommendation.

But fine. Up to 50% of my comp is at risk, based on total revenue for my division. And we bring in a ton more revenue by delivering quality work than we do selling one-off engagements that turn to crud.

Originally Posted by FlyFasterFlyFarther

You're guessing you know my compensation structure? Hah. 50% of my total comp is at-risk, which is to say that my bonus can easily equal my entire base. I've revealed that already. Which says absolutely nothing about the ethics of blogging, so I think we're done here.

Originally Posted by FlyFasterFlyFarther

Rather than telling me that I can't understand the "real world of blogging" (sic) because my at risk compensation "isn't really at risk" (tell that to the partners!), why don't you try explaining to me where I'm actually wrong-headed?

There are a handful of bloggers that I think do this well, their existence proves my point. And I'm not talking about Frequent Miler, who both does this well I think and aesthetically pleases many here. I don't have a problem with monthly "10 best credit cards" posts -- that pay the blogger -- as long as the advice is sound Compromise the advice, you're not worth reading, eventually your readers will wise up and it won't be profitable to sell to suckers.

I'm one of "the angries" but I'm really not that angry. There are at least half a dozen bloggers who write about credit cards that I nonetheless still read because I find value in their posts (and I don't throw my laptop). I don't mind that they want me to sign up for a Chase Ink Bold or a Barclay ArrivalWhatever. I do mind if they're trying to trick me into doing A when B would make me better off, and when they darned well know about B and that it would make me and the rest of their readers better off. To me, that's the standard.

Tell me where I'm wrong?

Originally Posted by brooklynmatt

You're not wrong, just idealistic. If you earned differently your perspective would change.

Originally Posted by FlyFasterFlyFarther

Again, how?

Originally Posted by FlyFasterFlyFarther

Rather than telling me that I can't understand the "real world of blogging" (sic) because my at risk compensation "isn't really at risk" (tell that to the partners!), why don't you try explaining to me where I'm actually wrong-headed?

There are a handful of bloggers that I think do this well, their existence proves my point. And I'm not talking about Frequent Miler, who both does this well I think and aesthetically pleases many here. I don't have a problem with monthly "10 best credit cards" posts -- that pay the blogger -- as long as the advice is sound Compromise the advice, you're not worth reading, eventually your readers will wise up and it won't be profitable to sell to suckers.

I'm one of "the angries" but I'm really not that angry. There are at least half a dozen bloggers who write about credit cards that I nonetheless still read because I find value in their posts (and I don't throw my laptop). I don't mind that they want me to sign up for a Chase Ink Bold or a Barclay ArrivalWhatever. I do mind if they're trying to trick me into doing A when B would make me better off, and when they darned well know about B and that it would make me and the rest of their readers better off. To me, that's the standard.

Tell me where I'm wrong?

Originally Posted by yerffej201

You have to remember that Frequent Miler is best at his niche - finding the perpetual points machine. He's the only blog that can avoid posts shouting the great 75k AMEX BIZ GOLD deal and still have clicks. If any other blogger tried following what he did, then that blog wouldn't be profitable. Which is fine, but nobody who is making good money already is going to do that.

Originally Posted by brooklynmatt

Theortically it's all the same, but when it's your backside on the line moral choices become a lot more complex.

Originally Posted by brooklynmatt

You also have to remember that as a member of BA Frequent Miler gets revenue from front page ads offering credit card signups far below what can be had out there, such as the 30k UA card.

They're not 'his' ads in the page but he takes the lions share of the money- which you know well.

Originally Posted by FlyFasterFlyFarther

Let's take it out of the moral realm. There are high-quality bloggers and bloggers who don't produce as much quality, aren't as worth reading. I want to read the good ones.

In general I think that Lucky is pretty good. I don't mind him posting about credit cards, I don't think he'd knowingly post less than the best offer (I recall seeing where he did once, it was pointed out to him, and he quickly corrected it).

MileValue I don't like and won't read anymore. He kept pushing that darned US Airways Mastercard with a lower bonus and without the fee waiver because it paid him when there was a much better offer that didn't require his readers to come out of pocket. When readers pointed out that he was pushing less than the best deal, he deleted their comments. i don't trust what he tells me.

I don't see anything wrong with taking information that exists publicly online and making the information more available and more clearly explained so that more people can make use of it. I do think that someone should give credit where it's due, acknowledging where they found that information.

I don't see anything wrong with making money when they do it. I don't have a problem with ads. I don't have a problem with good content that's supported by credit card links, but that should be disclosed. We can argue whether the disclosure should be at the top of the post or bottom of the post, but it should be prominent and not buried in fine print.

But I will patronize the blogs that do the best job and produce the best content, whom I can trust to do their best to do right by their readers and not try to fleece their readers.

Again, leave aside moral judgments. As a consumer, that's what I'm looking for. I suspect a lot of others are too. And so there's plenty of opportunity and upside in doing a good job as a blogger to deliver the best information. Even if you have to make rent. (And c'mon, how many of these bloggers just had to do it full time? And can't supplement their affiliate income by booking awards or something? Many of them do it. I just suspect the lives of most of these folks aren't nearly as dire as you suggest.)