Involuntary Downgrade
 

I am flying with a colleague this Thursday from Nairobi to Dubai, and then onto Gatwick in First class. I just got a call from the EK office saying that they have been advsied due to technical reasons we have been downgraded to business class on the NBO-DXB leg. When I asked her what aircraft they are using, I was told it is a 340-300. I do not know of any EK aircraft with no F on a 340-300. She then said that they were only allowed to sell the business class cabin.

When I asked her for compensation, she said she will have to check. Does anyone know what sort of compensation we can get?

I just checked your itinerary and indeed, both flights out of NBO are operated by 343s with no F cabin.

[KVS Availability Tool 2.2.1/Gold - Amadeus: AUA]
On Friday 7th, they are offering First Class again - strange :confused:

[KVS Availability Tool 2.2.1/Gold - Amadeus: AUA]

I would assume that a 'technical' reason for a downgrade would be that the aircraft scheduled for that flight was tech. and had to be substituted for a 2 class aircraft. This would surely only happen at very short notice. In this case though the aircraft is a 340-300 which are all three class. So the downgrade is a mystery. Did they take your money for a first class ticket? The KVA tool indicates only 2 classes available, even on a three class a/c. Very strange and has me worried as I am booked on LGW/DXB next month and would not wish to be downgraded having spent my own hard earned cash on the trip. I would be interested to hear if anyone knows why or how this sort of thin happens

Money taken
 

Thanks for the replies. The money has been taken, so now it will be an uphill battle with them. I never knew EK had a 2 class 340-300.

This certainly is a mystery :confused:

Sabre shows the First Class bucket.

Amadeus doesn't, and neither does Apollo

[KVS Availability Tool 2.1.0/Gold - Amadeus: AUA]
[KVS Availability Tool 2.1.0/Gold - Sabre: ITN/AXP]
[KVS Availability Tool 2.1.0/Gold - Apollo: ITN/UA/US]
FWIW, the seat map shows the plane to be a 2 class plane with a layout identical to the A330 (in J class at least.)

AB 1 EF 1 JK
AB 2 DEF 2 JK
AB 3 DEF 3 JK
AB 4 DEF 4 JK

Cheers

I got a phone call from Emirates today. We get compensation vouchers for US$175 each. The tickets were US$3200 each.

When Emirates offer upgrades from J to F for $175 accept the compensation. Till then ask for at least $1000 and accept $600.

You are legally entitled to a certain amount compensation (fare difference of the fare you paid and fare you flew + some other money) Full information is in the Emirates conditions of carriage I cannot confirm the correct amount without knowing where you started your ticket.

Cheers

Downgrade
 

It may well be the aircraft is definately a 3 class configuration, however, being used as only a 2 class config. i.e. Business class used as economy as it may be quite oversold. Thus u may well be seated in F class cabin but J class service.

This has happened to me on two occasions. Once on Qantas from SYD-AKL-SYD on 744. Was awsome being in pointy end of a QF 744;) and once on Gulf Air from Sydney to Bahrain. It was GF's 2nd flight out of Sydney when they reintroduced services in Nov 2003.

Enjoy :)
CJ :)

CJ, I had thought of that too, but I don't think it's likely for 2 reasons:

i) EK had passengers already booked and ticketed in F. Why would they only sell 2 classes when it results in only unhappy F class passengers? They could easily just opup the extra J passengers to F (which they do very often.)

ii) The EK seat maps shows a 2 class aircraft.

To the OP: please let us know what happens

Cheers

Devils advocate
 

Good points however,
EK doesnt have a 2 class A340?
As such I guess they r being very efficient and show a 2 class map.

Also, they may have only sold 2 F tckts on that sector and 10 J and over sold Y. It looks that way as the A340 flight is sold out completely?

This is what I got off sabre:

16JULNBODXB@EK
06JUL THU NBO/ Z#3 DXB/#1
13EK 718 J0 C0 Y0 W0 M0 B0 K0 NBODXB 0045 0645 343 0
H0 Q0 L0 T0 V0
14EK 720 J4 C1 Y9 W9 M9 B9 K9 NBODXB 1715 2315 332 0
H9 Q9 L9 T9 V9

We'll know the reason soon enough I guess:)

CJ :)

You may be seated in an EK A343 F seat and think you're in J.

We checked in, and spoke to the Aiport Manager who said that we should renegotiate with EK Nairobi office. I have seen some emails from the EK Nairobi Manager saying that they are re-considering.

The aircraft flown was an A330-200 2 class configuration. J Class was not bad. Decent meal.

The new F class on the 777-300ER is fantastic. Huge screen, flat seat, though it was a bit hard to sleep on. The service was not the usual F class service where course is served after course. They served 2-3 courses at a time, and the hot breakfast was not served seat side, but in a dish from the galley. There are visible changes in the service on EK, and they are not positive.

My parents were downgraded F to J DXB-LHR recently. Compensation was difference in fare paid and a voucher for J return LHR-DXB. No amount of effort persuaded them to offer a return in F. J might sound OK but is not worth much if you are 80+ and the whole point of shelling out for F was to be able to lie flat.
Compensation rules change with departure point - my guess is consumer protection is less robust in Africa than other parts of the world.

2 free tickets
 

Just got back from our trip to a fax from EK DXB office offering 2 return business class tickets to Dubai from Nairobi instead of the US$175 compensation. Great response.

:)

Great!

Checking my trip this am online, my car had gone, called them & my F PRG-DXB, 19th/7 is downgraded :td:, no prior notification from EK, they refuse to rebook to another airline & agents never heard of EU261.04/C/10 :D
This is first booking in my change from LH to EK, not a good start :D

If its a downgrade from F to J why would the car disappear?

The flight that day seems to have been changed to an aeroplane which only has 2 classes which explains the downgrade


I *think* that the downgrade would cause this to occur but , of course, can redo the request

If the airline will not rebook, you could always cancel and rebook yourself on another airline, though it would seem that the EU regulations would apply fpr PRG-DXB

They did not explain why the car & the ability to rebook it disapeared, they had to reinstate it.
If i cancel & rebook it will cost much more & it is not my fault.
EU regs most certainly apply, 75% refund from entire ticket, EK deserve no less for failing to rebook.

Why the ability to rebook online disappeared, I don't know but when a booking is changed it is ime normal for existing chauffeur bookings to disappear

75% of entire ticket is a debateable point; I think it may also be viewed as 75% of the one way fare and where only a partial downgrade occurs ( e.g. if continuing beyond DXB ) can be another issue

I would suggest calling the UK office since they definitely are aware of EU regulations

Just to confirm, this was a paid 1st class ticket and not a ticket upgraded from business class?

Yes, it is paid F PRG-DXB-CPT.
75% only off the one leg, would be no deterrent for the airline.
all the EK staff i have spoken to say their T&C permit this change of equipment & therefore downgrade :td: & they never rebook due to downgrades :td:

75% may be no deterrent , but from some other claims I have read about the airline has only paid 75% in relation to the downgraded section; the rules seem to be slightly less than clear on what the 75% has to be of

I would suggest calling the UK office regarding this or you may end up having to take the airline to court to claim the money

EK UK office could not care less :td:
UK CAA, legal advice line say legislation is clear, section C states 75% of the TICKET cost, should be refunded for involuntary downgrade of +3500 kms, PRG-DXB is 4,461.
You are of course correct, i may have to sue to recover this in full.

Whilst I wasn't involuntarily downgraded for my flight yesterday out of VIE, the aircraft was swapped to an older 77W with Skycruisers instead of the Suites. However, I was informed about this by email and phone call and they offered to re-book me on an alternative flight if I so wished but I didn't take them up on their offer as I hadn't deemed it worth delaying my trip. I am therefore surprised at the PRG office's response to this

I received no notification from EK.
They will rebook me to day before or day after, due to my schedule that is not an option.
They will not rebook me to another airline or from a different location on EK, ie FRA-DXB or ZRH-DXB.

I don't see why they would book you on an alternative airline if they can deliver you to your destination just in a different class of travel.

The re-routing option is dependent on how much you push and if they cave. I had explored an MUC re-route to the 388 but again found it too much of a hassle to be honest. Not sure why you want to travel from PRG to ZRH/FRA,. If you are inflexible to switch to a day prior or after, how can you be so flexible as to switch countries especially ZRH being quite a trek.

Umm.... well... because the passenger had purchased a 1st class ticket and was booked in 1st class

Well.. time to go to moneyclaim.gov.uk I suggest; it is pretty painless

What matters is how the judge interprets it with part of a one way being downgraded; the legislation isn't that wonderful in clear explicit descriptions

No that is fair enough. My point was why would they pay another airline rather than just book him on an alternative date or do a partial refund unless it is possibly a cheaper option for EK. I am also not aware of any other direct flight to DXB of equivalent standard.

Involuntary downgrade DXB-KHI
 

Ok I have a scenario here as well

Flying from DXB-KHI today, when my father checked in at DXB, they informed him that he will have to be downgraded from Biz to Eco because the flight is oversold! He protested but his options were limited as he had to get back tonight.

Now as compensation, they offered him
1. AED 200-300 worth of vouchers for spending at the airport after checking in
2. A free flight coupon for DXB-KHI in Biz.

He asked the agent at the counter if the coupon was for a return flight rather than OW and he was told , Yes. Then she looked puzzled and went to ask her boss who also confirmed it was for a return flight. Now going through the fine print he feels he'll only get a OW free flight but he's not sure, the rules aren't clear on the coupon he's been given.

He sort of feels cheated as he feels lied to but is unsure what he will get

Any body had any experiences ex-DXB of being downgraded due to an oversold flight ?

Cheers

I purchased a FIRST class ticket, nothing FC about EK's responses to date :td:
FRA & ZRH are not far from PRG, & i'm a frequent flyer :D i can spare a couple of hours from my schedule to travel in the class i paid EK for, but not 24 hrs.

Many thanks ^

I suspect that when EK gets the notice of the claim, they will cough up based on legislation and that you won't actually have to go to court unless there is a big disagreement in interpretation between you and EK over what the 75% is of ( full ticket cost, the one way cost, the partial one way cost )

Quite reasonably because Emirates is no longer able to provide that which the customer paid for ; at a minimum they should have been offering the legislated amount since it is an ex-EU journey. Of course, if there is no other 1st class option out of PRG then that option is limited

TO be fair, if it involves sending you business class in the wrong direction in order to get a 1st class flight back again, it wouldn't seem to make sense to offer that anyway; if there are 1st options out of PRG, then seems poor

Would a UK court be interested in an ex-PRG flight? Wouldn't you have to sue EK in the Czech Republic?

Im pretty sure that it can be initiated there especially since the passenger lives in the UK ( according to their FT details shown ) and even though it may have been purchased starting from PRG, doesn't mean that it was sold in Prague

Well if he ticketed online, it is considered a Prague sale. Only offline sales are credited to the selling office. It would be interesting though to see how this would pan out from a UK legislative perspective.

I wouldn't stake someone's, who I like, life on it but my recollection is that it would be actionable in the UK