UnitedFFinAsia

My guess is their first two 777 ELR's will be used to fly direct to EWR without the stop in SEA as it has to be killing EVA flying a plane half full from SEA-EWR or approximately 2450 miles. As for other routes it is anyones guess.
-UFFA

jimyvr

EVA is still evaluating whether to take 772LR. It depends on whether there's a need for 772LR nonstop or 773ER via SEA.

username

Wow, so the 772L thing is still not a done deal? I thought it would help the launch of 777F and would work with EVA's long term freighter strategy.

I have always enjoyed these SEA-EWR segments. In F, they would roll out a big pie/cake and you could be the only person eating it

This is what I don't understand. If UA/CO can do 777-200ER on EWR/JFK-HKG, why can't BR with 777-300ER? Is it because they don't have over-fly authority for Mainland China and (until recently) South Korea? Or, they don't want to weight-restrict the plane since cargo is important to them? Or, they think over-the-pole ETOPS is too risky?

ihate2fly

BR has previously mentioned the B773ERs will first deploy to Europe (LHR, to be more specific). I believe their schedule has been updated to show this (beginning 15 September via BKK). The first 2 B773ERs will mainly fly intra-Asia for crew orientation until 15 September (mostly TPE-BKK-TPE). I don't look for the B773ERs to deploy to the US until the 2007 aircraft are delivered.

BR still has the order for the B772LR but I read (can't remember where) they would probably switch those out to B773ERs or B772LRFs. Either way, it's my opinion they'd like to quit the EWR route via SEA and go nonstop...adding a seperate SEA flight.

Just thought I'd add the reminder that BR is phasing out F with their new planes. They're said to be Premium Laurel (C), Evergreen Deluxe (Y+), and Economy.

BR New Aircraft Delivery Schedule

B773ER x 12 - Jul 05, Aug 05, May 06, Oct 06, Jan 07, Apr 07, July 07, Dec 07, May 08, July 08, Oct 08, June 09

B772LR x 3 - Mar 2008, June 2008, Mar 2009

A332 x 3 - July 2005, Oct 2005, June 2006

username

That is a pretty slow delivery schedule. I guess the two this year will support LHR + intra-Asia. Then, the two in 2006 will probably do another Europe route (CDG?).

Maybe they will have to retrofit the 744s after all. Take the oldest ones out of service and retrofit the newest ones with the new cabin (all 3 classes including AVOD).

The big question is when will Mainland China service start. That can add significant cargo and, probably to a less extend, passenger demand on the fleet (some capacity will come from cutting HKG and MFM services).

In the late 90s, they had TPE-SEA-JFK and TPE-SEA-EWR, they also tried TPE-ANC-EWR and TPE-SEA-ANC-SEA (MD11 needed a technical landing because there was no crew rest, I heard). My guess is the 744 is too big to do both SEA and NYC separately 6x-7x a week. The 777 would change that when it gets here.

EVA Air

I really have my doubts whether or not EVA even wants to operate TPE-EWR non-stop. My impression is that the TPE-SEA segment carries most of the load.

EVA Air

I believe the 744s will be retrofitted as well. I'm just very disappointed that they're taking so long to start.

jimyvr

The 744s will not be retrofitted. At least 5-6 of them will be converted to freighter as more 777s joining.

Original delivery schedule for 772LR was 2006, but pushed back to 2007, and now 2008. According to Boeing, EVA is one of the possible launch customer team for 772LRF.

Current 773ER schedule shows TPE-BKK on BR211/212 only starting 06AUG.

ihate2fly

You are correct in the first 2 points. On the 3rd point, well, I'll be looking forward to them as I've got my seats settled in Premium Laurel mid-August. I was planning on a small trip report when I get back.

Also, the answer username's question, yes, BR's 2nd airport in Europe for the B773ERs was scheduled to be CDG. It still is as far as I know.

Don't put me down for this statement as 100% correct, but I believe those were the 2 destinations for BR to get service with the B773ER before the US....LHR, CDG, US destinations. I always keep an ear open and will post when I see something definitive.

rkkwan

I don't know how important this is, but I believe BR (and CI for that matter) needs the ultra-longhaul planes more for their European flights than it needs them for N. American flights.

That's because they can't fly over China airspace.

For example, CI only has non-stops to FRA and VIE, and BR only has CDG. If you look at their flight times, both ways take about 13:30 on their schedule. In contrast, HKG-Europe overflying China means about 11:30 westbound, <11 eastbound. Taiwanese carriers are burning a lot more fuel and time going to Europe, with or without a stop in BKK.

773ERs and 777LRs may mean they can do Europe flights more efficiently, and increase their frequencies. Both CI and BR's Europe timetable look pretty pathetic compared to their N. American operations.

I could be totally wrong, but maybe that was the reason...

EVA Air

I still believe that some 744s will be retrofitted even though a majority of the fleet will eventually face retirement or conversion. In 2003, EVA Air mentioned that it will reconfigure its existing aircraft with Premium Laurel. I'm banking on them to keep their word.

But if you and ihate2fly are correct, we basically can't expect AVOD or Premium Laurel on our long-haul North American routes until 2007-2008? If true, I'll definitely stop flying EVA Air in protest. I don't think I'll be the only one. I agree EVA Air has a unparallel success in the Premium Economy market, but it needs to be more competitive in the Business Class market.

EVA Air

Even though going thru BKK is fuel-consuming and slower. I believe the stop brings lots of traffic, either TPE-BKK or BKK and the European cities.

username

I think if BR does any reconfiguration, it could be just changing F and C on the 744s into Evergreen Laurel. I doubt they will redo the 744 ED and Y. If the load is good and they can get the price they want, why spend extra money?

Another interesting thing...BR is returning the older MD11s as the leases expire. The first one they returned got leased out to Shanghai Airlines Cargo. That of course added speculations.

There are a lot of things that can change in the next few years on the China front. If Taiwan and Mainland China start cargo service, I would guess they might also get over-fly rights. That could change the aircraft needs of CI and BR. Then there is the proposed opening of tourists from China and the eventual direct passenger service.

From postings online, it seems both BR and CI do a lot of business between BKK and Europe. Someone even said that CI only did TPE-VIE nonstop because the Thai government would not grant them additional 5th freedom capacity.

jimyvr

It'll be a waste of money to reconfigure the 744 since they're expected to leave in 3-4 years.

BKK has been a big hit for EVA and China Airlines since most of its european revenue came from Bangkok-Europe sector.

Steve Fenton

You say BKK TPE has been a success for BR & CI, I cant see this as these legs tend to be pretty empty most of the time, they fill up when they fly onto Europe, but the cargo they get on the 747's is usually pretty full.

The eco deluxe I think is being lost by BR as its too old and the new fittings will be charged at much more than current prices and you can get biz class with CI for the same.