Ancien Maestro

Childswap in DL and WDW is different.. where WDW allows up to 3 guests on return entry, DL only allows one guest.. So I'll look up how childswap works at DLP..

Handicap passes would only work if Grandma came along.. but we had more than enough fast passes that we barely used it all.. I had 14 fast passes and child swaps the last day, and with each entry we obtained another childswap pass, which doubled the entries for all of us to access through the fast lines at DL.. going through the number of rides is a bit mesmerizing.. especially with lines an hour long, we were on the next ride within 10 minutes..

Regarding the free parking you mentioned.. its clearly posted that you can't park DTD and ride to the theme parks.. however, there is other legitimate free parking.. but this is not the fora to share..

Anyways, I'm not too worried about working the system in Paris.. I just want to go and enjoy the parks with the kids, and have enough time to try out all of the major character dinings.. We've even got a character dining experience booked on Oahu at Aulani.

I'm still on the fence what to book for our Hawaii trip.. lots to finalize.. we'll be on three islands and I'm torn to miss our holy grail deal on BI.. but my wife wants to try something different.

As an update to EU, we've decided not to exercise the RCCL cruise option for now.. seems a bit rich and a tourist trap.. plus there are always last minute deals, so I don't want to commit to a cruise line just yet. tempting to only pay $199 per child, but went with our gut instinct, and decided to back off so we are completely flexible on our taking advantage of deals with our itinerary..

exbayern

To be clear, I do not agree with any of the 'juicy secrets' or 'working the system' which some people seem to advocate for the US parks. But the parks in France operate very differently, and similar attempts to bypass systems won't work there.

I'm glad that you have put aside the cruise idea. Frankly, with the ages of your children I think that you wouldn't get much out of it as most excursions and port activities would be out of the question for your older child, and your younger would most likely have spent most of the time in the onboard nursery.

Someone earlier mentioned a river cruise, which is a very different experience but may be a better option with two very young children in terms of endurance. Children are however not encouraged on some of these, and not permitted at all on others. And generally there are no facilities for children onboard.

Ancien Maestro

I think a river cruise would be out of the question for us.. and as you said there are minimal child facilities, and we're looking for child friendly experience..

As for juicy secrets.. they aren't really juicy at all.. The little known secrets are legal and encouraged by Disney to use.. as for the parking at DTD, there are signs clearly posted that this is not allowed, and bus drivers actually refuse riders who are going to the theme parks from DTD, not showing proof they are staying at DWD hotel.. As I'm hoping, we won't discuss the merits of secrets, other than the fact they do exist.. and tips probably do exist at DLP as well. I'm just not there to work the system, but to enjoy a nice experience for the family and kids..

We are a restaurant and character experience type of family.. unfortunately, I'm not too sure that'll we'll be able to hit all of the good restaurants we will want to based on our length of stay..

I'm also not ruling out a cruise.. just not going to commit to the cruise we were thinking about at this time.. we will likely book something because our 2 year old isn't allowed on land tour buses..

But freeing up a flexible 3 weeks gives perspective.. I really would like to visit the neighboring countries beside France.. The cruise would have allowed us to hit up 3 or 4 different countries.. perhaps we will take this time to consider a land excursion of different countries and weigh it up against a cruise..

HNLSFOandBeyond

BadgerBoi, I wanted to PM you but couldn't find the button to do so... I was hoping to ask you for some information on the company you use to rent an apartment in Paris. We are planning a trip to Paris and London this summer (also for the Olympics) and would love to find an apartment in Paris to stay in.

Thank you!!!

-Jennifer

BadgerBoi

Hi Jennifer, I've sent you a PM. Can you pls let me know if you received it?
Hope it was helpful.
BB

exbayern

I really think that you need to sit back and take some time to do more research.

Why do you want to 'hit up' 3 or 4 more countries in addition to France, England and Scotland, or even 10 as you said in your first post? Is this some sort of challenge, and do you expect to just check countries off a list? I said earlier that European Vacation was a documentary, and I was only half joking. Many of us have experienced the person who runs around 'Europe', checking off countries and cities, 'doing' the Louvre in an hour, and then returning home thinking that they 'did Europe' while they never experienced the local culture or took the time to appreciate things.

A Mediterranean cruise with a 2 year old and a 6 year old will be extremely limiting, and you won't be able to participate in most things. The 2 year old will not be permitted in children's programming, nor in the swimming pool. You are better off leaving them onboard during shore excursions, which will cost a lot of money for the nursery (if that ship even permits it, as many do not change diapers).

With a 2 year old and 6 year old all shore excursions are off limits to you. You will either have to make your own arrangements using public transport, or be paying a lot of money for a private service.

Many of the ports will be tender ports. With a stroller, Venice, Cinque Terre, Eze, Villefranche, Monaco, Pompeii, Acropolis, Ephesus, San Pietro are not even an option (along with many other ports/sights). Plan to carry the child almost everywhere in 30-35 degree weather with high humidity. Your 6 year old will struggle with most of those locations as well. (You should all be prepared to walk 8-10km/day up and down stairs, and cobbled streets, which is nothing like walking 8-10km/day in Disneyworld) Rome, Nice, Antibes are a little better, but there are still cobblestoned streets not made for strollers, certain areas will be impossible with a stroller, and there will be heavy crowds in peak season. Cannes may be a little more stroller friendly, but you won't be able to claim a few grains of sand on the tiny public beach, and forget taking a stroller along Rue d'Antibes. Those are just a few examples; the vast majority of ports will not be accessible to your small child if in a stroller.

And if you do still do not plan not to bring any trousers, then the main dining room, San Pietro, and many churches around Europe will be off limits to you.

With all those things which are off limits, you are better off planning what many of us have suggested: renting a flat in one location for 7-10 days, and savouring and actually experiencing the local area and culture. You can do day trips suitable for children.

My advice is to stop thinking about the cruise. If you really want to do one, wait until 2013 and be robbed blind cruise with Disney when they return to the Mediterranean. You will still face a lot of limits, and it will still be extremely taxing on your family, but your child will be 3 and out of diapers so hopefully a few more things will be open to you.

lewisc

+1 DCL is likely to give you the kind of experience you're looking for. Does DCL let you put a child in a youth club while the adults take a shore excursion? The adults get to visit sites the kids have no interest in seeing. The kids have a good time. Disney gets $$$. Win Win Win

Do we even know if DCL is returning to Europe next year? Weren't the airlines taking too high a % of the vacation budget? Isn't that why the Alaska cruises now leave out of Seattle?

I don't think you'll enjoy the kind of trip you're talking about with a 2 and 6 year old. I agree with the PP, it doesn't make that much sense to fly to France just to spend a week in Disney. Where I differ is the kind of trip that makes sense, visiting museums, historical sites, landmarks etc won't really work with your kids. A ship with kids activities only makes sense if the parents can leave the kids at the club while they do shore excursions.

exbayern

I know that it is possible on their Caribbean/Mexican cruises (to leave children in the clubs whilst ashore) but on the European ones don't really know. I suspect that the number of people taking children under about age 8 on a Disney European cruise is very, very low due to the high cost and poor value, especially compared to other cruise lines. I used to see on Sunday mornings this summer DCL passengers (hard to miss people in Mickey Mouse tshirts, shorts, and those Mickey things around their necks) struggling to climb just two streets up from the water. I am referring to adults, who couldn't deal with the cobblestoned streets in the heat and humidity of southern France in summer.

There are rumours that DCL may return in 2013 with an eastern Mediterranean itinerary, but I don't know if that will happen. They had to reduce their 2011 western Mediterranean ones from 11 days to 7 days in order to fill them, and I think that their target audience is still somewhat novice travellers who are fearful of travelling to so called 'scary' places. Both DCL and ABD changed itineraries quite a bit in the last two years as a result.

(Frankly, people who think that gelato is too exotic and refuse to eat it are the type I believe who would avoid wonderful places such as Turkey, not to mention other countries common on eastern itineraries.)

But you are correct - the high cost/low value of Disney combined with airfare from North America makes it absurdly expensive. On another thread I priced out a 5 day/6 night tour of Germany at over $40,000 for a family of four! And the cruises are similarly poor value.

Ancien Maestro

Speaking of cruises.. have the prices gone down since Costa tanked?

The deaths onboard Costa must be impacting sales of cruises..

I agree, anything Disney is going to have a price premium attached to it, and usually the deals arent' really deals at all, but takes the price down to just above market, and is available to everyone. Even if Disney cruises are available, it'll always be hardpressed for us to justify such an experience based on the coin..

It may not make sense for us to take a trip to Europe, just to experience 4 or 5 days at Euro Disney, but its something we want to do.. and I'm not saying its for everyone, but the kids will love it, and we'll carry the memories with us a very long time.

As an update, we did book the Plaza NY for 6 nights before arriving London Heathrow. We're thinking of resting for a night and heading straight to DLC for 4 or 5 nights, thereafter going to Paris and touring the sites.. but the whole itinerary is open until August 7th when we're at the Olympics.. I wouldn't mind getting a cruise which lands in UK for some certainty.

I'm throwing around the idea of booking the London Savoy for a 3 night stay towards the end of the trip. Its pricey, but we've found some ok rates, plus have a few FPC plat free nights we could use.

lewisc

Reducing the cruises from 11 to 7 days probably made the cruises competitive with other cruise lines 11 and 12 day itineraries.

You're obviously not putting enough value in cruising with Mickey.

DCL don't have casinos and art auctions. They have to replace that revenue with higher fares. The DCL cabins are slightly bigger then other cruise lines. I don't know if the difference is enough so a family of 3 (or 4) would be comfortable with one cabin instead of 2.

All reports suggest Costa was 100% human error. Sales of cars don't go down every time we see a car crash on our local news. I haven't read anything which suggests cruise sales are taking a hit.

Why don't you research which cruise lines work for you. I'd look for child care that can be used while the adults are taking a shore excursion. Research how many cabins you'll need. Mini-suite? Then ask your TA to check for "flash promotions". Those are generally offered after the final payment deadline to dump unsold cabins. Most cruises go out over 100% booked. Some people are able to get great last minute deals.

exbayern

2013 was announced today.

The return to Alaska from Vancouver surprises me due to the airfare differences you note, but I suspect that DCL is low on the list for the ever more crowded Port of Seattle.

For Europe, they are attempting 4 and 7 and 12 night cruises during a rather short three month season. Remember, in 2013 they will have 4 ships to fill, and the demand won't necessarily continue to be as high in past, especially if they continue with their absurd pricing model. They are doing a rather conservative 'eastern Med' itinerary I suspect to appeal to the generally non-adventurous traveller they tend to attract. No more northern Africa, for instance. Four eastern Med sailings in total is not a lot. And the 4 and 7 night are really rather mundane western Med itineraries, but they really aren't known for adventure (even on their so-called Adventures by Disney) http://dclnews.com/2012/01/disney-cr...orts-for-2013/

It's clear too that they continue to ignore the European market with the short season, but then again the cost structure and low value and nature of those cruises I suspect doesn't appeal to a broad range of cultures.

exbayern

Seriously? Lewis said it better than I, but other than a few ignorant and overly fearful people, I doubt that is the case. There are often short term deals on cruises in the spring/summer but in your circumstances I don't think that it makes sense. Your family model just isn't suitable for cruising at the moment, as I outlined above. There are cruise lines which do a better job than Disney in the infant area, but even then you will be extremely limited.

'Euro Disney' has not existed since 1994, when the name was (thankfully) changed.

I am not familiar with DLC in London so cannot comment on that, but are you suggesting that a cruise which 'lands' in the UK would be somehow safer? I think that you are mistaken, if that is the case.

Ancien Maestro

With the Olympics on.. a cruise landing in the UK would make the games slightly more accessible being on the right coastline, but probably a few more multiple transfers than hitting up the main train from Paris..

I was just hoping that the prices have come down.. I'm not too worried that the same scenario would happen to us.. but my wife did question how we would swim to shore with two little kids..

exbayern

Based on your new itinerary, and the fact that you really spent 240,000 miles PLUS $3,600 on your flights, I am going to recommend what I said very early on.

Cancel.

Cancel, and rebook something else. You are flying from EWR to FRA to LHR, overnighting in London, and then taking the train to Disneyland Paris.

So that means
- two legs of travel to 3 of the most challenging airports for novice travellers in a completely new environment
- tube or train into London (one very challenging for novices/families/strollers, the other very expensive)
- hotel room in London (expensive)
- Eurostar to Paris/Disneyland Paris (expensive)

Why not book something which takes you directly to Paris? That would cost less than $3,600 in fees, plus you save on the items I listed above, which is at least another $500-700 or so in savings. AND you are not wasting an entire day; if you fly into CDG you are 10 minutes via TGV or 1 hour via navette to Disneyland.

With one child and one toddler, you may even look at booking 2 seats in J and 2 seats in Y.

It isn't just costing you 240,000 miles to get to your first destination - it is costing you 240,000 miles plus $3,600 plus $500-700 plus a day to get to your first destination.

lewisc

I didn't carefully read the earlier posts in this thread. It's not clear (to me) if the flights were actually booked and how they were booked. Did he use airline miles? AMEX MR points to book through AMEX (basically using the points as cash). What kind of promotional rate was used.

I agree with your conclusion. Paying a change fee and changing the flights make a lot of sense. I'm not sure if it can be done. Assuming the OP booked any kind of capacity limited fare availability for 3 (4?) seats on the same flight
for the itinerary you proposed may be impossible.

I don't know how much luggage the OP is planning on taking for a 7 week trip but trying to manage 2 kids and a lot of luggage just through the airport may be an issue. Using trains may not be easy.

Do a search and you'll find a couple of very low cost airlines which fly between major cities in Europe. Check the luggage rules (weight and cost). The cost to check luggage will probably exceed the cost of your ticket.

I think your kids are to young for the kind of sightseeing you're looking to do. JMO but I think you should either scale down your trip or postpone it a few years.